Attachment Parenting Has Been On My Mind

[cheerfuldom]

My fcc program has several AP or what I consider high-maintenance kids right now....I think high-maintenance is becoming the norm?? while I can/do make it work it becomes frustrating at times because I feel so much time is spent telling kids "if you are going make faces like that, go look in the mirror", if you are going to cry-pout like that, go to the cozy cube". "screaming loudly hurts mine and the other children's ears".....YES, these things work with consistency, but some of these kids have massive amounts of tactics to TRY to get their way and it can take some time.....Parents would be in shock to know Johnny and Susie follow the rules till they walk in to pick them up for the day. I saw a grandma the other day and she honestly asked me how I got her grandson dcb4 to stop climbing on her furniture????? He doesn't climb on my furniture, but I really think she didn't believe me. I have had moms call at night to ask why I didn't put johnny's coat on when he went outside because he got cold only for me to reply we didn't go outside but who did the mom believe? Had a client call this past week to ask for an interview for a spot open right now and I set up a time only for her to say "well I can come but I can tell you right now I am not paying till I am ready to pay in August"....so the parent's are high-maintenance, too wanting things their way but she didn't even get the interview with me....I guess I could have introduced her to the cozy cube and let her figure out how she felt! ::

yes but let's not bring in general selfishness and decay of society into the definition of AP parenting and confuse things. There are parents of all types that want special treatment, don't pay bills, etc.......I dont see your comment as staying on topic although i certainly agree that most, if not all of us, are seeing this rise in selfish parents, which of course generally results in selfish kids.

[cheerfuldom]

Cheer great post.

I watched a segment on the View with Dr Sears and he professed that the kids who were the kindest, most compassionate, never bullies, sunflowers pointed toward the sun were the kidsrraised in Attachment Parenting. It really got to me.

I just am stuck with the notion that this style has become so popular for so long that by now those of us who don't profit off of it should be able to spot these kids a mile away. The teacher, the church ladies, the child care providers, the lunch ladies etc... would know these kids as THE most well behaved, kind, gentle, smart, funny, others thinking kids.

I think it is human nature to ASK a parent who has an amazing kid "how did you do it?". Your kid is SUCH a nice kid... tell me how to do THAT.

These kids SHOULD be making an HUGE impression on society. They should stand out and rise above the kids who weren't offered this childhood. We, as child care providers, should be jumping for joy when a potential client tells us they are attachment parents. At parent teacher conferences the teachers should be asking the cream of the crop parents what they did to bring up such phenomenal sun flowers. School principals should be reporting to the school board that they aren't having to deal with behavioral issues from kids parented this way. Test scores should reflect the claimed increase in intelligence.

The parents are saying these kids are stellar children. The ones selling it are saying that. From where I sit, I don't see the folks RECEIVING these kids into society saying it. I wonder why?

By now..... the outcomes of these kids should be as well known as The Kardashians.

I don't think the average provider jumps for joy when the parent claims they are an attachment parent. I don't think coaches appreciate this style of parenting. I can't think of a single receiving group that would choose these kids over non attachment raised kids.

I completely understand the point of your post. The issues raised with AP kids in daycare settings are unique within the AP world. A big part of the issue is that AP parenting and daycare is generally worlds a part and a lot of parents don't see or understand that until it is too late. AP is all about that bond with the primary caregiver, usually mom. They propose the idea that a secure bond will provide a good foundation for the rest of the child's life, which in general is supported by research. I think we can all agree with a child that is bonded to nurturing, loving parents, has a great foundation in life. The debate comes about when we discuss what techniques promote that bond. AP is all about physical attachment with infants and toddlers. Parents are present and available at all times. Like Nan said, it is labor intensive! and definitely does not mesh well with group care. and that is the problem. How do AP parents mesh with a world that is not conducive to the parenting style that their children are used to? A child is of course going to be horribly confused and upset when on the first day of daycare, no one comes when they cry, no one picks them up, no one holds them or lays down with them for nap.....that sort of thing. So what we providers are seeing is the downside to AP parenting because we get the work of trying to transition these kids into care while mom is still nursing all the time and co sleeping at home. It really is not far for the child or the provider and at this point, the parent is probably reaping more "benefits" than the child because they are not having to deal with the fallout of placing an AP baby in a group care setting. In addition, there is a huge money machine behind the promotion of this parenting style by way of books, classes, carriers, breastfeeding supplies, special baby beds that attached to an adult's bed, etc, etc. Parents need to use their critical thinking skills and decipher between marketing and true facts. The Sears machine is a money making machine. Of course it is going to promise the world to parents, because parents buy into it, buy books and join groups and host classes.

[nannyde]

I think a real big part of this is that parents want to accommodate (if that is the right word) an infant's needs and fear the research on crying that says crying damages babies. However, what they miss, is that to my knowledge, there is no research about crying with toddlers and preschoolers. Sure we all know, don't dump your toddler in room alone and hungry and neglected.....thats not cry it out, thats just abuse. But what parents dont get is good research and definitions on what is okay once a child progresses past one year old and what is not okay. They don't know where to draw the line and their parenting techniques don't progress as their child ages.

There isn't any research to show crying damages babies either.

I think one of the unintended consequences is that because the parent doesn't get experience with managing crying with their infant (except to get it before it happens and stop it right away when it does) that by the time the kid turns one the ONLY thing the parent has a skill set in is in stopping it.

The parent hasn't managed their own tolerance. They don't build their own escape hatch. They aren't desensitized to the natural stress of the noise or frustration. They can't have confidence when the kid cries for unreasonable or unsafe demands.

Somehow that natural instinct to be pi$$ed when you are head butted by your toddler gets quelled. The thunder doesn't come to the surface when they kick you in the belly a week after you had their baby brother by cesarean because you can't pick them up. The ding dong that you are doing it wrong when you fell asleep in your two year olds bed while they played till the wee hours of the morning and passed out by the door and the only way you can get out of the room without waking your kid up is to climb out the window.

Those real parental skills don't come to the surface because your care remains at the level of the fragile newborn care.

[cheerfuldom]

I don't think AP has to be synonymous with "no cry". I think that is what most AP parents have taken from this unfortunately and is giving AP parenting a bad name. New parents aren't doing ALL the research and only taking bits and pieces from the whole theory. I consider my parenting style to be AP , but it was my understanding that as an AP parent, I needed to gradually teach my children how to accept no and how to handle situations that made them upset. For the first month, yes, I responded to every single cry. After the first month, I started putting the baby down for a few minutes to do a chore or go to the bathroom and tell her that I would pick her up as soon as I was done. I would always pick the baby up soon after. Slowly, I lengthened the time it took me to do things so that baby could handle being out of my sight for 15 minutes or so. Both of my girls learned that they didn't need to cry because I would be there in a few minutes. I did cosleep at night, but taught them how to sleep in their cribs for naps since I knew they had to go to daycare eventually. Yes, they cried and I responded, but my response was to hush them and put them back to their crib. When researching AP, I didn't associate it with "no cry", but rather with responding when they DO cry right away. The response doesn't have to be to give them whatever they want, but rather to show them that you are there to meet their NEEDS and not necessarily their DESIRES. Both of my children went to a home daycare and did fine even though my provider was not into AP. And now that my girls are 1 and 3, I feel like AP looks much different than it did when they were infants.

Obviously, it will be hard to see positive results from this parenting style while so many parents interpret it and practice it differently.

It sounds like you really took the best from the theory and applied that in age appropriate ways. I do not consider myself AP but I use many of the techniques. I think the approach can bring a lot of positive things into parenting when todays parents are so busy and distracted from their kids. but the key is to know when to progress past infant care and so many parents dont do that. I know a number of really great AP kids. Are they the smartest and the best kids out there? probably not, but they are great kids from great families and it is sad that so many providers only have bad experiences with AP parenting.

[cheerfuldom]

I was going to post but Silver said it all. AP has a bad rap because people use it incorrectly. I like RIE and the idea that others think of it "those people that let their baby's cry" or other AP approaches thatvare thought of as "those people that don't let their baby's cry" is saddening. Both are just common sense parenting. IDK know about AP parenting but I'm familiar with RIE and over and over the handbook says to observe the baby's cues and wait, to do what is best for the parent and child ... not to do what is easier and definitely not to prevent the child from crying. It's work, getting to know your child enough to know whether they are crying because they're hurt or hungry or simply because they need to cry and then reacting appropriately.

I think RIE is another approach that has a lot of great techniques, specifically the promotion of no baby equipment and no propping babies. There is a lot to be gained from the approach. My only issue with RIE is that I find some parents become too un-involved in their attempt to foster independence. I will always step in for issues of safety and my definition of safe is probably more conservative than a lot of RIE moms. anyway, thats a whole different topic.

[Angelsj]

When I look back at my sons infancy I don't remember being tired after he was six weeks old. I don't have a single memory of him hitting me because he didn't. I don't remember tantrums or not being able to go places because he acted like a creep in public. I remember his babyness with very fond memories. He was an easy baby because I didn't allow otherwise.

I understand your purpose in starting this thread, and I will be honest, I don't know a lot about what AP is supposed to be. I also want to say, I respect your abilities as a provider, and I believe you do exactly what you claim to do re: getting them all to one place.
However, (and please forgive my lack of tact here) you have one child. You are in no position to judge that you got an "easy" baby because YOU did anything. If I had only one child, I would easily be able to say the same thing. My oldest (number three in the lineup, but the first I gave birth to) was a breeze. Never cried unless there was a real issue. Slept through the night at 3 months. Never had a tantrum. Took him EVERYWHERE. He was an easy kid, and is still a dream kid @26. Mother's dream.

Then the next one came along. Cried from the time he was six weeks old until he was, well.. to be honest, about 5. Not really, but he was HARD. He did NOT want to be carried or even touched. Would scream for hours at a time (four to six often.) Could be set off on a tantrum because a drawer was open that previously was not, and it would go for hours.
As a daycare provider, you might have been able to get him on a schedule, but as a parent, I was trying to survive. Sleep deprived and often on the edge of patience, I did the best I could do.

Of the eight (the two older boys joined the family a bit later) four of them were pretty easy going. If they were the only kids, I might feel pretty smug about how they did as well. The other four have had some interesting moments. Did things in public I was unimpressed with and things that were downright embarrassing.
What I have learned is to stop judging. Sometimes parents ****. Sometimes, they just need help. Sometimes even really good parents who do all the "right" things get kids who are hard and do things they shouldn't. In the end, what our kids become is often more a matter of their own little personalities and who they need or desire to be, and less about anything we have done, right or wrong.

[Angelsj]

There isn't any research to show crying damages babies either.

I think one of the unintended consequences is that because the parent doesn't get experience with managing crying with their infant (except to get it before it happens and stop it right away when it does) that by the time the kid turns one the ONLY thing the parent has a skill set in is in stopping it.

The parent hasn't managed their own tolerance. They don't build their own escape hatch. They aren't desensitized to the natural stress of the noise or frustration. They can't have confidence when the kid cries for unreasonable or unsafe demands.

Somehow that natural instinct to be pi$$ed when you are head butted by your toddler gets quelled. The thunder doesn't come to the surface when they kick you in the belly a week after you had their baby brother by cesarean because you can't pick them up. The ding dong that you are doing it wrong when you fell asleep in your two year olds bed while they played till the wee hours of the morning and passed out by the door and the only way you can get out of the room without waking your kid up is to climb out the window.

Those real parental skills don't come to the surface because your care remains at the level of the fragile newborn care.

Ok, I will admit I have seen some of this. I don't think we can blame any particular parenting style here, but there is definitely a group of these.

I haven't read all the responses, but I wonder if some of this stems from the first generation of entitled kids who have not had to do anything for themselves, now beginning to raise children, and have no clue how to do so. Are we entering the first generation of children who were raised in a daycare setting and they are assuming daycare (and later school) will handle all the tough stuff, leaving only the overnight storage of the child to the parent?

I also wonder if we have entered a stage where ALL discipline is considered "bad" and parents who don't really understand what that word means.

[nannyde]

Ok, I will admit I have seen some of this. I don't think we can blame any particular parenting style here, but there is definitely a group of these.

I haven't read all the responses, but I wonder if some of this stems from the first generation of entitled kids who have not had to do anything for themselves, now beginning to raise children, and have no clue how to do so. Are we entering the first generation of children who were raised in a daycare setting and they are assuming daycare (and later school) will handle all the tough stuff, leaving only the overnight storage of the child to the parent?

I also wonder if we have entered a stage where ALL discipline is considered "bad" and parents who don't really understand what that word means.

Can I steal "overnight storage"? ::::::

[KiddieCahoots]

I understand what you are trying to get at. But I think that you aren't going to see those results if parents *think* they're doing AP and tell you they're doing AP when really they haven't a clue. They call it that, but haven't done the research or don't practice it correctly. You keep saying that you don't like the excuse that they are just doing it "wrong" but there is a right and wrong way, which is probably why you don't always see a bunch of awesome kids who were supposedly AP. Just because a parent says and thinks they're doing AP doesn't mean they're doing it. They are calling it that, but coddling and giving into every whim instead. THAT is not AP. So I guess what I'm getting at, is maybe you aren't seeing a bunch of teachers and daycare providers singing the praises of AP kids because many of those kids have not been brought up by actual AP practices. The parents you are describing are not AP parents, they are parents who don't really have a good grasp of child development or good parenting practices. Unfortunately, this is the norm these days because both parents work and don't choose to devote the little time they do have to figuring out how to parent their children.

Like I posted earlier, I did AP, and I was not constantly tired. I didn't give in to their every cry. That is not what AP is about. My children were not spoiled or coddled. They feel safe around me and others because I gave them the confidence that IF they needed me, I was there.

.......

Ap is a fad that has gotten out of control by extremist and other issues that don't belong in the same category of ap. The cover of Time magazine is a perfect example....the picture of the defiant mother eyeing down the camera with her hand on her hip, while she pulls her 3yr old son close to nurse, with the caption "Are you MOM enough?"

With any new fad it takes time to iron out the wrinkles. Like the saying goes...."it always gets worse before it gets better".

I recently took a class, classroom behavior management, where they compared different cultural child care styles. USA is one of the only countries that promotes individualism.

Look at our college students who cannot find jobs after graduating and move back home. We are constantly promoting individualism to make yourself shine greater than others for many reasons, including economical. These are the same young people that have begun raising families. You don't think this kind of thought and theory will trickle down to their beliefs with raising a child? Of course it will!

Too many other issues have been added into ap and it's taken the wrong turn in what it was meant to achieve.

I hope to see time help smooth out the true meaning behind ap. Have the extremeness of ap theories die away. And the logic of old style parenting Nannyde had mentioned in a pp, be incorporated into the ap style, to help strengthen it.

[nannyde]

I understand your purpose in starting this thread, and I will be honest, I don't know a lot about what AP is supposed to be. I also want to say, I respect your abilities as a provider, and I believe you do exactly what you claim to do re: getting them all to one place.
However, (and please forgive my lack of tact here) you have one child. You are in no position to judge that you got an "easy" baby because YOU did anything. If I had only one child, I would easily be able to say the same thing. My oldest (number three in the lineup, but the first I gave birth to) was a breeze. Never cried unless there was a real issue. Slept through the night at 3 months. Never had a tantrum. Took him EVERYWHERE. He was an easy kid, and is still a dream kid @26. Mother's dream.

Then the next one came along. Cried from the time he was six weeks old until he was, well.. to be honest, about 5. Not really, but he was HARD. He did NOT want to be carried or even touched. Would scream for hours at a time (four to six often.) Could be set off on a tantrum because a drawer was open that previously was not, and it would go for hours.
As a daycare provider, you might have been able to get him on a schedule, but as a parent, I was trying to survive. Sleep deprived and often on the edge of patience, I did the best I could do.

Of the eight (the two older boys joined the family a bit later) four of them were pretty easy going. If they were the only kids, I might feel pretty smug about how they did as well. The other four have had some interesting moments. Did things in public I was unimpressed with and things that were downright embarrassing.
What I have learned is to stop judging. Sometimes parents ****. Sometimes, they just need help. Sometimes even really good parents who do all the "right" things get kids who are hard and do things they shouldn't. In the end, what our kids become is often more a matter of their own little personalities and who they need or desire to be, and less about anything we have done, right or wrong.

I had one kid but I ran 24/5 daycare with a full boat on both ends. I moved when he was 13 months and got even bigger. I had to get up every hour to two hours EVERY night for 10 years of his life.

I fed the day kids who were in my home after five and the evening kids supper every night. That was 17 suppers average. I did those dishes and cleaned that kitchen.

Nine months before he was born I took a weekend job on an Alzheimer's unit doing Baylors. I worked two double shifts back to back and got home at 10:15 pm . Monday morning I had my first kid come in at 4:30 am. I worked double shifts seven days a week for nine months.

I adopted my son and he was my fourth attempt. I spent every dime of that money trying to become a mother. Once he was born and I got the weekends off, I was in heaven. Having a kid and doing 24/5 was a dream in comparison.

I, like my Grandmother before me, didn't have the luxury of making my kid the center of the universe where all things rotated around. I had to WORK and provide. My Grandma had eleven kids. She had to WORK and provide. She didn't have the luxury to pick one kid and hyperfocus on that kid. There literally was too much to do.

I took the hard road and put my son on the opposite schedule of the kids.while he was a baby. I didn't have a single break because it was the only time I could be alone with him in the midst of making a living. I did what I could and would not have allowed him to take the rest. I had the benefit of a lot of experience but that didn't buy me more hours in the day.

[nannyde]

Cont...

I do take credit for how easy he was. I take credit for how easy the rest of these block headed, floppy eared, squint eyed mooks turn out too. The ones I get from babyness on are easy because of how I care for them. Now, some are harder than others but none are hard in comparison to what it would be if I did similar care as AP.

I'm not saying there aren't medical and psychological illnesses that can affect how a baby is and even.with experience they would be more challenging babies but if you give me a healthy baby they are going to be easy going.

We give way too much credence to the idea that they are all SO different and that somehow gives a get out of jail card for doing poorly with them. If we are going to assume that attachment parenting nets great kids then we admit that how we are with them affects their outcomes. I'm saying the way I am with babies affects their outcomes.

[MotherNature]

My husband & I would definitely be considered AP/ RIE type crunchy parents. We still breastfeed at 3.5, our son still sleeps in our bed, we cloth diaper, we made our own baby food, we did baby led weaning, we wore him everywhere, we try to take his feelings into consideration, instead of 'just b/c I'm the adult'.. etc.. However, my son from day one has had issues..sensory..something hard wired, etc that make him extremely difficult in some areas-sleep and self soothing in particular. CIO would not work for him even if we agreed to it. He was able to cry for hours on end. It was awful. Now then, we didn't decide to raise him AP style b/c of some expert advice...it just was the method that helped the most with him. I parent him completely differently than my older two, who are adults now. I firmly believe that breastfeeding and holding babies is good & necessary, however if you have a baby that cannot self soothe, it's not ideal to try to enroll in group care.That's why I started my own at home. With my son, we really didn't have much of a choice on what methods to use with him. Some of it was yes, so he wouldn't cry...but not because I don't think babies should ever cry.. merely because if his needs weren't met, he was persistent enough to cry for hours until his voice gave out. So, no, we didn't want to deal with that, for his sake or ours. We didn't pick him up just to cater to him for the hell of it. Not trying to sound like 'my special snowflake',but he really is a high need child. He's still exhausting, but it's not b/c of our parenting. It's just how he's been from day one, and we've tried to be receptive to what he needs and what actually works for him.

With all that said about our own child, other people can definitely follow the AP thing too much. I had a family that wanted me to sleep with their daughter and rub her back for half an hour to get her to sleep...while trying to care for others..not going to happen here. Same family always praised for every single little thing. Way to eat that carrot! Good sharing! Wonderful gentle hands with the kitty...etc...ad nauseum. It got old real quick. Precious pookie would run all over and never sit to eat, try to graze all day, was not a good sharer...b/c they didn't believe in the word no. Heh-my son hears no all the time. I see it a lot that I think moms especially, try and have a front of perfect patient parent, no matter the parenting style. I see moms who spank, moms who don't, moms who wouldn't dare let something non-organic touch her kid's lips, and moms who feed their kids cheetos for breakfast all do that constant praise thing. THAT'S annoying.

[Angelsj]

Can I steal "overnight storage"? ::::::

:: Definitely. Good trade for sqoozed.

[Angelsj]

Cont...

I do take credit for how easy he was. I take credit for how easy the rest of these block headed, floppy eared, squint eyed mooks turn out too. The ones I get from babyness on are easy because of how I care for them. Now, some are harder than others but none are hard in comparison to what it would be if I did similar care as AP.

I'm not saying there aren't medical and psychological illnesses that can affect how a baby is and even.with experience they would be more challenging babies but if you give me a healthy baby they are going to be easy going.

We give way too much credence to the idea that they are all SO different and that somehow gives a get out of jail card for doing poorly with them. If we are going to assume that attachment parenting nets great kids then we admit that how we are with them affects their outcomes. I'm saying the way I am with babies affects their outcomes.

No. I give credence to the fact that they are all SO different. But that by no means give a free card to not do your best with your child. I am saying there are times that we do our best and it is not always how we would like the outcome to be. I am also saying sometimes it is really HARD on the way there.

If you were to judge my parenting by my current 14 yo I am an abject failure. He talks back, challenges everything we say, even threatened to hit my husband. One of us accompanies him to his baseball because he cannot be trusted to not attack one of the other kids, often for the most minimal of insults. But we are not done, and we still try. But it is hard.

If you were to judge my parenting by the child I mentioned before (second born, the one who challenged us throughout his childhood with even worse issues than the current child) I am a success. He is engaged, on his last year of college, and plans to be a physics teacher for high school. He is polite, intelligent, and caring, and has a future.

I am sure you do well with your kiddos, both dck and your own. I like to think the kids who come through here are better for being here. But it isn't your style or mine that makes them so. It is the fact that we care, pay attention, understand and respond to their cues and use that stepping stone to guide them into their best selves. That is what benefits your kids and mine.

[preschoolteacher]

I was an AP mom. My son at two years this month has still not slept through the night. I weaned him at 20 months cold turkey because he began constantly demanding to nurse, and I could not nurse a toddler eight times or more a day while running a daycare!

He's fantastically smart. Speaks in complete sentences, makes comparisons, talks about abstract concepts, plays long, complex imaginative games. His behavior is no better or worse than a typical two year old, though he's never hit anyone and doesn't throw temper tantrums often or for long.

I'm so grateful I began the daycare when he was 14 months. If I hadn't, he would certainly be spoiled and entitled. I've had to say no, enforce rules, and stop catering to his every cry. We are working to undo the bad sleep habits I helped him develop as an infant.

Next baby, I'll do things differently