Really BAD Kid...

[AnneCordelia]

In my province it is considered abuse to spank a child younger than 2. I would have to report that. CAS here wouldn't take the child or anything but they would recommend classes for the parent on appropriate discipline.

[spud912]

I have to say spanking a child isn't abuse. Here is something from my state website:

Physical abuse includes:

•Bruises or cuts
•Head injuries
•Poisoning
•Fractures, sprains
•Burns or scalds
•Internal injuries
•Electrical shocks
•Death

Although not recommended, spanking is not abuse. However, a spanking which leaves marks or bruises on a child might be abuse. Bruises anywhere on a baby are serious.

I find it interesting they even say it MIGHT be but not a for sure thing.


When I felt overwhelmed when my kids were little, you know what the professionals would say-put you child into their room and take a break. Why, because it gave you some time to calm down and collect your thoughts.

If CPS was called for everyone that spanked their child, I don't think there would be enough tax dollars to run the agency anymore.

I agree with this!

While I completely disagree with this mom's methods of punishment at her son's age, as long as their are no marks, these are legal forms of punishment.

[Meeko]

I have to say spanking a child isn't abuse. Here is something from my state website:

Physical abuse includes:

•Bruises or cuts
•Head injuries
•Poisoning
•Fractures, sprains
•Burns or scalds
•Internal injuries
•Electrical shocks
•Death

Although not recommended, spanking is not abuse. However, a spanking which leaves marks or bruises on a child might be abuse. Bruises anywhere on a baby are serious.

I find it interesting they even say it MIGHT be but not a for sure thing.


When I felt overwhelmed when my kids were little, you know what the professionals would say-put you child into their room and take a break. Why, because it gave you some time to calm down and collect your thoughts.

If CPS was called for everyone that spanked their child, I don't think there would be enough tax dollars to run the agency anymore.

Yes...it's my own personal opinion, but REGULAR and ONGOING spanking of a baby is not OK in my book. Being locked up and hit is not the life he should be subjected to.

I have sent my own kids to their room when they were out of line. But never as babies and never on a regular basis. He is too young to understand why he is being shunned.

[spud912]

ok, I'm going to tell you what the problem is. She is beating you down to get her way. I have one like this, and she is 12 now.

1.you need to get her up every day at the same time, if she is a bear then so be it, but by getting up every day her body will be use to it. It consistency.

2.as for the dressing and toileting, if you need be, then either let her pick her clothes out or you dress her. I found that I had to give my dd either a or b to pick from nothing more otherwise there are too many choices and she goes crazy. I've had to hold her on my lap and physically dress her too.

3.stop putting her in her room. THIS IS THE WORST THING EVER. Children will start to associate their bedrooms as a bad place, this goes along the line of playpens and cribs. Also, she will start to destroy her room and then what, you'll be back to square one.

4.you need to have a time out spot or area. For my dd we used a stool. It sat in the middle of the room away from everything. She was to sit there and she could scream and yell and spit (yes she would spit at us) and when she was done she could get off. At first she would get off, but I would put her back over and over again. Remember your the parent, you are the one in charge not her. I don't reason with children, she was one that you couldn't do it, you couldn't redirect her either, you needed to show her that you were bigger and stronger and that you wouldn't tolerate her nonsense.

5.also, I found that we had to have a rigid routine for a while. We had to go to bed everyday at a certain time, eat at a certain time.

6.I've been there and done a workshop on kids like her (they call them spirited, I call them something else: but its gotten so much better. We still have days but nothing like before. I also found that asking them why they are screaming works too. I would hold them on my lap and make them tell me why or till the stop screaming. Yes its exhausting but it will get better. We always laugh that dd is going to be a great lawyer some day because she doesn't know the work "no"

Thank you so much for your advice. I do have to say that she has a stronger will than I do in many instances. We have already done several of the things you recommend and they sometimes worked for short periods of time, but they soon became as ineffective as all the others. We already maintain a very stringent schedule with her. Time out is completely ineffective and the only way to keep her in it is to hold her down, which leads to hitting and pushing. She is improving with age though and rarely hits or pushes anymore (maybe once every 2 months). My current methods of lots of positive praise, a lot of extra attention and rewards for good behavior seems to be working wonderfully for the time being .

I just wanted the OP to know it can be worked with but not without a lot of work and sacrifice (of which I do not know is worthwhile when the child is not even hers).

[Country Kids]

The op said the mom wasn't spanking anymore but putting him in his room but no where did she say for hours or anything. For all we know it maybe being used as a time out for the child/mom. We don't know her life and maybe she feels safer doing this then something that could lead to actual abuse. We don't know the whole facts on this story or what is really going on.

Also, if we are going to turn this mother in we should also turn in the parents we know that get home feed the kids, bath them and have them in bed by 7:00. Why wouldn't that be considered abuse? I have read many a story on here about parents that do this.

[Heidi]

I have to say spanking a child isn't abuse. Here is something from my state website:

Physical abuse includes:

•Bruises or cuts
•Head injuries
•Poisoning
•Fractures, sprains
•Burns or scalds
•Internal injuries
•Electrical shocks
•Death

Although not recommended, spanking is not abuse. However, a spanking which leaves marks or bruises on a child might be abuse. Bruises anywhere on a baby are serious.

I find it interesting they even say it MIGHT be but not a for sure thing.


When I felt overwhelmed when my kids were little, you know what the professionals would say-put you child into their room and take a break. Why, because it gave you some time to calm down and collect your thoughts.

If CPS was called for everyone that spanked their child, I don't think there would be enough tax dollars to run the agency anymore.

From OP's description, this is not an occasional "swat" on the rear to gain the child's attention, or putting the child in his room for a minute so that she can calm down. DCM is using spanking and isolation to punish a 16 month old. While this may not leave physical marks, it will certainly leave emotional ones, and it teaches him absolutely nothing except violence.

OP can't do either of these things, so even if they worked at home, it would not work at daycare.

If this is how DCM is handling his behavior at 16 months, neither the mother or the child will ever develop any long-term strategies. As someone else said, he will only get older and stronger. When he's 16 years instead of 16 months, she will not be able to bully him into submission. Never mind, that it doesn't seem to be working anyway.

I personally would be working with the mother to find her resources, and would be pushing, pushing her to use those resources. Doctor evals, Birth-two-Three, parenting classes, resource centers. If she refused to avail herself of these resources, I would call CPS. With no intervention, there is a real danger severe physical abuse occuring down the road. Afterall, Mom's got no tools, and neither does the provider (NOT saying OP would resort to abuse!!). But, children like this are prime candidates!

Maybe CPS wouldn't do a darn thing. I really don't know. Hopefully, they'd at least push the resources as well.

[My3cents]

The op said the mom wasn't spanking anymore but putting him in his room but no where did she say for hours or anything. For all we know it maybe being used as a time out for the child/mom. We don't know her life and maybe she feels safer doing this then something that could lead to actual abuse. We don't know the whole facts on this story or what is really going on.

Also, if we are going to turn this mother in we should also turn in the parents we know that get home feed the kids, bath them and have them in bed by 7:00. Why wouldn't that be considered abuse? I have read many a story on here about parents that do this.

Why would that be considered abuse? What am I missing here. A parent that picks up the child feeds the kid and bathes them and has them in bed by 7:00, What is wrong with this? I would call that parent a good parent. They are feeding and bathing and putting the child to bed at a reasonable hour. Big difference between spanking and locking a child in a room. Maybe I am out to lunch, actually I am at lunch

[cheerfuldom]

You commented about this child on another members thread.

https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?p=310223#post310223

"
I had a little boy here tonight from 2:30-10:15 pm that fell asleep 3 times!! He took a nap right after his mom left, he fell asleep after being placed in a time out for running in circles inside my house over & over, and then he fell asleep again around 9:30 when I put him down for bed. Personally I think that's crazy, but his mom is a single mom going to nursing school full time & working part time...who knows what this kid's weekend was like?! I don't really question it. If they're tired, let 'em sleep. The only time I ever do it differently is if the parent says, "Little Johnny isn't sleeping well for me at night...could you please not let him sleep past 3:00 today?"


Wow! It seems to me maybe it is because this little boy is not treated well (spanking, locked in room), has no routine, no schedule which would greatly contribute to all of these problems.

so mom is basically doing something else most hours of the day and night. this kid is SCREAMING for some routine and structure from mom. i get that single moms have a lot on their plate but at this point, her children are suffering. if she is locking a a baby in a room alone, what is going on with the older? is she being left alone and unsupervised as well? goodness, this whole home situation and daycare issues sound quite extreme. i stand by my statement that the OP should let this family go and concentrate on her own children and the other daycare families first. you cant save em all, as they say. you should make decisions based on priorities and your own family ALWAYS comes first.

[cheerfuldom]

Also, did anyone remember she is still pretty newly pregnant and I'm sure she is pretty emotional with that right now. She shared the awesome news I believe yesterday that the ultrasound/heart beat came out great.

I'm pretty sure she is just having some high emotions right now, probably a little overwhelmed and just looking for support, not wanting to second guess herself.

oh the provider is pregnant?! even MORE of a reason to term this wild child. if this boy is biting the providers older child and wrecking the household, what will happen when he gets to a newborn???? gosh, he could really hurt someone bad and will be 10 months down the road and much stronger at that point. yikes!!

[cheerfuldom]

OP....

I do not want to berate you. I want to give you some advice as a friend, and I hope you take it as such.

Your child is young now, and you may not feel that he will ever resent you for protecting this other child while allowing him to be the victim of this child, however, I assure you, in time it will come back to haunt you.

Our children already sacrifice enough every day by having to share thier Mommy, their home and their belongings with other people's children. That alone is enough for them to resent us as parents as they get older. I would hate for, in 5-10-15 years for you to realize how much your child actually resents what you are allowing.

I believe that your cause, protecting this other child, is noble. However, I do believe and KNOW that you will come to regret it one day.

Please do not sacrifice the relationship you could have with your child in the future. Please.

well written.

sometimes we get into a situation for the right reasons but stay in the situation for the wrong ones.

keeping an aggressive child because you want to protect their sibling meanwhile risking your own childs well being is a perfect example of staying in a situation when you need to exit now!

[Country Kids]

Why would that be considered abuse? What am I missing here. A parent that picks up the child feeds the kid and bathes them and has them in bed by 7:00, What is wrong with this? I would call that parent a good parent. They are feeding and bathing and putting the child to bed at a reasonable hour. Big difference between spanking and locking a child in a room. Maybe I am out to lunch, actually I am at lunch

I was thinking because there is no quality time being really spent with them. I have children that are picked up by 5:30 and if they are in bed by 7:00, it would only be a totaly of 1.5 hours with the parent and between getting dinner, eating, bathing, bed thats pretty rushed and not relaxing quality time.

[jokalima]

Thanks! He is doing better and he was really bad, even before he could walk he was this way and older kids were terrified of a crawling baby, when he started walking things got worse. I could find hair on my floor from him pulling other kids hair, scratches on other kids, I mean it was bad, really bad. Getting professional help has helped me TONS he has his teachers that visit him during DC hours and they even help me with other kids so it has been a very positive experience.

[youretooloud]

I had a boy similar to this. He wasn't as hard as you describe, but he exhausted me. The other parents were coming in on a daily basis saying "My child said Colli did...." and it was one complaint after another.

When he was 18 months, his mom decided to put him in a center. He was kicked out within two weeks, then he was kicked out of the next center too...

So, I took him back, because I didn't think he was THAT bad...but, in that month, he had turned into the most horrible child i'd ever seen. I kicked him within the week. I was honest with the mom, saying "I can't afford to lose my other kids to keep him".

He got completely out of hand for several years. They moved across country, tried a few different public schools, and finally put him in a private school for kids with "extra energy". It's very boot camp-ish, and sports are required. He's not doing great....his parents got a divorce because they couldn't agree with what to do about him.

He's on my facebook, and I feel like he's SOOOO far out of control now (for his age) that I don't see a way back for him. Just what I see on facebook shocks me.

[CedarCreek]

Op I think you have gotten some great advice on this thread and I am sorry you felt as though you were made out to be a horrible person. Don't worry about calling the child "bad" here. I called one of my kids a devil child on the dear parents thread. I would never call him that to him or anyone else in my life. Bottom line though is that you really should term the child. Its not a healthy relationship for either one of you. All the best.

[Sugar Magnolia]

To the OP: nobody said you were horrible, nobody was trying to ruin your day. Yes, some people had an issue with the use if the word "bad", including myself. Its about professionalism and how the public perceives us. Many people gave you good advice. If you feel that our advice was poor, then that's ok. There is clearly some issues at home, and if you feel the child is being neglected (at the very least) you should report it. Leaving a toddler unattended in a locked bedroom is very inappropriate and dangerous. What if he became entangled in a cord and was strangled while locked in his room? I agree with the others, you cannot protect the older girl forever, if she was molested in a previous daycare, she too probably needs more help than you can provide. The phrase "bit over 100 times", also freaked many of us out. As I said before, this cannot continue. Its shocking, and shocking news usually brings harsher replies here, sorry.

About "attacks" and the forum in general......Yes, I think it is important to be kind. I also think it is important to be frank and honest. Sometimes, the truth hurts. Been there, done that. I know people come here to vent, but its my opinion that words like stupid, bad, hate, lousy parents and the like should not be used. Am I one of those politically correct people? Yep. Its not always what you say, but how you say it. PARENTS READ THIS FORUM, we don't need to be viewed as intolerant, close minded, or even worse, mean. These words give our profession a black eye.