Really BAD Kid...

[jokalima]

You could have a talk with mom and see if she agrees in having him evaluated, I read your post and I feel you are talking about my own child My child has been my headache in my DC and it ended up being that he has sensory issues and being so young he does not know how to show them or control what he is feeling. If this is the case, don't be surprised if mom tells you he is not like that at home, my son is not like that during non DC hours, but when there are kids around + noise+ anything around him that could possibly bother him he would react bullying other kids, destroying stuff and just being a very difficult child to deal with, got help from OT and Special Ed teachers and he is doing lot better now.

[spud912]

Everyone gave you great advice and I don't have much to add in that respect except that at some point you need to do what's best for everyone (you, your child, and this little boy). Sometimes parents need some kind of wake up call to realize that something more needs to be done for their children to provide for them and I really think that's what this little boy's mother needs.

My older dd has quite a personality and my husband and I have said frequently that we think she would not have lasted at a center or in home daycare. She started throwing tantrums at around 6/7 months old (yes, it was that young) and started hitting at 8 months old. The hitting really started to taper off once she got to be around the age of 2 1/2. Her biggest dilemma was that she felt the only way to voice her frustration was through violence and as soon as she built up her language skills, she was really able to tone it down. We still have a LOT of issues with her and are constantly trying new "techniques" to get her to cooperate. The biggest thing that I'm learning is that she responds to negativity VERY poorly (including being told what to do, discipline, removal of privileges, etc.). If we add a positive spin to something, she is much more apt to comply. The problem with this is that we often find ourselves bribing her to do the most basic of things (like using a sticker chart for every time she cleans up her toys, goes to the bathroom alone and goes to sleep in less than 2 hours). On the other hand, it does work wonderfully and limits the drama.

Daycare: I know you mentioned that putting this boy in a room was probably not the wisest choice, but I can say from the perspective of someone who has a difficult child that this is sometimes the only thing we can do. I called my mom just last week because of my dd (who is now 3 yo, almost 4). She wakes up in a terrible mood all of the time and it frequently takes nearly 2 hours for her to return to normal. In the meantime, she throws things, screams at everyone (waking up the whole house), pushes and even hits people on occasion, etc. She also acts like this when you ask her to clean up, go to the bathroom, get dressed, put on her shoes, eat, walk faster when we are out and about, and when she is nearing nap or bed time (due to exhaustion). In fact, the only time she does not act like a demon is when we have given her food she really likes and when she is having fun playing. Re-directions rarely work with her anymore as we have been using them on her for 3 years now and she knows better. She does not stay in time out, spankings do not work, and I don't feel like we ought to bribe her every day to not be grumpy. When she really gets out of line, the only solution is to put her in her room until she calms down. Yes, sometimes it takes her 30-45 minutes to stop screaming and pounding on the door, but I've found it does make her improve for a few days. Call me cruel, but having to deal with a perpetually angry child day in and day out is extremely EXHAUSTING and emotionally taxing. The craziest thing is that she acts great when other people watch her or when we are out in public!

I am eager to see if anyone has good suggestions as I'm always experimenting with our dd. I can definitely sympathize with the original poster and the boy's mother. I wish all children were born somewhat cooperative, but some of us are blessed with the crazy ones . I wouldn't change it for the world because for every extreme low she has given us, she has given us an equally extreme high. I suppose it's the nature of the beast ::.

[My3cents]

The entire time he's here he is hurting someone, tearing up something, terrorizing an animal, climbing on stuff, waking up someone, running in circles, just absolutely DRIVING ME NUTS. I literally cannot take my eyes off him for a second! He is just so naughty. I have never seen anything like it! He's not happy unless he is bothering someone else. He climbs out of his high chair. He pulls the cat's hair out by the handful. He wakes up his sister every single time she tries to take a nap. He hits. He bites.

I just don't know what else to say... I can't take it much longer

Advice? Suggestions??

He is not bad- He is learning.

Separate him, get one of those gates and make a play area just for him. If he try's to get out, put him back in, put toys he will like in there and tell the other children to not bother him. Then when he can handle the stimulation of the other kids more, integrate him into the group a little at a time.

Take time to teach him, gentle touch, no hurting your friends.

Be careful with labeling a child "bad"

If all else fails, then let him go and find a better fit for your program

Best-

[My3cents]

Yes, he does sleep...A LOT.
I told the mom I need to talk to her tomorrow at pick up time.
Yes, he climbs out of high chair, even when strapped in. I don't know how he does it!
He eats almost anything. He is a good eater.

In the past when I have dealt with a child with behavior like this, after one or two times or redirection or separation, they get the point. This boy DOES NOT GET IT. He just does the same stuff over & over & over...and I NEVER let him get away with it.

For example, every single day, without fail, he runs laps around my downstairs area. Runs. And runs. And runs. Circles! All day! I redirect him. It doesn't work. I separate him from the area. It doesn't work. I contain him in his high chair. It doesn't work. I sit him on the couch for a mini time out. It doesn't work. I speak to him, on his level, in a firm voice. It doesn't work. NOTHING WORKS. Finally I moved my furniture around so he couldn't run in circles. His play area was cut in half. I didn't know what else to do. It was a total pain (and not fair) for the other people in my house. It seemed to work for him though. Tonight I used my super yard in a straight line to block off one doorway & a baby gate in the other doorway, instead of moving all the furniture again. He ran, and ran, and ran, and ran from gate to gate. Back & forth. Over & over. What more can I do??

If y'all want to think I'm an awful person for saying he is "bad"...go right ahead. At this point it doesn't bother me. He has bitten another child about 100 times since he started coming here. The biting, the running, the hitting, the standing on toys...it's becoming a safety issue & I'm just looking for some advice from fellow providers. If you don't have anything constructive to say, how 'bout you just skip this post? There's enough negativity in the world today...can't we at least be nice to each other on here?

These behaviors are all common for this age. Boys like to run, get him outside to run and burn off energy. I would make him your shadow. It should bother you to call a child "bad". Labeling kids is a big no in this field. I understand what your saying but you should be careful with that term. Bad is a strong word. No reason he should have bitten another child 100 times, once maybe twice would have been enough to know to separate him so that this doesn't happen again. AT this age your eyes have to be planted on the child all the time, they are learning what is right and what is wrong and it may take over and over again for this to sink in. IF a toy is being stood on, take it out for a while and every time. I have had to move my room around many times to make it work for my group or for one child that was having issues. Another thing could be that the rules at home are very different from the rules at daycare, none the less kids learn quick, just be consistent.

I don't think anyone has been negative to you here, we are all entitled to our opinions, be grateful for all the advice you are given, because someone took the time out of their day to help you, even if you didn't want to hear it. Calling a child that is 16 months old "bad" is wrong. All of the issues you listed are normal for that age. Knowing how to deal with those issues is key, and when you can't then it is time to move the child on to either another daycare or appropriate help. Sometimes we don't mesh with a child, find another child and let this one go if that is the case.

Best-

[My3cents]

Yes, he does sleep...A LOT.
I told the mom I need to talk to her tomorrow at pick up time.
Yes, he climbs out of high chair, even when strapped in. I don't know how he does it!
He eats almost anything. He is a good eater.

In the past when I have dealt with a child with behavior like this, after one or two times or redirection or separation, they get the point. This boy DOES NOT GET IT. He just does the same stuff over & over & over...and I NEVER let him get away with it.

For example, every single day, without fail, he runs laps around my downstairs area. Runs. And runs. And runs. Circles! All day! I redirect him. It doesn't work. I separate him from the area. It doesn't work. I contain him in his high chair. It doesn't work. I sit him on the couch for a mini time out. It doesn't work. I speak to him, on his level, in a firm voice. It doesn't work. NOTHING WORKS. Finally I moved my furniture around so he couldn't run in circles. His play area was cut in half. I didn't know what else to do. It was a total pain (and not fair) for the other people in my house. It seemed to work for him though. Tonight I used my super yard in a straight line to block off one doorway & a baby gate in the other doorway, instead of moving all the furniture again. He ran, and ran, and ran, and ran from gate to gate. Back & forth. Over & over. What more can I do??

If y'all want to think I'm an awful person for saying he is "bad"...go right ahead. At this point it doesn't bother me. He has bitten another child about 100 times since he started coming here. The biting, the running, the hitting, the standing on toys...it's becoming a safety issue & I'm just looking for some advice from fellow providers. If you don't have anything constructive to say, how 'bout you just skip this post? There's enough negativity in the world today...can't we at least be nice to each other on here?

If this was working, go back to it, yes it is a pain for a while but until he can understand better I would go back to this. He might be over stimulated. Have you checked his hearing, to see if he is hearing you?
Good luck it is hard when you have a child that grates your every last nerve.
Best-

[My3cents]

hey...a little consolation

Found one of my closest friend's sons on top of a pile of oil cans and the home store once. She found him on top of the fridge one Sunday morning into the Teddy Grahams...

He's 19 now, in graduated with honors, football player, and a great young man, in college. Just because they are "a handfull" at 2 doesn't mean they stay that way...

I love thislovethis so so true

[My3cents]

One of the biggest reasons kids have challenging behaviors is due to the environment. There must be something going on within his environment that is causing him or allowing him to behave as he does.

Either there is too little or too much stimulation. He could be overwhelmed or he could be bored silly every day.

In order to find the root of his behavior, you will need to spend some time really observing him. Find out what sets him off, what holds his attention and what doesn't.

He isn't bad. I think he is simply not engaged.

If you really feel terming is not an option then I think that you will need to devote some serious time and attention to helping him fit into the world around him in a much better way than he does currently.

If you don't think you can do that then you need to term him. You owe it to this child to do what is best for HIM.

It doesn't automatically make you a bad provider if you termed him because he required more care and attention than you can give him.

I would respect a provider who put the emotional well being of a child above her own financial needs.

OP This is great advice and I agree and its not easy to do but sometimes we have to stand back and do what is best for all.

[Meeko]

no this does not make sense

you have put another child ahead of your own child. It is the mothers responsibility to find appropriate care for both her children in a safe environment with providers who can handle both of them. It is YOUR job to make sure your own childs needs are met, including him/her having a home where there is not a daycare kid bullying them, exhausting mom, taking over the house. Imagine how the other kids feel, knowing that this other rowdy kid gets so much of the attention and the rest of the kids have to split the leftovers. You arent doing anyone any favors by trying to tough it out. Are you willing to sacrifice the environment for all the other kids for the sake of just one?

the mom has basically said that she cant handle him and cages him like an animal in his room at home. you know how caged exotic animals act at the zoo? they go crazy and they also go from one side of the cage to the other, over and over and over....just like this little guy running from wall to wall and running in circles all day. He is being treated like an animal at home and no surprise, he is acting like one. You cannot replace his mom. SHE needs to step up and figure out a way to deal with this appropriately. Nothing is going to change until SHE changes. We aren't miracle workers, OP. I dont believe you can change this on your own.

I would have one last talk with mom and let her know that if you cant work together with a plan and see some progress, you will continue taking care of big sis only, not little brother. If she chooses to remove sis from your care, that is HER choice.

as for the not responding from this little guy, it is probably due to environment. he is left alone and unattended for long periods of time from the sounds of it (in his room). he probably is lacking attachment and appropriate communication skills which should be learned thru interaction with his parents.

THIS. A million times over.

[Meeko]

I guess I just try to think positive & look forward to spring when we can get outside & this kid can run around all he wants. Plus I'd like to think that at least when they are with me, they are safe. They get love & attention here.

Tomorrow I will talk with the mom & see what she says. Hopefully we can figure something out that works for ALL of us.

THEY are safe.

Your son is not.

That doesn't make any sense to me AT ALL.

[Blackcat31]

THEY are safe.

Your son is not.

That doesn't make any sense to me AT ALL.

That is what is confusing me as well. :confused:

Keeping the DCK's safe is their mother's responsibility. NOT yours.

I am just having a really hard time understanding how a mother could allow her own child to be the one who is getting the short end of the stick in this situation.

OP, are you at all concerned about how your own son is doing in this situation? He looks to YOU for protection, comfort and security and you are insteading making those things a priority for another child.

Several posters have brought this up and you have yet to address this line of thinking.

FWIW~ WORST mistake I ever made in child care was getting emotionally invested in saving a child. The intentions were good from the start but the ending was bad. VERY bad.

Please put YOUR child first.

[canadiancare]

The only thing I can add here and I may be a bit holistic in my thinking style for you but have you (or his mother) ever gone through a checklist for his environment and looked to see where his behaviours could be guided by external forces?

One of the most helpful books I ever read was called Allergies and the Hyperactive Child it is an older book but the basic concepts are still there.

Unless you are dealing with a mini sociopath (tongue in cheek) a 16 month old isn't setting out to be "bad". They are too young to make a conscious decision and it is up to the adults in their lives to figure out what is going wrong.

Good luck with this.

[Daycarelady1979]

Peace out.

Thanks for informing me that I'm an awful person & horrible at everything I do. That's super!! All I asked for was advice on what to say to the mother, not personal judgements on my parenting style or how I run my daycare. Hope y'all have a good day. I've had enough. I've asked Michael to delete my account.

[Daycarelady1979]

And just so everyone is aware, I only used the word "bad" on here...not to his face, not to his mom, NOWHERE ELSE, EVER. I'm not quite the monster you have made me out to be. But thanks for ruining my morning & making me feel like I'm going to throw up!

[Blackcat31]

Thanks for informing me that I'm an awful person & horrible at everything I do. That's super!! All I asked for was advice on what to say to the mother, not personal judgements on my parenting style or how I run my daycare. Hope y'all have a good day. I've had enough. I've asked Michael to delete my account.

And just so everyone is aware, I only used the word "bad" on here...not to his face, not to his mom, NOWHERE ELSE, EVER. I'm not quite the monster you have made me out to be. But thanks for ruining my morning & making me feel like I'm going to throw up!

I'm sorry but YOU are an adult. You posted a situation on an on-line public forum and then when you didn't get the responses or replies that you wanted to hear, you got angry.

I am sorry that you feel like you do. I doubt very much that anyone intenteded to purposely make you feel rotten or horrible. I know I didn't.

I only asked for clarification about some of the details YOU brought up.

You know as well as anyone that when you share something with a DIVERSE group of people, you are absolutely going to get advice, judgements and opinions on your words/actions and not all of them are going to be in line with what you wanted to hear.

I haven't read one single post where anyone says you are an awful person and horrible at what you do. YOU brought up your own child so you really can't expect others to not respond to that.

I'm sorry for coming across as harsh but honestly I am growing weary of people posting and asking for advice and then getting all mad about the replies and wanting to close their accounts and leave the board.

I hope when you are past the anger you are feeling, you can take a step back and see that NO ONE here was trying to purposely hurt you and that everyone was simply trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together and make sense of what you posted.

I am sorry if you feel you want to leave the board because I for one appreciate ALL the different perspectives that are given in every situation.

As an adult, we can't make educated and mature decisions without ALL the details and options and that includes ones that aren't right for us or ones that may upset us.

Take the advice you can use and leave the rest. Don't automatically assume everything is a personal attack on you.

Hoping you are able to find a resolution for this issue that works for everyone involved.

[countrymom]

op no matter what you do, if mom is not on board then you will have a hard time.

1.mom needs to bring him back to dr and get his ears checked

2.from the minute he walks in the house, you need to make him you shadow. Hold his hand or whatever, but you need to show him good behavior.

3.stop putting him in time outs all over the place. Find one spot and thats the time out spot. By putting him all over the place he's getting confused.

4. also, you need to be one step ahead of him, if you see him going towards your ds, remove him to somewhere else. You start to see him run, take his hand and walk with him somewhere else. Over and over tell him to walk.

5.its going to take time, but you need to be tough and consistant. Don't back down and don't give up. Thats what he wants you to do, he wants you to just give up. I have a dd like this, and she is much better now.

6.start writing down his behavior, start telling mom everyday what is going on. If you don't let her know what is going every day then she's not going to be able to fix it either.

oh I had a dck that age who would look all innocent and the minute I would turn around they were jumping on another child and choking them, full force.