Am I Morally Or Legally Obligated?

[just_peachy]

I'm genuinely curious what beliefs you're afraid of expressing and commenting on?


If people are educated and confident in their choices I don't understand the hesitation. If someone doesn't like what you have to say so what! You are still entitled to speak your peace and explain your reasoning like anyone else can!

I'm new to the forum, but no rookie to online groups. Here is what I've seen since I joined: social blacklisting of those with opposing views.

The threads they start are commented on less, or commented on with "constructive criticism." Their comments are rarely acknowledged or quoted, even when there is a question attached or an extremely relevant piece of information included.

They often "kill threads." No one comments after they comment.

But I think it's more about the hierarchy and seniority in play than it is belief systems. And it's not just me that feels this way, I know that for a fact.

Generally speaking, experience breeds arrogance 'round these parts.

[Blackcat31]

I'm new to the forum, but no rookie to online groups. Here is what I've seen since I joined: social blacklisting of those with opposing views.

The threads they start are commented on less, or commented on with "constructive criticism." Their comments are rarely acknowledged or quoted, even when there is a question attached or an extremely relevant piece of information included.

They often "kill threads." No one comments after they comment.

But I think it's more about the hierarchy and seniority in play than it is belief systems. And it's not just me that feels this way, I know that for a fact.

Generally speaking, experience breeds arrogance 'round these parts.

Seriously?!? Now I am offended by that. ^^^

[frgsonmysox]

As a person who also lives with a chronic illness that requires strong and toxic medication, I can understand the impact medication has on your choices in regards to child bearing and nursing. It is a tremendously difficult decision to make, and it is something that requires a great deal of diligence and education.

With that being said, I need to emphasize that choosing formula for your child is not a BAD choice. I was never given the option of breast feeding, due to my own medical issues and medications. Whenever I discussed my desire to breast feed with doctors or specialists, I was assured repeatedly that formula-fed infants are just fine. My two boys are healthy, strong, smart young men. They were not harmed by formula, and did not suffer because I did not breast feed. When the pro-breast feeding crowd gets going, I find myself feeling insulted. I have had pro-breast feeding mothers get very offensive with me because I did not breastfeed. These women did not know the reason I did not breast feed, and often lectured me as to what I was doing to harm my baby. For me, that was hurtful and mean. I did what I personally HAD to do for my family. Without my toxic medications, I would die.

Please be kind to one another. Heated debates are fine, and important. But please also remember that every person makes choices based on their own personal needs and desires, and that now everyone feels the same about every issue. Don't cram your agenda, whatever it is, down people's throats. You never know what has led to a personal decision.

I have no issues with people who use formula. I even used formula before, with my oldest. I understand its need, and its great and a huge life saver for many many moms and babies. For ME it was a choice I had to make, and all of MY doctors encouraged me to nurse. I do have doctors who feel similar to how I do on things, as I hope all people do, so that may be a factor.

I'm sorry that you too are on medications. It's not fun. It ****s to think how much our life depends on it.

See now that's just weird to me.

I don't see how I am any different than you as a mother (with the exception of being physically unable to nurse my children for an extended period of time due to hormonal imbalances) and I've never gotten that impression.

There has been debate as to what extent AP can be carried out in a daycare setting, and discussions about how when carried out in extreme and inappropriate ways how it can be detrimental to a child's development but other than that I've never felt any sort of chastised or alone in my beliefs here.


I often see you make remarks like your above in threads like you are totally alone in your belief system, but where there is clearly already expressed and existing support for the exact same things you're saying.

I wonder if it's just a matter of perception that you're missing that you're largely preaching to the choir here?

If I'm preaching to the choir, GREAT! But with nanny going after my posts, as well as others who agree with her - and lets face it Nanny is one of the most outspoken and "loudest" people on this board. So I may be wrong, there may be more AP people, but when the loud and bullyish people are the ones who are speaking the most and the loudest it doesnt' feel that way. So far there has not been a single thread that had to do with AP practices that wasn't pounced on. I was flabbergasted at how much animosity there was by telling a provider she should notify the parents before CIO.

[Crystal]

Nannyd so let me get this straight ...
You were saying toddler (or lets go as far as talking about a preschooler) consuming plenty of very healthy foods (like any other non nursing child's healthy diet) AND ALSO happens to consume breast milk has a less healthy nutrition compared to the child who has the same diet but without breastmilk? The breast milk is a healthy suppliment full of good stuff!
If anything, that child who is drinking mommies (or even donor milk) milk is at a better advantage!
I am defending breastmilk as being healthy for any childs age . This is coming from someone who disagrees with the OP posts and who is not ap and usually enjoys and agrees with nannyd's posts. As a lsctavist and extended breastfeeding advocate I cant sit back and not say anything. I am still nursing my 18 month old. Its not as often and he eats full meals of table food and everything but if he wants to nurse until he is 4, that is ok by me! same for if we are in public . people need to be more educated on the nutrtional value of breastmilk. If there are problems and the mom tries her best and fails I AM glsd formuls is there as a last resort. For the Person above who had her placenta still inside het, after a c section,and the baby was born early::
Having part of the placenta left , was your biggest reason you couldnt make milk. The baby being pre mature was probably equal of an impact due to very likely having latch issues,low mudcle tone,tounge tie,

I haven't seen anything from Nan that inidicates she feels the way you say.....which I put in bold above....

[just_peachy]

Seriously?!? Now I am offended by that. ^^^

*generally speaking, my perception has been that experience breeds arrogance, with several fantastic exceptions.

I base this off of the frequent "kids these days/society these days" comments, in regards to both providers and actual children.

[Crystal]

I'm new to the forum, but no rookie to online groups. Here is what I've seen since I joined: social blacklisting of those with opposing views. If this were true, I'd have been "blacklisted" a LONG time ago! Seriously, like from day one. But, I've been around for awhile now. I guess it's one of those, "if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen" situations. ::


The threads they start are commented on less, or commented on with "constructive criticism." Their comments are rarely acknowledged or quoted, even when there is a question attached or an extremely relevant piece of information included.I think the "constructive criticism" you speak of is EXACTLY that. It is advice given from those who have been at this for YEARS trying to help out rookies in the field. Not always the case, for sure, but generally speaking, it is. And, I think the lack of responses is often times due to the fact that many of the issues have been discussed multiple times, in which case Michael or Blackcat or another member will point them to a thread that might answer their questions.

They often "kill threads." No one comments after they comment.

But I think it's more about the hierarchy and seniority in play than it is belief systems. And it's not just me that feels this way, I know that for a fact. Certainly. But, for those who have dedicated a LOT of time here to be of assistance to others, well they tend to be valued and respected members. It's no different IRL.

Generally speaking, experience breeds arrogance 'round these parts.

And there ya go.

[Willow]

Seriously?!? Now I am offended by that. ^^^

See now I'm not offended so much as flabbergasted, because in my view things have been exactly the opposite - "I have no kids and haven't done childcare a day in my life but I'm going to come in here and tell you exactly what you're doing wrong" business going on lately.

Of course people are going to go on the defensive about that, as they should.

It's rude as all get out and I can't imagine coming off like that to any of my colleagues regardless of their experience level.

New or unregistered posters have been going off on tangents about how stupid, mean and or lazy veteran posters are when (although we have our beefs sometimes (which we quickly rebound and move on from)) anything is said in defense of those attacks all of a sudden they're "scared" or intimidated claiming they can't voice their opinions......seriously? Give me a break.

If you're going to dish out the nastiness you better be prepared to defend it.

[just_peachy]

New or unregistered posters have been going off on tangents about how stupid, mean and or lazy veteran posters are when.

I haven't witnessed any of that. That WOULD be inappropriate.

There's definitely a divide between the "old school" and the "new school." I have seen more negative spouted about how much things have changed than positive. It's the normal progression of life. Every generation feels that way. It's just rearing its ugly head on these forums. I think the "new school" would feel a lot less hostile if they felt like they were being heard. Even a "I see your point, but I disagree." It doesn't happen that way, not even close. So yes, defensiveness absolutely arises. It's a shame, we're all guilty, hopefully we can all admit to that.

[allsmiles]

As a person who also lives with a chronic illness that requires strong and toxic medication, I can understand the impact medication has on your choices in regards to child bearing and nursing. It is a tremendously difficult decision to make, and it is something that requires a great deal of diligence and education.

With that being said, I need to emphasize that choosing formula for your child is not a BAD choice. I was never given the option of breast feeding, due to my own medical issues and medications. Whenever I discussed my desire to breast feed with doctors or specialists, I was assured repeatedly that formula-fed infants are just fine. My two boys are healthy, strong, smart young men. They were not harmed by formula, and did not suffer because I did not breast feed. When the pro-breast feeding crowd gets going, I find myself feeling insulted. I have had pro-breast feeding mothers get very offensive with me because I did not breastfeed. These women did not know the reason I did not breast feed, and often lectured me as to what I was doing to harm my baby. For me, that was hurtful and mean. I did what I personally HAD to do for my family. Without my toxic medications, I would die.

Please be kind to one another. Heated debates are fine, and important. But please also remember that every person makes choices based on their own personal needs and desires, and that now everyone feels the same about every issue. Don't cram your agenda, whatever it is, down people's throats. You never know what has led to a personal decision.

This is so on point bunny.. i think the WAY ppl respond is what makes things worse..i think for the most part ppl dont mind a difference of opinion between forum members..its only when that different opinion is all of a sudden perceived as stupid or evil that it gets out of hand.. Im sure alot of ppl have had successful children and dcks whether they breastfeed or not or AP parent or not.. no need to prepare a case for those issues here??
i still can have a great discussion about whatever the topic is without trying to demonize everyone that doesnt believe the same thing.. Im sorry you guys feel your opinions are treated unfairly.. i am alot more strict in my direction of children and that puts me in a minority as well i think, but it only means that when it comes to THOSE kinds of topics, i hold my tongue, i dont have to be apart of EVERY discussion, especially when i know i cant be of any help, only starting an arguement.. i still feel like i have a place here if nothing else but to laugh LOL

[Crystal]

I haven't witnessed any of that. That WOULD be inappropriate.

There's definitely a divide between the "old school" and the "new school." I have seen more negative spouted about how much things have changed than positive. It's the normal progression of life. Every generation feels that way. It's just rearing its ugly head on these forums.

I think, for the most part, everyone is pretty respectful of each other. Some of us just speak louder than others. I know I, as a veteran provider, have learned things from newer providers....I have even made a couple of program changes. BUT, I have also learned from veteran providers too, and would certainly look to someone who has been at it for a long time FIRST.

What you refer to with how things have changed over the years in regards to children AND parent's behavior. It's the truth.......children are less capable of "coping" and exhibiting socially acceptable behavior than previous generations and parents are coddling much more than previous generations. I see it with each new group I get......it seems with every new group comes a whole new set of behaviors that I have not previously encountered in 16 years of working with children and families.

[MissAnn]

As a person who also lives with a chronic illness that requires strong and toxic medication, I can understand the impact medication has on your choices in regards to child bearing and nursing. It is a tremendously difficult decision to make, and it is something that requires a great deal of diligence and education.

With that being said, I need to emphasize that choosing formula for your child is not a BAD choice. I was never given the option of breast feeding, due to my own medical issues and medications. Whenever I discussed my desire to breast feed with doctors or specialists, I was assured repeatedly that formula-fed infants are just fine. My two boys are healthy, strong, smart young men. They were not harmed by formula, and did not suffer because I did not breast feed. When the pro-breast feeding crowd gets going, I find myself feeling insulted. I have had pro-breast feeding mothers get very offensive with me because I did not breastfeed. These women did not know the reason I did not breast feed, and often lectured me as to what I was doing to harm my baby. For me, that was hurtful and mean. I did what I personally HAD to do for my family. Without my toxic medications, I would die.

Please be kind to one another. Heated debates are fine, and important. But please also remember that every person makes choices based on their own personal needs and desires, and that now everyone feels the same about every issue. Don't cram your agenda, whatever it is, down people's throats. You never know what has led to a personal decision.

Hey Bunnyslippers, I wanted to breast feed my first child so much it hurt! Well, we adopted her. We had 3 days notice to pick her up in another state. I had been pumping my breasts for months in anticipation. No milk, but I was still hopeful. Well, a 2.5 month old bottle fed baby does not want a boob! LOL. So we bottle fed and I still felt like a failure!

We are just too hard on ourselves. Love your babies and teach them awesome things and most of all.....learn awesomeness from them. It's not all about how they are fed.

I earned brownie points later by homeschooling her! LOL
Oh, and then when owe had my son I nursed him till 2 mainly in private but if in public I covered up. I didn't need to prove any points. Its easy to cover up!

[My3cents]

I'm new to the forum, but no rookie to online groups. Here is what I've seen since I joined: social blacklisting of those with opposing views.

The threads they start are commented on less, or commented on with "constructive criticism." Their comments are rarely acknowledged or quoted, even when there is a question attached or an extremely relevant piece of information included.

They often "kill threads." No one comments after they comment.

But I think it's more about the hierarchy and seniority in play than it is belief systems. And it's not just me that feels this way, I know that for a fact.

Generally speaking, experience breeds arrogance 'round these parts.

This is your view. OK- I don't agree

I have tons of experience and years in this field- but I don't fall into the cookie cutter mold. I often throw in my 3cents and more- I don't expect after I have said something, that does not agree with someone else, for them to be buddy buddy with me. Not how the real world works. It takes people a little time to come around. Some never do. That is ok. Sometimes I stand strongly on what I believe in and it just doesn't mesh with someone else- that is ok. I think threads are killed from lack of interest from the peanut galleries. Sometimes all that can be said is said. I also think looking up to our Seniors is not a bad theory in itself. I also feel learning new is good too. But..... some of the new stuff out there is lacking good common sense because someone that did not have this in the first place ruined it for everyone else--- I just strive for a balance for what works for me. If I hurt someone I try to own up to it, but if I have a passion for what I believe in sometimes I am willing to walk away with feelings at hand. I can't please everyone but I can try to get my point across as nicely as possible. I fall short at times- What is it you are looking for in this piece? More information for what? What am I missing here that made this post come about?

[MyAngels]

Generally speaking, experience breeds arrogance 'round these parts.

Speaking of arrogance...

[just_peachy]

I think, for the most part, everyone is pretty respectful of each other. Some of us just speak louder than others. I know I, as a veteran provider, have learned things from newer providers....I have even made a couple of program changes. BUT, I have also learned from veteran providers too, and would certainly look to someone who has been at it for a long time FIRST.

What you refer to with how things have changed over the years in regards to children AND parent's behavior. It's the truth.......children are less capable of "coping" and exhibiting socially acceptable behavior than previous generations and parents are coddling much more than previous generations. I see it with each new group I get......it seems with every new group comes a whole new set of behaviors that I have not previously encountered in 16 years of working with children and families.

Right, that's what I'm saying, every generation has said the same thing, it's quoted all over the place. And I don't completely disagree about kids' behavioral changes, but I think there's more at play than "parenting styles." Food, nutrition, an early focus on schooling, two parents out of the home, "broken" homes, debt, the economy, environmental pollutants...

I believe that if we took away all external stresses, and allowed parents to just PARENT, the method or style would be almost moot, obviously abuse excluded. I think "love is all you need" applies to the parent/child relationship the most!

I don't want to create an even greater divide, but I have also read a lot of negative comments about parents who work outside the home. It ****s that so many HAVE to. Today's economy is so different, things happened, choices were made, and the Gen-Yers and beyond are reeling from them. Every generation is DIFFERENT. With different priorities, different beliefs, different sources of stress, different struggles, different advantages. And I think that's okay. It's the natural evolution of society.

[My3cents]

*generally speaking, my perception has been that experience breeds arrogance, with several fantastic exceptions.

I base this off of the frequent "kids these days/society these days" comments, in regards to both providers and actual children.

What am I missing? I must be out to lunch-

Can you explain the bolded more-

AP if that is for you great and wonderful, it is not for everyone and that is ok too.