Really BAD Kid...

[Country Kids]

I had a boy similar to this. He wasn't as hard as you describe, but he exhausted me. The other parents were coming in on a daily basis saying "My child said Colli did...." and it was one complaint after another.

When he was 18 months, his mom decided to put him in a center. He was kicked out within two weeks, then he was kicked out of the next center too...

So, I took him back, because I didn't think he was THAT bad...but, in that month, he had turned into the most horrible child i'd ever seen. I kicked him within the week. I was honest with the mom, saying "I can't afford to lose my other kids to keep him".

He got completely out of hand for several years. They moved across country, tried a few different public schools, and finally put him in a private school for kids with "extra energy". It's very boot camp-ish, and sports are required. He's not doing great....his parents got a divorce because they couldn't agree with what to do about him.

He's on my facebook, and I feel like he's SOOOO far out of control now (for his age) that I don't see a way back for him. Just what I see on facebook shocks me.

Do you think this is the childs genetic make up and no matter what a person does, he is just made up this way?

You know it must be bad when a boot style school can't do anything and the parents divorce. That is very scary-

[hgonzalez]

OMG..this was me a month ago. I am sorry people but there are children out there that are just badly behaved and mean. My heart goes out to you; I had a child exactly like this here and tried to work with the parents.

This kid was cruel to others, and I mean totally unprovoked cruel behavior...like poking a baby in the eyes when he first came in in the morning. Or grabbing someone's blankey out of their arms for no reason but to upset them. He also could not be contained. He could get out of ANY highchair, even when strapped in. I finally got one with a raised area between his legs that slowed him down as he could not climb out as easily. He also broke things intentionally and constantly. He would slap his Mom in the face at pick up time. He was 22 mos old when he left here.

If we were in the same state, I would think it was the same kid. I tried to work with the parents and they gave me notice. I am really scared the child is going to turn into a mass murderer or something, he was that awful.

I totally get your frustration. If you can get the parents on the same page and be consistent with discipline at daycare and home, maybe he has a chance (or maybe you have a chance). Does he have any food allergies? (sorry if this is repetitive).

My dkp termed me, which tells you they don't think there is a problem. I went through the Holidays with a big bruise on my forehead from that kid....glad he is gone!

[cheerfuldom]

I had a boy similar to this. He wasn't as hard as you describe, but he exhausted me. The other parents were coming in on a daily basis saying "My child said Colli did...." and it was one complaint after another.

When he was 18 months, his mom decided to put him in a center. He was kicked out within two weeks, then he was kicked out of the next center too...

So, I took him back, because I didn't think he was THAT bad...but, in that month, he had turned into the most horrible child i'd ever seen. I kicked him within the week. I was honest with the mom, saying "I can't afford to lose my other kids to keep him".

He got completely out of hand for several years. They moved across country, tried a few different public schools, and finally put him in a private school for kids with "extra energy". It's very boot camp-ish, and sports are required. He's not doing great....his parents got a divorce because they couldn't agree with what to do about him.

He's on my facebook, and I feel like he's SOOOO far out of control now (for his age) that I don't see a way back for him. Just what I see on facebook shocks me.

thats so awful

[youretooloud]

Do you think this is the childs genetic make up and no matter what a person does, he is just made up this way?

You know it must be bad when a boot style school can't do anything and the parents divorce. That is very scary-

I think it was a combination of being a very difficult child, and parents who just ran out of ideas. They had dreams for him, and he's not at all what they dreamed of.

But, he's only 13...so, maybe he will make the changes for himself.

A few weeks ago, he posted pictures on facebook of himself smoking pot. So, obviously, he wasn't born with the common sense gene.

ETA: On calling the O.P's kid "bad"....the boy i'm talking about is nicknamed "Damien" by his own parents.

[Crystal]

Spanking your child, at 16 months old, even ONCE is abuse. Locking a 16 month old in a bedroom, for even ONE minute, is abuse. I guarantee you that CPS WOULD consider it abusive and there WOULD be intervention.

Besides just THAT behavior from the mother, clearly, based on OP feeling a need to protect this child based on the history of her being abused, this Mother is severely neglectful.

Regardless, it is not up to us to decide if it is or is not abuse. As mandated reporters if we even remotely SUSPECT abuse OR neglect, we are required to report it and let CPS decide if it is abuse or not.

OP.....I hope you come back and respond about this very serious matter.

[wdmmom]

Yes, he does sleep...A LOT.
I told the mom I need to talk to her tomorrow at pick up time.
Yes, he climbs out of high chair, even when strapped in. I don't know how he does it!
He eats almost anything. He is a good eater.

In the past when I have dealt with a child with behavior like this, after one or two times or redirection or separation, they get the point. This boy DOES NOT GET IT. He just does the same stuff over & over & over...and I NEVER let him get away with it.

For example, every single day, without fail, he runs laps around my downstairs area. Runs. And runs. And runs. Circles! All day! I redirect him. It doesn't work. I separate him from the area. It doesn't work. I contain him in his high chair. It doesn't work. I sit him on the couch for a mini time out. It doesn't work. I speak to him, on his level, in a firm voice. It doesn't work. NOTHING WORKS. Finally I moved my furniture around so he couldn't run in circles. His play area was cut in half. I didn't know what else to do. It was a total pain (and not fair) for the other people in my house. It seemed to work for him though. Tonight I used my super yard in a straight line to block off one doorway & a baby gate in the other doorway, instead of moving all the furniture again. He ran, and ran, and ran, and ran from gate to gate. Back & forth. Over & over. What more can I do??

If y'all want to think I'm an awful person for saying he is "bad"...go right ahead. At this point it doesn't bother me. He has bitten another child about 100 times since he started coming here. The biting, the running, the hitting, the standing on toys...it's becoming a safety issue & I'm just looking for some advice from fellow providers. If you don't have anything constructive to say, how 'bout you just skip this post? There's enough negativity in the world today...can't we at least be nice to each other on here?

One word solution:

PLAYARD!!!

If he can't be in the common area, he gets his own area. Running is an absolute NO-NO here.

If he runs, swiftly pick him up without saying a word and contain him to a playard. He can have 35 square foot to play or sit or cry or whatever he wants to do. If he throws the toys that are in there, he gets stuffed animals only. He throws those, he gets none.

He's still young enough that you can nip this but you need to be assertive and aggressive. Teach him the rules and show him...the better gig is with the rest of the group, not isolated to a playard. Sooner or later, they figure it out.

If the hitting and biting continue, I would terminate just for the simple fact that he clearly can't function with a group. He needs individual care.

[Willow]

Do you think this is the childs genetic make up and no matter what a person does, he is just made up this way?

You know it must be bad when a boot style school can't do anything and the parents divorce. That is very scary-

Violence isn't genetic but mental illness can lower inhibitions and tolerance levels (or heighten them to the point where a kid getting the tar beat out of him in retaliation doesn't feel a thing or is drawn to that sort of endorphin release/thrill/attention).

One can usually only speculate but a lot of times kids like that have a history of alcohol/lead/chemical/drug (prescription and illegal) exposure in utero too.

All kinds of inorganic exposures can alter physiology (particularly when you're talking about the developing brain) to the point where there just is no way that child is ever going to grow to function "normally."

[daycare]

Violence isn't genetic but mental illness can lower inhibitions and tolerance levels (or heighten them to the point where a kid getting the tar beat out of him in retaliation doesn't feel a thing or is drawn to that sort of endorphin release/thrill/attention).

One can usually only speculate but a lot of times kids like that have a history of alcohol/lead/chemical/drug (prescription and illegal) exposure in utero too.

All kinds of inorganic exposures can alter physiology (particularly when you're talking about the developing brain) to the point where there just is no way that child is ever going to grow to function "normally."

willow...have I told you how happy I am that you have stayed on this board? Sorry to high-jack, but I just love the amount of knowledge you have about so many things...

Awesome!!!

[Country Kids]

I think it was a combination of being a very difficult child, and parents who just ran out of ideas. They had dreams for him, and he's not at all what they dreamed of.

But, he's only 13...so, maybe he will make the changes for himself.

A few weeks ago, he posted pictures on facebook of himself smoking pot. So, obviously, he wasn't born with the common sense gene.

ETA: On calling the O.P's kid "bad"....the boy i'm talking about is nicknamed "Damien" by his own parents.

Wow, I just say the bottom part of what his own parents call him!

It sounds like they have done everything possible and whats sad is how young he is-

If they have done all this for him and he's not getting better there really sounds like it maybe more a pschological thing.

[rmc20021]

I kinda know what you mean. I got a little boy at 9 months old...he was horrible. There was nothing I could do to satisfy him. He cried all day long and NEVER slept. I kept hanging on thinking he'd get better as he got older.
He never got better, he just changed the things that were so awful in dealing with him.
He went from crying all day and not sleeping to screaming hysterically if I left the room and throwing toys across the room, hitting other kids with toys, falling down on top of other kids...just one thing after another.
Still kept hanging in there thinking it had to get better sooner or later. I can't tell you how many times I wrote out a text to send to mom, but didn't.
As he got older, he got sneaky and no longer screamed when I left the room...he took that opportunity to get into whatever he could. I couldn't take my eyes off him for a second.
One day his mom told me she was changing daycares...he was about 16 mo at that time. I felt so much relief that SHE was the one to terminate and I didn't have to do it.
A few days later she contacted me wanting to bring him back...I told her NO. Stress levels have been greatly reduced around here and I wouldn't go back to that for anything.

[Bookworm]

I was thinking because there is no quality time being really spent with them. I have children that are picked up by 5:30 and if they are in bed by 7:00, it would only be a totaly of 1.5 hours with the parent and between getting dinner, eating, bathing, bed thats pretty rushed and not relaxing quality time.

This situation is very similar to a 2yr old in my center. He has many of the same issues. After seriously hurting another child, DCM was called in for a conference where she admitted that she rarely held him as a baby because all of her focus was on her special needs daughter. She also put him to bed around 7-7:30 so she could have a break from him. Mind you now DCB one of the first kids at daycare and one of the last at pickup.

When DCM realized that he just wanted some of her time and attention, she broke down because she didn't realize how her actions affected him. Once she began spending more time with him, his behavior gradually improved because all he wanted was to be with here.

If the OP talked to DCM about spending more time with him, would she be overstepping her boundaries with mom?

[daycare]

This situation is very similar to a 2yr old in my center. He has many of the same issues. After seriously hurting another child, DCM was called in for a conference where she admitted that she rarely held him as a baby because all of her focus was on her special needs daughter. She also put him to bed around 7-7:30 so she could have a break from him. Mind you now DCB one of the first kids at daycare and one of the last at pickup.

When DCM realized that he just wanted some of her time and attention, she broke down because she didn't realize how her actions affected him. Once she began spending more time with him, his behavior gradually improved because all he wanted was to be with here.

If the OP talked to DCM about spending more time with him, would she be overstepping her boundaries with mom?

wow is this not the truth. I also have a dcf that the mom spends very little to sometimes no time with her kids during the week. She is a true career woman and often works until 11pm at night or travels out of the state/county.

When she is gone like this, her daughter really suffers and behavior goes out the window. I often ask mom, hey mom I know you were gone for the last several day and little susie has really missed you. I helped her make you a card and she really expressed to me how much you wants to spend some fun time with you. (DCG always says I want mommy to take me to Disneyland, even though she has never been). I don't do it to make mom feel bad, I do it to remind her that her daughter is affected by it and is really seeking out attention however she can get it.

I know we could all probably share similar stories. Makes me sad for both the parents and the child....

[Country Kids]

So for the two previous posts-is this something we should report for being neglectful/abusive?

Basically they are spending no time with their children and pretty much just putting them into their room for the night but really not for the right reasons.

[Crystal]

So for the two previous posts-is this something we should report for being neglectful/abusive?

Basically they are spending no time with their children and pretty much just putting them into their room for the night but really not for the right reasons.

No. It is sad, to say the least, but it is not abusive to quietly lay your child down to go to bed for the night.

However, when it crosses the line to PHYSICAL punishment of (barely) a toddler, then you are really treading thin ice. If a parent did it once, or say, even twice, (which I would NOT condone either) and realized a boundary had been crossed, I could almost (but not quite) understand. this Mom said ALL THE TIME and then, when THAT didn't work for his behavior, she went on to say that she SHUTS him in his room. She didn't say she goes through a nightime routine and ritual of putting her child to bed for the night. It did not sound "loving" in any way.

I hope the OP has been checking in and has been at least considering some of the advice given here.

THAT is my concern, FWIW.

[Bookworm]

So for the two previous posts-is this something we should report for being neglectful/abusive?

Basically they are spending no time with their children and pretty much just putting them into their room for the night but really not for the right reasons.

I think shutting DCB in his room because she doesn't want to deal with him can be abuse. However, is it still considered neglect if all of the child's physical needs are met but the parent spends little to no time with their child?