Attachment Parenting Has Been On My Mind

[MarinaVanessa]

Don't take this the wrong way, Nan, because you DO have a wealth of knowledge and experience that is very valuable.

But in my years on this board I've noticed that you seem to, I don't know, hold a grudge against any of the gentler parenting approaches. Your "old school" style is just the bees knees and nothing else has any merit--that's the vibe I get.

But I'm a young mom (young in years, old in the way my brain works, haha) and I'm down here in the trenches of the modern parenting techniques. So let me tell you that you are only seeing the AP parents who are doing it wrong. You don't see or hear about the ones who are doing it right because THEY ARE NOT THE PROBLEMS. Also, many of them aren't going to be utilizing daycare.

At it's heart, AP is NOT intended to be about "no cry" or sacrificing mom's needs for the happiness of the child. BUT that's how a lot of people interpret it...due to either the "nazi-esque" mommy-bloggers and forums, a certain lack of reading comprehension that only takes in half the information being presented (a problem in many places I've observed, not just parenting related), or due to something else I don't know what.

AP done right does result in happy, well-adjusted kids who can sleep anywhere for anyone, integrate well into daycare or preschool or kindergarten, and have good emotional control and regulation.

But...too many people interpret the basic tenets of AP like the Ten Commandments of Christianity. They treat it like a religion and what does religion do? Even if you're miserable you have to do it, right? Well The nazi-followers of it treat it that way. Thou shalt bedshare (even if it doesn't work for your child). Thou shalt breastfeed (and if you ever put a bottle in that baby's mouth it will never nurse again). Thou shalt never put baby on the floor (or ELLLLSSSSEEE DOOOOOOM). I could go on but I won't.

Because at it's heart...AP is supposed to be responsive to the child. Child sleeps better in a crib? Then he should sleep there. She doesn't like being held? Put her down. You are supposed to pay ATTENTION to your child and learn to read their cues for things (sleep, hunger, desire for time to play on the floor, etc). But people get it wrong and it's largely the Internet's fault.

Through people mentioning it here, I found out about RIE. Are you familiar with it? At it's heart it's more what AP is supposed to be. Responsive, respectful relationship with your baby/toddler that leads to a well-adjusted, independent child capable of great emotional regulation. It stresses what AP does not--that if it doesn't work for mommy or the family it's okay not to do it. Which is awesome! I fell in love, adopted some of the practices and got involved with a few Facebook groups just as it started going practically "viral" and the groups exploded in size....

...and I was very disheartened to watch this responsive, respectful style grow to be some of what I hate about AP type groups and forums, adopting a "NO YOU CAN"T DO ANYTHING DIFFERENT JUST BECAUSE IT WORKS BETTER FOR YOUR CHILD!!!!" type approach. "YOU"RE DOING IT WRONG!" became an overwhelming message and I am now close to leaving those groups.

Anyway. I just want to say that it IS possible to use responsive and respectful methods in daycare. I do it every day. And I am willing to baby wear but haven't in three years because it makes my three year old very upset and jealous. I don't let babies cry uncontrolled for too long (no full on CIO here.) but I do have AWESOME sleepers.

I am sharing this to let you know that i respect you and your views and you have great information to share, but it's not your way or the highway--other things work too. Daycare needs to be approached the way parenting is: what works for the provider, and what works for the children THEY have in care. I could never provide care in the style you do, it wouldn't work for me. And you couldn't do it the way I do. And we're both okay because it works for us.

I don't think that AP/responsive/gentle approaches are what's causing the decline in children's behavior; I think it's bigger than that. Because for every parent striving to be gentle....I spent fifteen minutes trying to invent some statistics for how many are too rough, don't care, etc and couldn't...but it's way more than are trying to be gentle. Sure, AP-Gone-Wrong is a problem, not the basic tenets of "listen to your baby and respect his needs". The internet is more of a problem, with it's endless sources of quick entertainment for moms AND kids, it's scores of "perfect" mommy bloggers. The education system is more of a problem, with it's kids who have terrible reading comprehension and can't process more than 1 word in 3 on the page. The food is a problem, contributing to depression and behavior problems for children AND adults. The healthcare system is a problem, that it can't catch the problems AND TREAT THEM early and affordably enough. Society is the problem and the horrifying disintigration of the "village" it has always taken to raise a child. Fear is a problem, where parents are convinced that they can't take their eyes off their babies for even an instant lest they be snatched by a pedophile in sheep's clothing.

It goes far, far beyond the set of parents who get one parenting style wrong.

I was going to post but Silver said it all. AP has a bad rap because people use it incorrectly. I like RIE and the idea that others think of it "those people that let their baby's cry" or other AP approaches thatvare thought of as "those people that don't let their baby's cry" is saddening. Both are just common sense parenting. IDK know about AP parenting but I'm familiar with RIE and over and over the handbook says to observe the baby's cues and wait, to do what is best for the parent and child ... not to do what is easier and definitely not to prevent the child from crying. It's work, getting to know your child enough to know whether they are crying because they're hurt or hungry or simply because they need to cry and then reacting appropriately.

[nannyde]

Yes. I have no problem wearing a child if it helps them feel safe. We work toward good sleep habits because that is what will help them in the long run, but if it helps them now to wear them while we move that way, so be it.

I also do not believe a young infant (less than 6-8 months) can be "spoiled" by having their needs met. And sometimes that need might just be to be held and be close to an adult.

I don't start threads very often. I think I've started maybe thirty or so in the four years I've posted here. I know that threads can turn into debate or end in discussions that are off shoots of the original op.

I didn't intend an ap debate. I have read and had a zillion of those. I'm really more interested in outcomes. To me, I don't have a problem with any style of parenting except abuse and neglect. I can care for pretty much any kid that comes to me as an infant. They all eventually get on the same feed, sleep, exercise, play cycle. I put them to bed wide awake and a few minutes later they are all out for a deep long sleep.

I think babies are way more alike than they are different. I think it's 95 percent the same barring health issues. They may have different ways of offering up cues but the end game is the same. I don't spend too much energy on approaching them differently. I do get that newbie parents have to learn cues and figure out what to do next. I don't have to learn the baby like they do. I have seen that baby many times before in some other baby or babies. That sends me on a trajectory of care that meets at the same community center.

I don't take the scenic route to the community center. I prefer the direct route. Too much sight seeing is going to delay my arrival to the meeting place and leave the others unattended.

To me, attachment parenting takes the long hard road. It is something to DO along the way and I get that parents are searching for a road map for the journey. I worry about the place they end up being very different than where they intended to go and I worry that in a blink some of the best parts of parenting are not going to be remembered as all that great.

When I look back at my sons infancy I don't remember being tired after he was six weeks old. I don't have a single memory of him hitting me because he didn't. I don't remember tantrums or not being able to go places because he acted like a creep in public. I remember his babyness with very fond memories. He was an easy baby because I didn't allow otherwise.

I am deeply saddened that when ap goes wrong that the answer is that it wasn't done right. I also am unhappy about the concept that the kids behavior is normal. I would rather see the AP community nut up and start addressing the sleep issues and the physical acting out of these kids instead of deeming the issues as normal or a stage.

If you want to know the issues that result from a parenting method ask child care providers and teachers. Ask the receiving adults.

If you want to know what nets great kids ask them that too. This thread begs the question plaguing me as to why these kids, like cream, don't rise to the top and become known as the healthiest, kindest, smartest, most stable and balanced kids to anyone but the parents and the sellers. That bugs me.

[Bookworm]

I get AP for infants. Based on what I've read from PPs, I did some of the same things. But when a child gets older-3 and above- how much is AP as opposed to not wanting the child to tantrum because parents don't know how to deal with it. It's easier to give in than to set rules/boundaries. I think as the child gets older, the parent wants the child to like them which causes the parent to do any/everything to make their child happy.

[midaycare]

If you want to know what nets great kids ask them that too. This thread begs the question plaguing me as to why these kids, like cream, don't rise to the top and become known as the healthiest, kindest, smartest, most stable and balanced kids to anyone but the parents and the sellers. That bugs me.

I really didn't want to post this, because it sounds snotty and horrible, but you keep asking the question, so I will respond. Please forgive how it sounds, because I am not a snotty person. Just stating for your research.

I did AP for my son, now 6. I did not join any forums or communities. As I stated, I took what worked for us and ditched the rest, but I followed it relatively closey, while also following my mother's intuition.

I have the child you are talking about. People stop me all the time - I'm not kidding - to tell me how sweet, kind, well-adjusted, and smart he is. He is a favorite of every teacher he has had, and they all keep in touch with him. His teacher from 2 years ago actually makes "play dates" with him. Yes, I go too. They play at the park for an hour once every three or four months. Nothing weird, I promise. They are just close. His previous daycare providers all keep in touch. Not with me, with him. The secretary and principal of the school love him. Everyone in church loves him. People I don't even know come up to me to give him Easter and Christmas presents because they say he is such a wonderful boy. Caring, giving, sweet.

I actually got into daycare earlier this year because last year a family member paid me a huge compliment. She said, "I would like to know if you would watch my infant daughter for me. From watching your son, I want my daughter to have the upbringing he did, and if I can't be there, then I want you to watch her for me."

So ... Is this the effects of AP? I believe some of it is. My son is very secure because be knew from a very early age that his needs would be met. No need to worry. Does that mean he never has a stress in his life? Nope. We have plenty, and we handle them. In his short life, he has moved 4 times, twice cross country leaving family and friends. It wasn't easy - but he felt safe, even in the midst of loss and confusion.

AP is not a true form of parenting. It is a way to react, most of the time, proactively, to a child. AP must be done also with good parenting, IMO. They are two different things.

I am in no way stating I am the ultimate parent. But something worked well and I did AP, so I don't think it's fair to say that AP kids are spoiled, rotten, and can't adjust.

[daycarediva]

I have lots of thoughts on this....

Regarding Nan's comments about the Hispanic community.....is AP parenting becoming more common? Possibly, especially with particular celebrities like Jessica Alba embracing all things AP/natural mom. However, A LOT of the things that define traditional AP are things that are extremely common in the Hispanic community regardless of AP influence, such as breastfeeding and extended breastfeeding, co sleeping and some forms of baby wearing. These are all things that moms of latin cultures do for various reasons anyway. For instance, many Hispanic families bed share out of necessity not any particular parenting technique. Hispanic moms, as a whole, definitely coddle their infants and toddlers and extended pacifier and bottle use are very common. The difference I think is that as a whole, Hispanic families are larger and they cannot continue the one to one care of small children past the arrival of the next child. It is very common for older siblings to care for younger ones at that point. Traditional gender roles have a strong influence as well so even though moms will often spoil sons, sons are quickly influenced by a culture that tells them "don't cry, don' act like a baby" so by preschool age, many boys are fighting for their "manhood status" while mom is busy with one or two or even three younger siblings. This also means that mom cannot hover due to being out numbered and it is common and excepted to allow children to run a bit wild. Of course, the youngest child of the family is definitely babied the longest which is common for many cultures. My point is AP looks very different when applied by different cultures.

*cringe* as a Hispanic mother (half anyway) those are some pretty broad generalizations/stereotypes.

I am an AP mother. I used slings for awake times when I couldn't hold my child and he/she couldn't be in good supervision. I had my kids in the same room as me until they were older, because I was nervous/lazy/breastfeeding and *I* slept better, but each of my four children had/have their own rooms and their own beds. My child/ren never parented each other, although older girls generally 'help' as helping with family is expected in our family. As far as 'being men' and earning man status, in my family and in the Hispanic families I grew up in, that is about being respectful, responsible, polite and hard working. It is NOT 'don't be a baby, don't cry' AT ALL. Girls are raised to be WOMEN in much the same way. I have VERY VERY rarely heard a child in my family be disrespectful, when they ARE, several family members WILL speak up.

I've never used a pacifier.
My babies went to sippy cups early.
They weren't coddled.

As far as running wild, it's pretty family dependent on what general rules apply. I can't say I feel that MOST Hispanic children are allowed to run WILD. Most Hispanic families ARE large so it's loud and rowdy and they ALL encourage physical activity. My boys are allowed to wrestle with dh's approval and supervision, for example. My cousins children are allowed to wrestle the same way. My nieces aren't allowed to touch each other at all. The kids in MY family are much more respectful compared to the same age kids in Dh's Italian family(dh is half german, half Italian), even though the two families share in the same religious and moral beliefs.

I also have a large extended Hispanic family-- most don't even have a parenting style that they could name, it's doing what they feel is right and what works for them.

[nannyde]

I really didn't want to post this, because it sounds snotty and horrible, but you keep asking the question, so I will respond. Please forgive how it sounds, because I am not a snotty person. Just stating for your research.

I did AP for my son, now 6. I did not join any forums or communities. As I stated, I took what worked for us and ditched the rest, but I followed it relatively closey, while also following my mother's intuition.

I have the child you are talking about. People stop me all the time - I'm not kidding - to tell me how sweet, kind, well-adjusted, and smart he is. He is a favorite of every teacher he has had, and they all keep in touch with him. His teacher from 2 years ago actually makes "play dates" with him. Yes, I go too. They play at the park for an hour once every three or four months. Nothing weird, I promise. They are just close. His previous daycare providers all keep in touch. Not with me, with him. The secretary and principal of the school love him. Everyone in church loves him. People I don't even know come up to me to give him Easter and Christmas presents because they say he is such a wonderful boy. Caring, giving, sweet.

I actually got into daycare earlier this year because last year a family member paid me a huge compliment. She said, "I would like to know if you would watch my infant daughter for me. From watching your son, I want my daughter to have the upbringing he did, and if I can't be there, then I want you to watch her for me."

So ... Is this the effects of AP? I believe some of it is. My son is very secure because be knew from a very early age that his needs would be met. No need to worry. Does that mean he never has a stress in his life? Nope. We have plenty, and we handle them. In his short life, he has moved 4 times, twice cross country leaving family and friends. It wasn't easy - but he felt safe, even in the midst of loss and confusion.

AP is not a true form of parenting. It is a way to react, most of the time, proactively, to a child. AP must be done also with good parenting, IMO. They are two different things.

I am in no way stating I am the ultimate parent. But something worked well and I did AP, so I don't think it's fair to say that AP kids are spoiled, rotten, and can't adjust.

That came off great. No offense taken.

I would love to hear the receiving community tell these stories. I would love to hear that these teachers and church ladies see a TON of kids with your sons outcome. It's become so popular and done by so many for long enough that these kids like yours should be known as a majority and a group. I'm looking for that.

[daycarediva]

As far as my personal AP experience, for me it was more of a natural/loving/responsive parenting. Each child was parented different. They all went to sleep awake, I had them room in with us until they were past the SIDS risk and/or waking at night to nurse, weren't rocked to sleep/nursed to sleep. Were on a flexible schedule. They adjusted well to daycare/group care (first 3 anyway, home with #4, did daycare with him and he was fine). I encouraged independence. I DID focus on their emotional needs, fed on demand to a year, cloth diapered, made my own baby food, and wore them in slings. I would wear them when I was up/busy and couldn't adequately supervise them. It was my stroller substitute, essentially. They had tummy time and played on the floor, too.

I think AP has a bad rap thanks to extremists who use it as an EXCUSE for what is essentially NO CRY, coddling, no discipline, no self soothe, or self help skills NON parenting technique.

[daycarediva]

Also- my kids behavior, self help skills and academics have been praised by every other adult that has them. Teachers, babysitters, coaches and camp counselors. In general, they are respectful, responsible, polite and honest====well beyond their same age peers. Even ds with ASD/moderate functioning says 'yes please, no thank you, yes sir/ma'am, bless you, excuse me, and THANK YOU.' His teachers eat that up. If you want to see excuses for behavior, look to the special needs community. (I'm sure I'll get flamed for this one, YES there are some things these children truly can't control, I mean for the rest of the behaviors that are excused because the parent doesn't know how to/doesn't effectively discipline a special needs child). Temple Grandin has even spoken about the subject.

[SquirrellyMama]

We did an AP style with 2 of our kids. We weren't strict AP. We co slept, bf'ing past one yr old, and used a sling. The kids cried like all kids do. We even did sleep training after a year. I did not have my kids in daycare other than my own. I do think AP parents need to either be at home, or find a daycare that practices it.

My kids are all out going and fun to be around. At least I think they are

I know many parents who are on the other end of the spectrum. I find many of their kids to be too quiet and mousey. Those kids are the ones that drive me nuts. Give me some energy and spirit!

Kelly

[Michelle]

That came off great. No offense taken.

I would love to hear the receiving community tell these stories. I would love to hear that these teachers and church ladies see a TON of kids with your sons outcome. It's become so popular and done by so many for long enough that these kids like yours should be known as a majority and a group. I'm looking for that.

I think it has a lot to do with their personality too
my youngest daughter is exactly like the child just described and I didn't do ap
never even heard of it until I got on this forum ( I breast fed and would probably be considered a helicopter parent) but that's because I have extreme anxiety

her teachers and all adults in her life love her and 3 of my other kids were the same way
two of my other kids... not so much :::: but they were the ones with the highest IQ ..actually one is in the 160 range when tested in Jr high
they are born with a strong will or compliant spirit and we can try to shape it, guide it ( control it) whatever but I truly believe that they are born with it

[midaycare]

That came off great. No offense taken.

I would love to hear the receiving community tell these stories. I would love to hear that these teachers and church ladies see a TON of kids with your sons outcome. It's become so popular and done by so many for long enough that these kids like yours should be known as a majority and a group. I'm looking for that.

Nannyde, I think the larger issue at work here - and I will go screaming about this to my grave - is the use of electronics in the home. Too many, too often. How many times do I see parents with their children, who are on their phones and ignoring their kids so they can update FB or play a game? How many times do I see kids at restaurants given an iPad so they will essentially zone out and "shut up?"

I have an iPhone, and sure, I use it. When my DS isn't around. Family time is family time. I pull out my phone when DS is with DH or in bed. I have an iPad. I use it primarily for work. But I have downloaded educational games for DS. We do those together. Video games are a once a month treat. We have the first Wii system and it was given to us. I have no plans to ever upgrade.

Raising a child is constant work, and it's so easy today for parents to let them play games so parents can have a break after work. But then the child(ren) don't get the much needed interaction with parents and family, as well as the attention they crave.

Parents can use cloth diapers, natural, organic food, and whatever else they want to sound impressive, but it's all shoved down the toilet when kids are given too much time with electronics.

Whew! Rant over.

[midaycare]

I think it has a lot to do with their personality too
my youngest daughter is exactly like the child just described and I didn't do ap
never even heard of it until I got on this forum ( I breast fed and would probably be considered a helicopter parent) but that's because I have extreme anxiety

her teachers and all adults in her life love her and 3 of my other kids were the same way
two of my other kids... not so much :::: but they were the ones with the highest IQ ..actually one is in the 160 range when tested in Jr high
they are born with a strong will or compliant spirit and we can try to shape it, guide it ( control it) whatever but I truly believe that they are born with it

Interesting, and I would like to note that I have extreme anxiety, too. It does make me a bit of a helicopter parent, but I like to think only in the good ways

It would be interesting to see what type of link, if any, is between high anxiety mothers or fathers and the outcome of their children.

And yes, kids are definitely born with their own little personalities!

[Indoorvoice]

I don't start threads very often. I think I've started maybe thirty or so in the four years I've posted here. I know that threads can turn into debate or end in discussions that are off shoots of the original op.

I didn't intend an ap debate. I have read and had a zillion of those. I'm really more interested in outcomes. To me, I don't have a problem with any style of parenting except abuse and neglect. I can care for pretty much any kid that comes to me as an infant. They all eventually get on the same feed, sleep, exercise, play cycle. I put them to bed wide awake and a few minutes later they are all out for a deep long sleep.

I think babies are way more alike than they are different. I think it's 95 percent the same barring health issues. They may have different ways of offering up cues but the end game is the same. I don't spend too much energy on approaching them differently. I do get that newbie parents have to learn cues and figure out what to do next. I don't have to learn the baby like they do. I have seen that baby many times before in some other baby or babies. That sends me on a trajectory of care that meets at the same community center.

I don't take the scenic route to the community center. I prefer the direct route. Too much sight seeing is going to delay my arrival to the meeting place and leave the others unattended.

To me, attachment parenting takes the long hard road. It is something to DO along the way and I get that parents are searching for a road map for the journey. I worry about the place they end up being very different than where they intended to go and I worry that in a blink some of the best parts of parenting are not going to be remembered as all that great.

When I look back at my sons infancy I don't remember being tired after he was six weeks old. I don't have a single memory of him hitting me because he didn't. I don't remember tantrums or not being able to go places because he acted like a creep in public. I remember his babyness with very fond memories. He was an easy baby because I didn't allow otherwise.

I am deeply saddened that when ap goes wrong that the answer is that it wasn't done right. I also am unhappy about the concept that the kids behavior is normal. I would rather see the AP community nut up and start addressing the sleep issues and the physical acting out of these kids instead of deeming the issues as normal or a stage.

If you want to know the issues that result from a parenting method ask child care providers and teachers. Ask the receiving adults.

If you want to know what nets great kids ask them that too. This thread begs the question plaguing me as to why these kids, like cream, don't rise to the top and become known as the healthiest, kindest, smartest, most stable and balanced kids to anyone but the parents and the sellers. That bugs me.

I understand what you are trying to get at. But I think that you aren't going to see those results if parents *think* they're doing AP and tell you they're doing AP when really they haven't a clue. They call it that, but haven't done the research or don't practice it correctly. You keep saying that you don't like the excuse that they are just doing it "wrong" but there is a right and wrong way, which is probably why you don't always see a bunch of awesome kids who were supposedly AP. Just because a parent says and thinks they're doing AP doesn't mean they're doing it. They are calling it that, but coddling and giving into every whim instead. THAT is not AP. So I guess what I'm getting at, is maybe you aren't seeing a bunch of teachers and daycare providers singing the praises of AP kids because many of those kids have not been brought up by actual AP practices. The parents you are describing are not AP parents, they are parents who don't really have a good grasp of child development or good parenting practices. Unfortunately, this is the norm these days because both parents work and don't choose to devote the little time they do have to figuring out how to parent their children.

Like I posted earlier, I did AP, and I was not constantly tired. I didn't give in to their every cry. That is not what AP is about. My children were not spoiled or coddled. They feel safe around me and others because I gave them the confidence that IF they needed me, I was there.

[cheerfuldom]

The whole "NO cry" thing, isn't this going to create a world of little monsters? These children won't know how to deal with disappointment, frustration, hurt feelings, because they're never allowed to experience it. I understand wanting your baby to be happy and content. But this will never teach them to deal with life's hardships. They won't have a concept of fairness because they've never had to compromise. They won't know what to do with themselves on that first day of kinder because they think they should have their own adult who caters to every whim just so there's no crying. They won't know how to negotiate because everything has always just appeared before them on a silver ap platter. They won't know how to handle conflict because they've literally never witnessed such a thing. Please tell me if I'm way off base, but I can't imagine what these children will actually be like when they've never had a single worry or care in the world because ap mommy has always jumped to the rescue to prevent it.

I think a real big part of this is that parents want to accommodate (if that is the right word) an infant's needs and fear the research on crying that says crying damages babies. However, what they miss, is that to my knowledge, there is no research about crying with toddlers and preschoolers. Sure we all know, don't dump your toddler in room alone and hungry and neglected.....thats not cry it out, thats just abuse. But what parents dont get is good research and definitions on what is okay once a child progresses past one year old and what is not okay. They don't know where to draw the line and their parenting techniques don't progress as their child ages.

[Bookworm]

I understand what you are trying to get at. But I think that you aren't going to see those results if parents *think* they're doing AP and tell you they're doing AP when really they haven't a clue. They call it that, but haven't done the research or don't practice it correctly. You keep saying that you don't like the excuse that they are just doing it "wrong" but there is a right and wrong way, which is probably why you don't always see a bunch of awesome kids who were supposedly AP. Just because a parent says and thinks they're doing AP doesn't mean they're doing it. They are calling it that, but coddling and giving into every whim instead. THAT is not AP. So I guess what I'm getting at, is maybe you aren't seeing a bunch of teachers and daycare providers singing the praises of AP kids because many of those kids have not been brought up by actual AP practices. The parents you are describing are not AP parents, they are parents who don't really have a good grasp of child development or good parenting practices. Unfortunately, this is the norm these days because both parents work and don't choose to devote the little time they do have to figuring out how to parent their children.

Like I posted earlier, I did AP, and I was not constantly tired. I didn't give in to their every cry. That is not what AP is about. My children were not spoiled or coddled. They feel safe around me and others because I gave them the confidence that IF they needed me, I was there.