Really BAD Kid...

[Country Kids]

I for one would like to see you stay-

I have personally noticed a trend lately on people focusing on how people word things, what certain people post and others not, but in the end really not focusing on the issue in the end.

More posters are getting called out on things here lately for things that weren't the issue they were posting about and then not returning. I feel its either because they no longer feel comfortable or made to feel like they are a horrible person.

This is not a "status" type forum-we all need to remember this. We are on a equal playing field, all on the same level, and all in the same profession. The point is to bounce ideas off each other, ask for advice, share stories, etc. Not to put down, jump all over for each other, make people feel they are the worst person, not a good provider, etc.

Each of us are doing the best we can do and if we are looking for advice we come here expecting some help, not to be torn down and hearing everything we are doing wrong. It goes both ways-when people started telling a provider how wrong they are doing things, they look no better then the person that may have used the "wrong wording" on something.

Please remember, when someone is posting here looking for advice there is one of them and many ofus returning on us. If post after post back is negative is seems like an attack to the original poster-not cool.

[Angelwings36]

The entire time he's here he is hurting someone, tearing up something, terrorizing an animal, climbing on stuff, waking up someone, running in circles, just absolutely DRIVING ME NUTS. I literally cannot take my eyes off him for a second! He is just so naughty. I have never seen anything like it! He's not happy unless he is bothering someone else. He climbs out of his high chair. He pulls the cat's hair out by the handful. He wakes up his sister every single time she tries to take a nap. He hits. He bites.

I just don't know what else to say... I can't take it much longer

Advice? Suggestions??

The 16 month old that you are having problems with is not "bad" or "naughty" he is HIGH ENERGY and CURIOUS and this is very normal for this age. I would be looking at ways to control his curiousity with the environment he is in. Don't leave out items that he can tear, don't allow the animals to be around him, limit things he can climb on, etc... If he is hurting someone stop him every single time and remove him from the situation. How is he waking others up? How is he climbing out of his highchair if he is secured in?

If he is biting I would shadow him for x amount of time and this would be my main reason to put the family on probation. This is something that does need to be addressed with his parents.

[cheerfuldom]

That is what is confusing me as well. :confused:

Keeping the DCK's safe is their mother's responsibility. NOT yours.

I am just having a really hard time understanding how a mother could allow her own child to be the one who is getting the short end of the stick in this situation.

OP, are you at all concerned about how your own son is doing in this situation? He looks to YOU for protection, comfort and security and you are insteading making those things a priority for another child.

Several posters have brought this up and you have yet to address this line of thinking.

FWIW~ WORST mistake I ever made in child care was getting emotionally invested in saving a child. The intentions were good from the start but the ending was bad. VERY bad.

Please put YOUR child first.

I made this same mistake too unfortunately. i put another childs needs above my own child and did not come to my senses until my daughter had huge visible welts all over her back from this daycare kid sitting on her and punching her until we literally had to rip him off. my daughter was crying but she didnt come to me for comfort....unfortunately i had taught her that i would take care of the daycare kids first. this was a huge wake up call and i termed THAT day. i made a horrible mistake, please dont make the same one OP

[cheerfuldom]

Thanks for informing me that I'm an awful person & horrible at everything I do. That's super!! All I asked for was advice on what to say to the mother, not personal judgements on my parenting style or how I run my daycare. Hope y'all have a good day. I've had enough. I've asked Michael to delete my account.

you are being over dramatic at this point in my opinion. no one said you were awful at everything you do. if you want advice on what to tell them mom, here it is

"DCM, I can no longer meet your child's needs. Here is notice of my termination of care"

[Crazy In Mo]

And just so everyone is aware, I only used the word "bad" on here...not to his face, not to his mom, NOWHERE ELSE, EVER. I'm not quite the monster you have made me out to be. But thanks for ruining my morning & making me feel like I'm going to throw up!

I've noticed this forum is really good about picking apart a post! It's sad that she was made to feel so bad when she just wanted help. Obviously she has a huge heart to be wanting to keep the little girl safe. It just really ****s that people can't come to this forum in a moment of frustration with out worrying if the word bad" is going to be taken to extremes.

When I first read the original post I thought, O dang....that poor girl is stressed. Never did I think.. Well what a horrible person for using the word bad instead of challenging! It just ****s the way things are picked at here. I learned it very early on! Don't get me wrong I love coming here and reading other people posts, but I ALWAYS second guess myself on what I should or shouldn't post here.

[canadiancare]

Understood, Country Kids- however if we are all in the same profession then we also need to look out for the credibility of this profession. Caregivers need to be adults who understand how children develop and our role in this development. It is perfectly reasonable, in my opinion to question someone's use of words like "bad" in reference to any child or to wonder how someone can be at the playground for 30 minutes before a child (not even the caregiver themselves) notices that one of the charges is missing. These are the types of things that need to be highlighted as unacceptable if we are to be taken seriously and valued in society.

I do agree that at times people are quick to point fingers in an aggressive and non-helpful manner but when the community is being supportive and attempting to educate the OPs they shouldn't resort to tantrums and "I'm leaving and never coming backs" as it doesn't help their cause.

[Angelwings36]

Yes, he does sleep...A LOT.
I told the mom I need to talk to her tomorrow at pick up time.
Yes, he climbs out of high chair, even when strapped in. I don't know how he does it!
He eats almost anything. He is a good eater.

In the past when I have dealt with a child with behavior like this, after one or two times or redirection or separation, they get the point. This boy DOES NOT GET IT. He just does the same stuff over & over & over...and I NEVER let him get away with it.

For example, every single day, without fail, he runs laps around my downstairs area. Runs. And runs. And runs. Circles! All day! I redirect him. It doesn't work. I separate him from the area. It doesn't work. I contain him in his high chair. It doesn't work. I sit him on the couch for a mini time out. It doesn't work. I speak to him, on his level, in a firm voice. It doesn't work. NOTHING WORKS. Finally I moved my furniture around so he couldn't run in circles. His play area was cut in half. I didn't know what else to do. It was a total pain (and not fair) for the other people in my house. It seemed to work for him though. Tonight I used my super yard in a straight line to block off one doorway & a baby gate in the other doorway, instead of moving all the furniture again. He ran, and ran, and ran, and ran from gate to gate. Back & forth. Over & over. What more can I do??

If y'all want to think I'm an awful person for saying he is "bad"...go right ahead. At this point it doesn't bother me. He has bitten another child about 100 times since he started coming here. The biting, the running, the hitting, the standing on toys...it's becoming a safety issue & I'm just looking for some advice from fellow providers. If you don't have anything constructive to say, how 'bout you just skip this post? There's enough negativity in the world today...can't we at least be nice to each other on here?

Daycarelady if he has bit another child about 100 times this is not ok and something should have been done the 2nd, 3rd, 4th bite and not after 100 bites. How is the parent of the child that has been biten over 100 times reacting to this? I would be livid if I was that parent. Honestly it sound like you need to term even if you can't financially afford to do so. You just can not provide the quality care this child needs and that is not your fault. It is also obvious that you feel very negative towards this child and he will pick up on that and that is not fair to him.

[Country Kids]

you are being over dramatic at this point in my opinion. no one said you were awful at everything you do. if you want advice on what to tell them mom, here it is

"DCM, I can no longer meet your child's needs. Here is notice of my termination of care"

I don't feel she is being dramatic at all. Reading some of these posts even made me go whoa-whats going on here.

Remember she was looking for a solution not being told what she is doing is wrong and messed up.

[countrymom]

Everyone gave you great advice and I don't have much to add in that respect except that at some point you need to do what's best for everyone (you, your child, and this little boy). Sometimes parents need some kind of wake up call to realize that something more needs to be done for their children to provide for them and I really think that's what this little boy's mother needs.

My older dd has quite a personality and my husband and I have said frequently that we think she would not have lasted at a center or in home daycare. She started throwing tantrums at around 6/7 months old (yes, it was that young) and started hitting at 8 months old. The hitting really started to taper off once she got to be around the age of 2 1/2. Her biggest dilemma was that she felt the only way to voice her frustration was through violence and as soon as she built up her language skills, she was really able to tone it down. We still have a LOT of issues with her and are constantly trying new "techniques" to get her to cooperate. The biggest thing that I'm learning is that she responds to negativity VERY poorly (including being told what to do, discipline, removal of privileges, etc.). If we add a positive spin to something, she is much more apt to comply. The problem with this is that we often find ourselves bribing her to do the most basic of things (like using a sticker chart for every time she cleans up her toys, goes to the bathroom alone and goes to sleep in less than 2 hours). On the other hand, it does work wonderfully and limits the drama.

Daycare: I know you mentioned that putting this boy in a room was probably not the wisest choice, but I can say from the perspective of someone who has a difficult child that this is sometimes the only thing we can do. I called my mom just last week because of my dd (who is now 3 yo, almost 4). She wakes up in a terrible mood all of the time and it frequently takes nearly 2 hours for her to return to normal. In the meantime, she throws things, screams at everyone (waking up the whole house), pushes and even hits people on occasion, etc. She also acts like this when you ask her to clean up, go to the bathroom, get dressed, put on her shoes, eat, walk faster when we are out and about, and when she is nearing nap or bed time (due to exhaustion). In fact, the only time she does not act like a demon is when we have given her food she really likes and when she is having fun playing. Re-directions rarely work with her anymore as we have been using them on her for 3 years now and she knows better. She does not stay in time out, spankings do not work, and I don't feel like we ought to bribe her every day to not be grumpy. When she really gets out of line, the only solution is to put her in her room until she calms down. Yes, sometimes it takes her 30-45 minutes to stop screaming and pounding on the door, but I've found it does make her improve for a few days. Call me cruel, but having to deal with a perpetually angry child day in and day out is extremely EXHAUSTING and emotionally taxing. The craziest thing is that she acts great when other people watch her or when we are out in public!
I am eager to see if anyone has good suggestions as I'm always experimenting with our dd. I can definitely sympathize with the original poster and the boy's mother. I wish all children were born somewhat cooperative, but some of us are blessed with the crazy ones . I wouldn't change it for the world because for every extreme low she has given us, she has given us an equally extreme high. I suppose it's the nature of the beast ::.

ok, I'm going to tell you what the problem is. She is beating you down to get her way. I have one like this, and she is 12 now.

1.you need to get her up every day at the same time, if she is a bear then so be it, but by getting up every day her body will be use to it. It consistency.

2.as for the dressing and toileting, if you need be, then either let her pick her clothes out or you dress her. I found that I had to give my dd either a or b to pick from nothing more otherwise there are too many choices and she goes crazy. I've had to hold her on my lap and physically dress her too.

3.stop putting her in her room. THIS IS THE WORST THING EVER. Children will start to associate their bedrooms as a bad place, this goes along the line of playpens and cribs. Also, she will start to destroy her room and then what, you'll be back to square one.

4.you need to have a time out spot or area. For my dd we used a stool. It sat in the middle of the room away from everything. She was to sit there and she could scream and yell and spit (yes she would spit at us) and when she was done she could get off. At first she would get off, but I would put her back over and over again. Remember your the parent, you are the one in charge not her. I don't reason with children, she was one that you couldn't do it, you couldn't redirect her either, you needed to show her that you were bigger and stronger and that you wouldn't tolerate her nonsense.

5.also, I found that we had to have a rigid routine for a while. We had to go to bed everyday at a certain time, eat at a certain time.

6.I've been there and done a workshop on kids like her (they call them spirited, I call them something else: but its gotten so much better. We still have days but nothing like before. I also found that asking them why they are screaming works too. I would hold them on my lap and make them tell me why or till the stop screaming. Yes its exhausting but it will get better. We always laugh that dd is going to be a great lawyer some day because she doesn't know the work "no"

[My3cents]

Ok, wait...I need some clarification here....

You are allowing your own child to be abused at the hands of another because YOU care more about the DCB's sister?!

You have made it your life's mission to keep this child safe at the expense of your own child's safety and physical well being?

I am sorry, but that is kind of messed up. I really don't know how to say that any nicer.

Sometimes I read and respond and then I end up posting several times......until I get to the core of the problem/issue.

I agree here with BC Why would you let your child be bit over and over again. Your sacrificing your own child, at the mercy of your daycare kid to save the kids sister. Messed up!

[My3cents]

You could have a talk with mom and see if she agrees in having him evaluated, I read your post and I feel you are talking about my own child My child has been my headache in my DC and it ended up being that he has sensory issues and being so young he does not know how to show them or control what he is feeling. If this is the case, don't be surprised if mom tells you he is not like that at home, my son is not like that during non DC hours, but when there are kids around + noise+ anything around him that could possibly bother him he would react bullying other kids, destroying stuff and just being a very difficult child to deal with, got help from OT and Special Ed teachers and he is doing lot better now.

Sounds like your child is having a hard time sharing Mom, home, toys, etc...

Glad he is doing better-

[Angelwings36]

no this does not make sense

you have put another child ahead of your own child. It is the mothers responsibility to find appropriate care for both her children in a safe environment with providers who can handle both of them. It is YOUR job to make sure your own childs needs are met, including him/her having a home where there is not a daycare kid bullying them, exhausting mom, taking over the house. Imagine how the other kids feel, knowing that this other rowdy kid gets so much of the attention and the rest of the kids have to split the leftovers. You arent doing anyone any favors by trying to tough it out. Are you willing to sacrifice the environment for all the other kids for the sake of just one?

the mom has basically said that she cant handle him and cages him like an animal in his room at home. you know how caged exotic animals act at the zoo? they go crazy and they also go from one side of the cage to the other, over and over and over....just like this little guy running from wall to wall and running in circles all day. He is being treated like an animal at home and no surprise, he is acting like one. You cannot replace his mom. SHE needs to step up and figure out a way to deal with this appropriately. Nothing is going to change until SHE changes. We aren't miracle workers, OP. I dont believe you can change this on your own.

I would have one last talk with mom and let her know that if you cant work together with a plan and see some progress, you will continue taking care of big sis only, not little brother. If she chooses to remove sis from your care, that is HER choice.

as for the not responding from this little guy, it is probably due to environment. he is left alone and unattended for long periods of time from the sounds of it (in his room). he probably is lacking attachment and appropriate communication skills which should be learned thru interaction with his parents.

I 100% agree!!

[Willow]

Time for the kiddo to go.

If another child is hurting your child, it's time for them to go.

If the parents aren't doing anything, or are doing everything to make it worse (who spanks a baby or shuts them in their room????), it's time for them to go.

If your feelings start to turn from a place of constructive criticism and problem solving to utter frustration, (I personally have no problem with using the word "bad" around colleagues, if it's that bad call it what it is kwim?) it's time for them to go.


*IF*

- you can completely keep your child separate from this one (and I mean ZERO direct interaction) then you might consider keeping them.

- mom agrees to cease all corporal/punitive punishment and take some parenting classes that will teach her better ways to handle her child then you might be able to consider keeping them. At this age it's flat out abuse and I'd be letting her know it if she doesn't quit I'd be obligated to report it.

- mom agrees to get her child evaluated by both a pediatrician AND a child psychologist/therapist/developmental specialist then you might be able to consider keeping them.

- you can find your way back from how at the end of your rope you are then you might be able to consider keeping them.



Without a minimum of those stipulations met it's not right to you, your family or the child to continue on.

Guaranteed this WILL get worse the older and bigger he gets without some serious interventions here. He is already a serious liability to you, your business, your family and all of the other kids in your care. I get that you care about his sibling but she can not be the only priority here.

[Country Kids]

I am asking all the responders on here to please, please stop telling the op that the situation is "messed up".

You all tell her that this child can't be "bad" but then you turn around and tell her what she is doing is "messed up". How is that being nice? If you need to say something, please think of the tone, delivery, and wording that you are using also. I see no difference in what people called her out on, then what you are doing.

Constructive critisism is worded so that the person hopefully won't be offended but something comes out of it.

Remember the saying "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all".

Bravo to the posters that shared their stories with the op! Maybe you guys could pm each other and bounce ideas off each other.

[My3cents]

That is what is confusing me as well. :confused:

Keeping the DCK's safe is their mother's responsibility. NOT yours.

I am just having a really hard time understanding how a mother could allow her own child to be the one who is getting the short end of the stick in this situation.

OP, are you at all concerned about how your own son is doing in this situation? He looks to YOU for protection, comfort and security and you are insteading making those things a priority for another child.

Several posters have brought this up and you have yet to address this line of thinking.

FWIW~ WORST mistake I ever made in child care was getting emotionally invested in saving a child. The intentions were good from the start but the ending was bad. VERY bad.

Please put YOUR child first.

Care to share BC? You can private me , just remind me to look at messages.