Throwing Toys Over The Gate

[Cat Herder]

"DAP" is a marketed product that funds a political organization. I am very familiar.

Crystal, I also was not talking specifically to you... Just the constant gang mentality... YKWIM?

Erik Erickson is one of my favorites as I only deal with birth-3, so I do appreciate what you are saying, fully....

[kendallina]

Why is it so difficult for people to understand that the NAEYC is but one of many groups selling their theory's???

Why does it always come down to throwing colors????:confused::confused:

Go team blue!!

NAEYC is not a theory. Their principles are researched based, which is why so many early childhood educators use their principles to help guide their practice. I use several different theories (which is whole other thing) in my practice as well. It comes down to what's good for children and what's not. And, while there is a huge continuum of what works and what doesn't, there is also the tip of the spectrum that is just so far away from what's acceptable for children's development that it is just inappropriate.

I have no idea what throwing colors means .... :confused::confused:

[Crystal]

"DAP" is a marketed product that funds a political organization. I am very familiar.

Crystal, I also was not talking specifically to you... Just the constant gang mentality... YKWIM?

Erik Erickson is one of my favorites as I only deal with birth-3, so I do appreciate what you are saying, fully....

Oh, I wasn't referring to you either...it was actually JenNJ post. And someone else earlier said something about following one theory as well, but I'm too lazy to go look it up.

[Cat Herder]

Oh, I wasn't referring to you either...it was actually JenNJ post. And someone else earlier said something about following one theory as well, but I'm too lazy to go look it up.

Understood. I just would like to be able to discuss the actual hands on, case specific, stuff without constant pressure to pick sides

[SilverSabre25]

I forget which thread it's on, but whoever brought up the possibility of a 28-day cycle of craziness around here was probably right. I believe our last big "blow up" was about a month ago, maybe a little more.

See, just goes to show you, sometimes it *is* nature over nurture...

[Lucy]

This discussion is crazy and one of the reasons that I rarely respond to discipline threads on the board. I cannot imagine making a boundary for no reason. The issue has nothing to do with getting close to a gate. The issue has to do with a 1-year old doing a very developmentally appropriate activity of throwing toys over a gate, something that helps him learn cause and effect. The boundaries that some providers make for children are so needlessly stifling and just don't seem to make any sense. So, if you create a tape boundary then you are creating several new issues that the provider has to deal with...what if he puts a foot on the tape, what if he drops a toy inside the taped line, what if he has a great pitching arm and gets the toy over the gate anyways (we've all known plenty of toddlers who can do this). It's just creating more issues for the provider and for the child to have to worry about. I would hate to have to walk on eggshells at some of our providers houses.

The suggestions of giving him a laundry basket to drop toys into is a great idea. Also, if he continues to drop items over the gate, then it's over the gate and gone and he can watch it from his side of the gate. Cause and effect. He'll soon no longer drop the toys that he really wants and soon he'll be done with this stage.

And, yes, many of the suggestions for how to work with children on this board deserve a nice little eye roll so here you go . Call it disrespectful or whatever you all would like, but I would rather be disrespectful to providers who don't care enough about their children to educate themselves on proper ways of working with children then to sit back here while inappropriate advice gets doled out time and time again.

I love this. Every word of it. They are taking one problem (toys over gate) and adding another (don't cross boundary). So now you have two discipline issues to deal with. You just created more work for yourself. Micro-managing.

[mac60]

I come here and read, and tonight I laugh. Yep, pry a blow up about a month ago, and usually the same ones.

I am old school as mentioned above, and proud of it. My kids were never allowed to be disrespectful, rude, inconsiderate and anything else these so called children are of today are allowed to do. If they were, there was a consequence for it, and it wasn't a 3 minute time out. In my day, when you did something wrong, there was a consequence for the bad behavior, and as a child you thought twice before you did that behavior again. Young children of today have very little respect for elders, people in general, things, belongings, I could go on and on. It shows in our school systems, in our church youth groups, when we are in stores, etc. It is a sad situation. But hey, everyone can go on about their day and think that the new systems on child rearing are working....and I can go on laughing. Taking discipline out of schools, homes, and society in general is really a bad thing.

And while we are bragging about our education......I would like to say..... I just completed my Activity Director Certification....Whoaho!!!!

[JenNJ]

I wasn't referring to anyone in particular. I was simply saying that its good to read and research all different kinds ochildcare books, articles, and studies. It helps all of us grow as providers. If I was referring to someone in particular, I would have quoted them.

[nannyde]

NAEYC is not a theory. Their principles are researched based, which is why so many early childhood educators use their principles to help guide their practice. I use several different theories (which is whole other thing) in my practice as well. It comes down to what's good for children and what's not. And, while there is a huge continuum of what works and what doesn't, there is also the tip of the spectrum that is just so far away from what's acceptable for children's development that it is just inappropriate.

I have no idea what throwing colors means .... :confused::confused:

And see here is wherein the problem lies.

When I was trained thru CCRC twice on DAP I ASKED for the research used for the class.

I went home and I fully read the 26 research articles they used to support their theory. Out of 26... 23 were studies on poor underprivledged children. I don't serve that population. I won't make decisions for care based on a population that does not attend my care.

I know there is value in learning the NAYEC's version of DAP. I think it's great that it is available as an education and a practice. What I think you guys aren't getting is that there are MILLIONS of daycare arrangements that are not based on EDUCATING kids. There are millions of daycare arrangements where not a penny is passed from parent to provider to educate the kids.

What is “developmentally appropriate practice”?
As NAEYC defines it, developmentally appropriate practice (DAP) is a framework of principles and guidelines for best practice in the care and education of young children, birth through age 8. It is grounded both in the research on how young children develop and learn and in what is known about educational effectiveness. The principles and guidelines outline practice that promotes young children’s optimal learning and development.

The core of developmentally appropriate practice is intentionality in making the many long-term and short-term decisions that add up to “practice that promotes young children’s optimal learning and development.” To make good decisions, teachers must take into consideration what they know (1) about child development and learning; (2) about each child as an individual; and (3) about the social and cultural contexts each child lives in.

The guidelines for developmentally appropriate practice address decision making in five key practice areas: (1) Creating a caring community of learners; (2) Teaching to enhance development and learning; (3) Planning curriculum to achieve important goals; (4) Assessing children’s development and learning; and (5) Establishing reciprocal relationships with families.

There are millions of providers who are NOT teachers. You believe this is the only way but you are not understanding that many of us are coming to this business where our focus is CARE based. You can CARE for kids with excellent supervision, excellent food, exercise, discipline, and love without being a TEACHER.

There is an assumption that our relationship must be education yet there are millions of people out there who provide excellent CARE and leave the education to YOU.

I'm not knocking your education or your belief system. I'm truly not. I'm saying that you are a teacher and I am not. I'm a babysitter who does great care. As one of my favorite client says "I just want someone to watch my kid while I'm at work". There are people who really value THAT and want THAT for the first five years.

[SandeeAR]

I know there is value in learning the NAYEC's version of DAP. I think it's great that it is available as an education and a practice. What I think you guys aren't getting is that there are MILLIONS of daycare arrangements that are not based on EDUCATING kids. There are millions of daycare arrangements where not a penny is passed from parent to provider to educate the kids.


There are millions of providers who are NOT teachers. You believe this is the only way but you are not understanding that many of us are coming to this business where our focus is CARE based. You can CARE for kids with excellent supervision, excellent food, exercise, discipline, and love without being a TEACHER.

There is an assumption that our relationship must be education yet there are millions of people out there who provide excellent CARE and leave the education to YOU.

I'm not knocking your education or your belief system. I'm truly not. I'm saying that you are a teacher and I am not. I'm a babysitter who does great care. As one of my favorite client says "I just want someone to watch my kid while I'm at work". There are people who really value THAT and want THAT for the first five years.

AMEN!! AMEN!!! AMEN!!! You just said what I have been thinking all along!!!!

[QualiTcare]

teaching doesn't just mean learning to write a story or memorizing math facts.

when you help a child learn to hold a cup or use the potty or button their coat - you are teaching them. you don't have to be a "teacher" to do that.

there are developmentally appropriate AND inappropriate ways to do all of those things and more. for example, making a kid sit on the potty for an hour and punishing them if they have an accident is developmentally inappropriate. teaching a kid to zip their coat by giving them their jacket and telling them they can't go outside until they figure it out would be inappropriate. letting them practice with buttons and zippers would be the developmentally appropriate way to teach those skills.

so you can definitely follow developmentally appropriate guidelines without even going near the world of academics.

what i find funny is that people so easily discredit what "early childhood professionals" have to say about teaching, training, caring for young children -or whatever you want to call it. they think simply giving birth and/or caring for a couple kids qualifies them as professionals in the field. people have no issue taking advice from lawyers about the law or doctors about medical issues, but if someone trained in the field of early childhood offers advice - it's blown off if it's "not the way my mama did it."

some of the "old school" ways worked and still do - just like some of the old school way people healed wounds and cared for sick people worked and still do, but having common sense AND the knowledge that comes with education/research makes for the best mix IMO - that's if one is willing to consider that someone (whether it be a doctor or a teacher) might have a better way of doing things. people just have a hard time accepting that they might be doing something "wrong" especially when it comes to caring for children because MOST people are mothers and no mother wants to consider the fact that someone else might know more than they do about children. it's an ego thing.

[SilverSabre25]

teaching doesn't just mean learning to write a story or memorizing math facts.

when you help a child learn to hold a cup or use the potty or button their coat - you are teaching them. you don't have to be a "teacher" to do that.

there are developmentally appropriate AND inappropriate ways to do all of those things and more. for example, making a kid sit on the potty for an hour and punishing them if they have an accident is developmentally inappropriate. teaching a kid to zip their coat by giving them their jacket and telling them they can't go outside until they figure it out would be inappropriate. letting them practice with buttons and zippers would be the developmentally appropriate way to teach those skills.

so you can definitely follow developmentally appropriate guidelines without even going near the world of academics.

what i find funny is that people so easily discredit what "early childhood professionals" have to say about teaching, training, caring for young children -or whatever you want to call it. they think simply giving birth and/or caring for a couple kids qualifies them as professionals in the field. people have no issue taking advice from lawyers about the law or doctors about medical issues, but if someone trained in the field of early childhood offers advice - it's blown off if it's "not the way my mama did it."

some of the "old school" ways worked and still do - just like some of the old school way people healed wounds and cared for sick people worked and still do, but having common sense AND the knowledge that comes with education/research makes for the best mix IMO - that's if one is willing to consider that someone (whether it be a doctor or a teacher) might have a better way of doing things. people just have a hard time accepting that they might be doing something "wrong" especially when it comes to caring for children because MOST people are mothers and no mother wants to consider the fact that someone else might know more than they do about children. it's an ego thing.

ditto! and stated much better than I could have. The bolded part (bolding mine) is a GREAT example of what I've been sitting here trying to figure out how to say.

[SandeeAR]

teaching doesn't just mean learning to write a story or memorizing math facts.

when you help a child learn to hold a cup or use the potty or button their coat - you are teaching them. you don't have to be a "teacher" to do that.

there are developmentally appropriate AND inappropriate ways to do all of those things and more. for example, making a kid sit on the potty for an hour and punishing them if they have an accident is developmentally inappropriate. teaching a kid to zip their coat by giving them their jacket and telling them they can't go outside until they figure it out would be inappropriate. letting them practice with buttons and zippers would be the developmentally appropriate way to teach those skills.

so you can definitely follow developmentally appropriate guidelines without even going near the world of academics.

what i find funny is that people so easily discredit what "early childhood professionals" have to say about teaching, training, caring for young children -or whatever you want to call it. they think simply giving birth and/or caring for a couple kids qualifies them as professionals in the field. people have no issue taking advice from lawyers about the law or doctors about medical issues, but if someone trained in the field of early childhood offers advice - it's blown off if it's "not the way my mama did it."

some of the "old school" ways worked and still do - just like some of the old school way people healed wounds and cared for sick people worked and still do, but having common sense AND the knowledge that comes with education/research makes for the best mix IMO - that's if one is willing to consider that someone (whether it be a doctor or a teacher) might have a better way of doing things. people just have a hard time accepting that they might be doing something "wrong" especially when it comes to caring for children because MOST people are mothers and no mother wants to consider the fact that someone else might know more than they do about children. it's an ego thing.

I gave up trying to keep the piece, but I feel a lot of this was aimed at me. I have NEVER discredited the ones textbooked trained. That said MANY of the textbook trained, constantly put down those of us who aren't. As for the comment about" MOST people are mothers and no mother wants to consider the fact that someone else might know more than they do about children. it's an ego thing".

It is NOT an ego thing with me. Being a MOTHER is the thing I am MOST proud of in my life! I don't feel I know everything, if I did, I would have NEVER posted ANY thread on the board, asking for ideas. However, there are ppl on this board, that ONLY answer questions and I have NEVER seen them ask a question. Seems as tho, they are the ones with the EGOS that know everything.

Ok, I am now walking away from this thread. I won't post on it again. Do as you will.

[AfterSchoolMom]

Wow! I appreciate everyone's viewpoints on this board, and think that there are good and bad aspects of every approach to child care and development. I think debate is a great thing. However, I think that this thread has really gotten blown out of proportion, and this wasn't my intention at all. The toy throwing was not that big of a deal... Really!

I guess I should feel happy that a thread that I started got to many replies.

[dEHmom]

Should I shut my doors, and take down my ads and signs, and stop caring for these babies (yes 1 -2 yos) because I allow more free form, no true academics, but basic skills, kinderstart (abcs, 123s, row row row your boat), tie your shoe, hold your spoon, put your socks on? (rhetorical)

Am I a bad provider because I don't attend yearly training courses, and sometimes I serve mac & cheese? (rhetorical)

Seems to me this is where this convo is heading. :confused:

I agree with nanny that everyone is different in the care that they provide.
Some provide CARE and some provide ECE in academics like math, etc.

I don't agree with everything nanny says, or does, but she runs a successful business that caters to families who are looking for that sort of thing.

I run a successful business that caters to families who are looking for my sort of thing.

Maybe where I live, a lot of the daycares/dayhomes are just that. Care. Not preschools. If you want academics you go to a center labeled an academy, institution or a preschool.

My personal belief, and I don't care if you guys agree or not, is that children need to be children. They need to play, and learn to interact. They do not need to know 90% of the stuff they are taught in school in the first 2 years (k and gr. 1). My daughter's report card was AMAZING!!!!! she is in Gr. 1, yet she needs improvement on her writing neatness. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?! she writes neater than many many many adults. The amount of responsibility and learning on these kids now days is ridonculonk and I am allowing my children to spend every minute they can being kids while they can. The things my daughter learned in kindergarten was what we learned in grade 3 and 4. It disgusts me.


Edit:

If I was to provide what alot of you guys provide, I would probably start charging about 45/day.