Am I Morally Or Legally Obligated?

[My3cents]

And there ya go.

I need to learn to read ahead before responding......

[Blackcat31]

I don't want to create an even greater divide, but I have also read a lot of negative comments about parents who work outside the home. It ****s that so many HAVE to. Today's economy is so different, things happened, choices were made, and the Gen-Yers and beyond are reeling from them. Every generation is DIFFERENT. With different priorities, different beliefs, different sources of stress, different struggles, different advantages. And I think that's okay. It's the natural evolution of society.

That is a difference of opinion too. HAVE to and WANT to are two totally different things.

I know lots of families who are perfectly willing to give up the new cars and the big houses, big screen TV, giant cable bills, cell phone bills, Starbucks and name brand clothing just so both parents DON'T have to work outside the home.

In all my years of being a member of society.....it hasn't been often that I have met a family in which BOTH parents HAVE to work outside the home....unless it was for the perks I mentioned above and that is a personal choice NOT a necessity.

[just_peachy]

This is your view. OK- I don't agree

I have tons of experience and years in this field- but I don't fall into the cookie cutter mold. I often throw in my 3cents and more- I don't expect after I have said something, that does not agree with someone else, for them to be buddy buddy with me. Not how the real world works. It takes people a little time to come around. Some never do. That is ok. Sometimes I stand strongly on what I believe in and it just doesn't mesh with someone else- that is ok. I think threads are killed from lack of interest from the peanut galleries. Sometimes all that can be said is said. I also think looking up to our Seniors is not a bad theory in itself. I also feel learning new is good too. But..... some of the new stuff out there is lacking good common sense because someone that did not have this in the first place ruined it for everyone else--- I just strive for a balance for what works for me. If I hurt someone I try to own up to it, but if I have a passion for what I believe in sometimes I am willing to walk away with feelings at hand. I can't please everyone but I can try to get my point across as nicely as possible. I fall short at times- What is it you are looking for in this piece? More information for what? What am I missing here that made this post come about?

It's difficult to clarify. I made blanket statements that I shouldn't have when I had just a few individuals in mind. At the same time, I don't want to single anyone out...

I agree with everything else you said! I suppose I am a lot more neutral than I am coming off today. Apparently spring break is giving me too much down time! It's just difficult for me to sit by and feel like one side is being unequally and unfairly represented, so it is easier for me to speak on that side's behalf.

[just_peachy]

That is a difference of opinion too. HAVE to and WANT to are two totally different things.

I know lots of families who are perfectly willing to give up the new cars and the big houses, big screen TV, giant cable bills, cell phone bills, Starbucks and name brand clothing just so both parents DON'T have to work outside the home.

In all my years of being a member of society.....it hasn't been often that I have met a family in which BOTH parents HAVE to work outside the home....unless it was for the perks I mentioned above and that is a personal choice NOT a necessity.

Interesting, I wonder if this is regional as well. Out of the 6 families I have, only 1 of them could so easily live off of one income that it's disturbing to me that they both work. Well, two, but the second one it is the mom that is the bread winner. The rest are barely scraping by on 2 incomes.

[littlemissmuffet]

Frogs, I wish you wouldn't say things such as narcotics in breast milk being less dangerous than formula . Yes, there are plenty of studies that show that breast fed infants are healthier (mentally, physically and emotionally) than forumla fed - but there are also plenty of studies that show there is essentially ZERO long-term difference between the two. Who educated me on this? TEN different certified breastfeeding consultants, neonatalogists and peds who work in one of Canada's leading NICUs. So, you might have done your research, you might have YOUR team of doctors and consultants whom you CHOOSE to agree with - but others are entitled to that same right.

Also, speaking from experience - my husband and I were both forumla babies - we are two of the healthiest adults I know. We also were top of our classes throughout our educational years. We are average sizes. We both walked and started talking at 9 months, were both potty trained by 15 months. We both have extremely strong bonds with our mothers.

My daughter is a formula baby. She was born 3 months and 6 days premature. She is off the charts for growth and ability. The doctors are AMAZED that she doesn't look like or act like a 26 weeker preemie. She was born with a grade 4 brain bleed and many other medical issues which she's fully conquered in her short three months of life. She is the healthiest long-term and short-term baby in the NICU. She does not behave as any other preemie most of the NICU staff have seen. She is better off than the breast-fed babies around us.

My sisters 3 children are all formula babies. All are 100% healthy (rarely even catch the common cold), are all in advanced classes and are extremely bright and intelligent. Each one of them walked and talked early, each one of them surpassed their friends in ability.

Are the 6 examples of strong, advanced, healthy individuals the result of formula? No, of course not. If all of us were breast fed, I wouldn't attribute our advances in life to that either.

I am not for or against breast feeding, but I am very much against women who DO/CAN breastfeed making one-sided comments about how unhealthy or dangerous formula is. You can show me every study under the sun that "proves" this, but remember, there will be just as many studies that disprove it.

You are entitled to believe what you want but to spew your OPINIONS as fact is just plain wrong.

[Blackcat31]

Interesting, I wonder if this is regional as well. Out of the 6 families I have, only 1 of them could so easily live off of one income that it's disturbing to me that they both work. Well, two, but the second one it is the mom that is the bread winner. The rest are barely scraping by on 2 incomes.

I'm sorry but unless you have FULL and 100% complete access to their financial records you don't know that as factual.

I'm betting at least one of the families you are talking about makes poor money choices or prioritizes in a way that requires BOTH parents to work in order to maintain their chosen life styles.

You only know what they tell you and IME, wanting to work outside the home is completely different than having to.

[CedarCreek]

Oh dear dear dear...

I was completely fine with this debate (breastfeeding) until it was said and implied that formula is worse than breastmilk with narcotics. No. Just no.

Both of my sons were preemies. One more so than the other. The first, I tried to pump but I could not keep up with it because I still had to go to highschool and ds was in the nice for a while. I couldn't even touch him. After about 3 weeks, nothing. He went on formula. Second ds, had a hard time latching but I still bf'ed and pumped like crazy. What stopped me was being placed on Zoloft. My doctor told me to stop bfing because the Zoloft would make him sleepy and then he would lose precious weight. Formula it was. Did any of that make me not as good of a mother as a breastfeeding mom? HE77 NO.

As for the rest of the arguments, just put your big girl panties on. The only way I would be leaving this forum for reasons other than I just wanted to would be because there were some serious low blows that were being hugely ignored. But I don't see that happening because I'm sure we are all adults here that would not stoop that low.

[Crystal]

Frogs, I wish you wouldn't say things such as narcotics in breast milk being less dangerous than formula . Yes, there are plenty of studies that show that breast fed infants are healthier (mentally, physically and emotionally) than forumla fed - but there are also plenty of studies that show there is essentially ZERO long-term difference between the two. Who educated me on this? TEN different certified breastfeeding consultants, neonatalogists and peds who work in one of Canada's leading NICUs. So, you might have done your research, you might have YOUR team of doctors and consultants whom you CHOOSE to agree with - but others are entitled to that same right.

Also, speaking from experience - my husband and I were both forumla babies - we are two of the healthiest adults I know. We also were top of our classes throughout our educational years. We are average sizes. We both walked and started talking at 9 months, were both potty trained by 15 months. We both have extremely strong bonds with our mothers.

My daughter is a formula baby. She was born 3 months and 6 days premature. She is off the charts for growth and ability. The doctors are AMAZED that she doesn't look like or act like a 26 weeker preemie. She was born with a grade 4 brain bleed and many other medical issues which she's fully conquered in her short three months of life. She is the healthiest long-term and short-term baby in the NICU. She does not behave as any other preemie most of the NICU staff have seen. She is better off than the breast-fed babies around us.

My sisters 3 children are all formula babies. All are 100% healthy (rarely even catch the common cold), are all in advanced classes and are extremely bright and intelligent. Each one of them walked and talked early, each one of them surpassed their friends in ability.

Are the 6 examples of strong, advanced, healthy individuals the result of formula? No, of course not. If all of us were breast fed, I wouldn't attribute our advances in life to that either.

I am not for or against breast feeding, but I am very much against women who DO/CAN breastfeed making one-sided comments about how unhealthy or dangerous formula is. You can show me every study under the sun that "proves" this, but remember, there will be just as many studies that disprove it.

You are entitled to believe what you want but to spew your OPINIONS as fact is just plain wrong.

Thank you for this. Your story is truly heart breaking, yet inspiring. :hug:

[Crystal]

On the topic of breastmilk from a mother who is heavily medicated on pain meds/narcotics.....HOW can that possibly be better for the baby than forumula? Please, enlighten me, because I just do not see how that is at all possible.

[Crazy In Mo]

I was completely fine with this debate (breastfeeding) until it was said and implied that formula is worse than breastmilk with narcotics. No. Just no..

[littlemissmuffet]

Thank you for this. Your story is truly heart breaking, yet inspiring. :hug:

:hug:

[frgsonmysox]

I didn't imply anything. I straight up said, that nursing with narcotics is better for a child than formula. I did not say those who used formula are bad parents, and the hurt feelings anytime anyone ever says that nursing is healthier for infants is ridiculous. If you don't want to, or can't, or whatever your reason is for not nursing - thats your reason. I'm not going to tell you that you are wrong. But don't get all butt hurt when I say, and others, and studies show that nursing is healthier.

http://www.nbci.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=26:breastfeeding-and-medications&catid=5:information&Itemid=17

"Introduction Over the years, far too many women have been wrongly told they had to stop breastfeeding because they must take a particular drug. The decision about continuing breastfeeding when the mother takes a drug, for example, is far more involved than whether the baby will get any of the drug in the milk. It also involves taking into consideration the risks of not breastfeeding, for the mother, the baby and the family, as well as society. And there are plenty of risks in not breastfeeding, so the question essentially boils down to: Does the addition of a small amount of medication to the mother’s milk make breastfeeding more hazardous than formula feeding? The answer is almost never. Breastfeeding with a little drug in the milk is almost always safer. In other words, being careful means continuing breastfeeding, not stopping. "

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/breastfeeding-and-medications/MY02043

http://kellymom.com/bf/can-i-breastfeed/meds/med-risks/

I don't post **** without knowing what I'm talking about.

[Willow]

R

On the topic of breastmilk from a mother who is heavily medicated on pain meds/narcotics.....HOW can that possibly be better for the baby than forumula? Please, enlighten me, because I just do not see how that is at all possible.

Not that it's necessarily worth a hill of beans because it is just my opinion but all of the newborns I fostered were exposed to either prescription or illicit drugs and all of them had tough detox periods after birth.

Just in my experiences I don't see how enduring that exposure could be considered healthierfor them than formula feeding.

[Crystal]

I didn't imply anything. I straight up said, that nursing with narcotics is better for a child than formula. I did not say those who used formula are bad parents, and the hurt feelings anytime anyone ever says that nursing is healthier for infants is ridiculous. If you don't want to, or can't, or whatever your reason is for not nursing - thats your reason. I'm not going to tell you that you are wrong. But don't get all butt hurt when I say, and others, and studies show that nursing is healthier.

http://www.nbci.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=26:breastfeeding-and-medications&catid=5:information&Itemid=17

"Introduction Over the years, far too many women have been wrongly told they had to stop breastfeeding because they must take a particular drug. The decision about continuing breastfeeding when the mother takes a drug, for example, is far more involved than whether the baby will get any of the drug in the milk. It also involves taking into consideration the risks of not breastfeeding, for the mother, the baby and the family, as well as society. And there are plenty of risks in not breastfeeding, so the question essentially boils down to: Does the addition of a small amount of medication to the mother’s milk make breastfeeding more hazardous than formula feeding? The answer is almost never. Breastfeeding with a little drug in the milk is almost always safer. In other words, being careful means continuing breastfeeding, not stopping. "

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/breastfeeding-and-medications/MY02043

http://kellymom.com/bf/can-i-breastfeed/meds/med-risks/

I don't post **** without knowing what I'm talking about.

So, the first link has a list of safe meds, with none of them, shy of the codeine, being a major narcotic (even codeine isn't, really). They are over the counter type meds. It also says "Does the addition of a small amount of medication to the mother’s milk make breastfeeding more hazardous than formula feeding?" I would argue that being on a regimen of painkillers 24/7 is NOT a small amount.



The second link doesn't even go as far as to include codeine.....and this link being the mayclinic is the one I'd trust most. And, considering it says that Naproxen (whihc can be bought over the counter) should be SHORT TERM USE only, I would wonder if a heavier narcotic should be used long-term with a breast feeding child, say a child preschool age.

The third link provided virtually no information that I would deem relevant and caused me to get a bunch of pop ups.

Not ONE of them say that breastfeeding while taking narcotics is SAFER than formula. Well, the third one might have but I was afraid my computer was going to crash!!!!!

Another note to consider is that "New Research indicates"......what you don't know now, could hurt you (or your kids) later.

[Crystal]

R

Not that it's necessarily worth a hill of beans because it is just my opinion but all of the newborns I fostered were exposed to either prescription or illicit drugs and all of them had tough detox periods after birth.

Just in my experiences I don't see how enduring that exposure could be considered healthierfor them than formula feeding.

I hear ya. I have a little guy who was exposed to amphetamines in utero and via breast milk. He has had a tough go of it and has alot of delays even now at 5 years old.