Am I Morally Or Legally Obligated?

[Crystal]

Yes, Morphine is one of the safest meds to take, narcotic wise, while nursing.

Also, for long term usage PURE narcotics are far more safer to use. I am actually unable to take any meds mixed with tylenol, motrin, or naproxen. Those three meds do more damage to organs than pure narcotics do.

This I can see. The liver and kidney damage from acetominophen in the vicodin my MIL took for YEARS ended up killing her last year.

[Crystal]

Thank you A different mother in my shoes may have chosen a different path. It doesn't make either of us wrong. My doctors are all perfectly fine with me nursing, not a single one has ever encouraged me to stop.

Do you EVER worry about the long term effects though? I am not being critical, I truly want to know what you think about that.

[frgsonmysox]

I opened it and started getting multiple pop ups and that is WITH a pop up blocker. :confused:

I've never had an issue with kellymom. Perhaps its your browser? Kellymom is seriously THE leading nursing information site. Anyway, it has my medications on there and they are listed as safe. Also, you can search lactnet for many narcotics and read more. Dr. Hale is the expert in this area and he was asked and he agreed I was fine.

I am finding the same common theme. EXCEPT I am not seeing very many prescribed narcotics listed and all of them that I have seen indicate it is best to not take any narcotics at all while breast feeding (obviously) so it causes me to further question why it would be considered more safe to breastfeed while using arcotics than it would be to formula feed.

It just seems odd to me.

I've listed plenty of things that say so. I've also posted links that say that it's hard to get someone to say that outright for fear of a lawsuit. My doctors know I'm educated and won't blame them for something, and perhaps thats why they are more open and honest about my medications.

And for the record, I also have OCD (diagnosed not pretend). I take meds for that too. Still safe for me to nurse.

[CedarCreek]

Frogs, if you like I can pull a quote from you on the naked chick breast feeding thread.

I'm going to paraphrase. "I'm not doing it for attention. I'm being a good Mom." That's obviously not exactly what was said but i'm on my phone and i'm not going to go pull it off of the other thread.

Can you see how that implies that if you don't breast feed, you are not a good Mom? Coupling that with you basically saying that formula is crap and now YOU seem like the narrow minded one.

I love debates. I don't love when people can't open their minds enough to understand another opinion.

[NeedaVaca]

L1 (safest)
L2 (safer)
L3 (moderately safe)
L4 (possibly hazardous)
L5 (contraindicated)

So from what I understand the best you can do while breastfeeding and taking a substance is have one of the above associated with that drug. The best being L1 "safest". I don't see anywhere that it's "SAFE" to do this, I also think most of these studies aren't for long term users of the drug and long term breastfeeding as well. To each his own I guess. Personally for me I could not in good conscience breastfeed while taking a drug but that's just me, safest isn't good enough IMO

I also noted that none of your kids detoxed or went through withdrawals but aren't you still taking the medication? They wouldn't withdrawal until you are done taking meds or they are done breastfeeding right?

[Country Kids]

Being totally serious here but I do have a question.

Why if its so safe to BF while using these medications, do most if not all medications say "If you are BF, please check with your doctor before taking?"

If its safe and very minimal amounts pass through the milk, why would a person really be concerned? I'm think if a mom is on these types of pain killers that frgsonmysox is on and it doesn't affect her babies, is it really necessary to consult with mine? Why would it hurt mine if its not hurting hers?

[frgsonmysox]

This I can see. The liver and kidney damage from acetominophen in the vicodin my MIL took for YEARS ended up killing her last year.

A lot of people aren't aware of this, and neither was I at first. Being on pain meds for a long time, and having a disorder that most DOCTORS don't even know about requires one to become quite the expert themselves.

It took me getting into a leading pain clinic in one of the leading research hospitals in the country to find out that I literally killing myself by taking "safer medications". I fought against pain meds for 23 years. 23 years of pain, and when I couldn't take it anymore I relented. This is not my choice, I assure you.

Do you EVER worry about the long term effects though? I am not being critical, I truly want to know what you think about that.

Of course. What parent doesn't worry that everything they do, say, feed, ect their child isn't going to cause issues down the road? I worry that my kids will end up with EDS as well - so we can't even use tylenol on them NOW as they'll build a tolerance up and need to move to narcotics more quickly. I worry that drinking the amount of caffeine a day that I do will also cause harm to them. I worry that the few times I lose my cool will result in them sitting in a therapists office saying that I ruined their life. I have all the worries of any other mother. So I did what I do best. I researched and researched, endlessly, for over a year I researched. I spoke to multiple doctors, got second and third and fourth opinions. I contacted Dr. Hale, my IBCLC (which is different than an LC), a few other IBCLC's, a handful of pediatricians, my PCM, my pain med doctor and his collegue, my rhuem, my internist, my surgeon even. I have a slew of doctors who monitor me. Not 1, not 5, but about 12-15 or so every year. Every single one assured me that while nursing with no meds is BEST, nursing with my meds is BETTER than formula.

[just_peachy]

Of course. What parent doesn't worry that everything they do, say, feed, ect their child isn't going to cause issues down the road? I worry that my kids will end up with EDS as well - so we can't even use tylenol on them NOW as they'll build a tolerance up and need to move to narcotics more quickly. I worry that drinking the amount of caffeine a day that I do will also cause harm to them. I worry that the few times I lose my cool will result in them sitting in a therapists office saying that I ruined their life. I have all the worries of any other mother. So I did what I do best. .

Word to that. :hug:

[frgsonmysox]

Frogs, if you like I can pull a quote from you on the naked chick breast feeding thread.

I'm going to paraphrase. "I'm not doing it for attention. I'm being a good Mom." That's obviously not exactly what was said but i'm on my phone and i'm not going to go pull it off of the other thread.

Can you see how that implies that if you don't breast feed, you are not a good Mom? Coupling that with you basically saying that formula is crap and now YOU seem like the narrow minded one.

I love debates. I don't love when people can't open their minds enough to understand another opinion.

I was worried that quote would be misinterpreted. It was more of a response to people saying I nurse for exhibition. I don't. I nurse because I try my hardest to be the best mom *I* Can be. That doesn't mean that I judge others for what they do. I HAVE used formula before. I'd be quite a hyprocrite to say mothers are awful for doing so.

L1 (safest)
L2 (safer)
L3 (moderately safe)
L4 (possibly hazardous)
L5 (contraindicated)

So from what I understand the best you can do while breastfeeding and taking a substance is have one of the above associated with that drug. The best being L1 "safest". I don't see anywhere that it's "SAFE" to do this, I also think most of these studies aren't for long term users of the drug and long term breastfeeding as well. To each his own I guess. Personally for me I could not in good conscience breastfeed while taking a drug but that's just me, safest isn't good enough IMO

I also noted that none of your kids detoxed or went through withdrawals but aren't you still taking the medication? They wouldn't withdrawal until you are done taking meds or they are done breastfeeding right?

No, if you had read all the links mentioned it states on a few that the amount in milk is so so so small that it can't pass through enough to prevent withdrawal. In the same token, it can't get a child addicted either. Every so often we detox me off my meds too, because I don't want to have to move on to heavier meds like many of my EDS friends have. When this happens, it doesn't affect my kids at all.

Being totally serious here but I do have a question.

Why if its so safe to BF while using these medications, do most if not all medications say "If you are BF, please check with your doctor before taking?"

If its safe and very minimal amounts pass through the milk, why would a person really be concerned? I'm think if a mom is on these types of pain killers that frgsonmysox is on and it doesn't affect her babies, is it really necessary to consult with mine? Why would it hurt mine if its not hurting hers?

Lawsuits. Everything has a disclaimer, everything. Read ANY label, they all have disclaimers. This is to prevent you from suing if something SHOULD happen, even if its not related.

[bunnyslippers]

I feel as though frgsonmysox is getting pushed around a bit. While I appreciate a good debate, I feel like questioning her medications while breast feeding is a bit out of line. She has doctors, and they gave her the go ahead to breast feed. She made the best choice for her and her family. The ability to make choices is what makes this world great!

[Country Kids]

"Lawsuits. Everything has a disclaimer, everything. Read ANY label, they all have disclaimers. This is to prevent you from suing if something SHOULD happen, even if its not related."


So if you find out somewhere down the road that these medications really weren't safe for you to be taking while bf, would you turn around and sue the doctors for telling you it was ok.


I was admitted into the hospital one time while breastfeeding. The ER doctor/my doctor/the ped doctor took me off nursing because what ever they had me on wouldn't have been good for the baby. I was in for a kidney infection. A week or two after everything out of the system I was back breastfeeding. I really don't think I was on anything as potent as what you are on.

[Country Kids]

OK, I just realized Nan isn't even discussing this anymore!

Has she changed her mind on everything?

[Crystal]

OK, I just realized Nan isn't even discussing this anymore!

Has she changed her mind on everything?

I would bet that she is doing her research before replying

[CedarCreek]

Thanks for clearing that up, frogs.

I appreciate it.

[just_peachy]

I was just thinking, there was a day when people drank like fish and smoked like chimneys while pregnant! We're a resilient species, that's for sure. happyface