Throwing Toys Over The Gate

[Zoe]

I really don't understand why some of you are getting so defensive about your practices. They are yours and obviously work for you as you have wonderful parents and kids who appreciate you. No one is the same, just as all kids are different as well. Maybe I'm missing it, but where did I see anyone attacked for NOT "teaching" kids? I'm a former teacher, but went into the daycare field. It was my personal choice to do some curriculum stuff, but honestly, some days, I just let the kids do what they want. No judgment for those who teach. No judgment for those who don't. To each his own!

dehMom, no one is saying you are a bad provider.

Breathe everyone. Breathe!

[jen]

I gave up trying to keep the piece, but I feel a lot of this was aimed at me. I have NEVER discredited the ones textbooked trained. That said MANY of the textbook trained, constantly put down those of us who aren't. As for the comment about" MOST people are mothers and no mother wants to consider the fact that someone else might know more than they do about children. it's an ego thing".

It is NOT an ego thing with me. Being a MOTHER is the thing I am MOST proud of in my life! I don't feel I know everything, if I did, I would have NEVER posted ANY thread on the board, asking for ideas. However, there are ppl on this board, that ONLY answer questions and I have NEVER seen them ask a question. Seems as tho, they are the ones with the EGOS that know everything.

Ok, I am now walking away from this thread. I won't post on it again. Do as you will.

For the record, I understood your post from the beginning. I just think some of the posters have gotten so far up on their high horse, that they aren't actually hearing anyone else so I stopped posting.

In any case, I totally understood your point.

[dEHmom]

HAHA thanks Zoe, No I wasn't getting defensive, I should go back and put some smilies.

I was just making a point, and they were rhetorical questions

I'm just saying, this is where some of us bump heads. Because some of us are into the academics, some of us not. This, I believe is where a lot of the confusion, confrontation, and anger is stemming from.

WE ALL need to be more specific in our posts to state that it's what we do, not what everyone MUST do, or that it's the right way vs. wrong way.

[Zoe]

HAHA thanks Zoe, No I wasn't getting defensive, I should go back and put some smilies.

I was just making a point, and they were rhetorical questions

I'm just saying, this is where some of us bump heads. Because some of us are into the academics, some of us not. This, I believe is where a lot of the confusion, confrontation, and anger is stemming from.

WE ALL need to be more specific in our posts to state that it's what we do, not what everyone MUST do.

Agreed! That's why I love this forum. I learn things from others based on their vastly different backgrounds and experiences. We are each other's best resources imo. Here's some extra smiley faces for ya!

[jen]

So I just want to ask something.....


Should I shut my doors, and take down my ads and signs, and stop caring for these babies (yes 1 -2 yos) because I allow more free form, no true academics, but basic skills, kinderstart (abcs, 123s, row row row your boat), tie your shoe, hold your spoon, put your socks on?

Am I a bad provider because I don't attend yearly training courses, and sometimes I serve mac & cheese?

Seems to me this is where this convo is heading.

I agree with nanny that everyone is different in the care that they provide.
Some provide CARE and some provide ECE in academics like math, etc.

I don't agree with everything nanny says, or does, but she runs a successful business that caters to families who are looking for that sort of thing.

I run a successful business that caters to families who are looking for my sort of thing.

Maybe where I live, alot of the daycares/dayhomes are just that. Care. Not preschools. If you want academics you go to an academy or a preschool.

My personal belief, and I don't care if you guys agree or not, is that children need to be children. They need to play, and learn to interact. They do not need to know 90% of the stuff they are taught in school in the first 2 years (k and gr. 1). My daughter's report card was AMAZING!!!!! she is in Gr. 1, yet she needs improvement on her writing neatness. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?! she writes neater than many many many adults. The amount of responsibility and learning on these kids now days is ridonculonk and I am allowing my children to spend every minute they can being kids while they can. The things my daughter learned in kindergarten was what we learned in grade 3 and 4. It disgusts me.


Edit:

If I was to provide what alot of you guys provide, I would probably start charging about 45/day.

First of all...really and truly, you should dismiss the high horse group; some are so convinced of their own rightness that common sense could invite them out to tea and they wouldn't hear the doorbell ring.

On another note, while I understand why you disagreed with me on my Cesar thread, the frustration you are feeling right now, is the frustration that led me to post it. Not to hurt anyones feelings, but in an attempt to get a few specific others to try to see the other side of the coin.

It may not have been right, but I do stand behind it.

[Unregistered]

I visit 3 other childcare/pre-school forums and on two of them they have links to this site making fun of the all out word-wars/arguments that go on on this site! Some frequent comments include:
"Check out the rudeness of posters on this site!"
"Read this link (Daycare.com) and see why providers get no respect."
"As a parent, I would be livid if my provider alked like this!"
"I can't believe how full of themselves some of the people on this site are; and they call themselves teachers!!!"
"Most it is on the level of 'My dad can beat up your dad' mentality."

Just thought you guys would want to know! LOL!!!

[Symphony]

teaching doesn't just mean learning to write a story or memorizing math facts.

when you help a child learn to hold a cup or use the potty or button their coat - you are teaching them. you don't have to be a "teacher" to do that.

there are developmentally appropriate AND inappropriate ways to do all of those things and more. for example, making a kid sit on the potty for an hour and punishing them if they have an accident is developmentally inappropriate. teaching a kid to zip their coat by giving them their jacket and telling them they can't go outside until they figure it out would be inappropriate. letting them practice with buttons and zippers would be the developmentally appropriate way to teach those skills.

so you can definitely follow developmentally appropriate guidelines without even going near the world of academics.

what i find funny is that people so easily discredit what "early childhood professionals" have to say about teaching, training, caring for young children -or whatever you want to call it. they think simply giving birth and/or caring for a couple kids qualifies them as professionals in the field. people have no issue taking advice from lawyers about the law or doctors about medical issues, but if someone trained in the field of early childhood offers advice - it's blown off if it's "not the way my mama did it."

some of the "old school" ways worked and still do - just like some of the old school way people healed wounds and cared for sick people worked and still do, but having common sense AND the knowledge that comes with education/research makes for the best mix IMO - that's if one is willing to consider that someone (whether it be a doctor or a teacher) might have a better way of doing things. people just have a hard time accepting that they might be doing something "wrong" especially when it comes to caring for children because MOST people are mothers and no mother wants to consider the fact that someone else might know more than they do about children. it's an ego thing.

EXACTLY! Thank you!



I would love to know what a child care program that does not teach looks like? I honestly cannot imagine anything (that is not abusive or neglectful) falling into this category. Do your children play with blocks? That's early math. Do your children have sensory tables? Early science. Do you read to them? Early literacy. Do you have more than one child in care? Social-emotional nuturing. Do you ever paint? Art. Do you speak to your children? Launguage and communication. How in the world does a person provide a program that does not teach?

[Blackcat31]

EXACTLY! Thank you!



I would love to know what a child care program that does not teach looks like? I honestly cannot imagine anything (that is not abusive or neglectful) falling into this category. Do your children play with blocks? That's early math. Do your children have sensory tables? Early science. Do you read to them? Early literacy. Do you have more than one child in care? Social-emotional nuturing. Do you ever paint? Art. Do you speak to your children? Launguage and communication. How in the world does a person provide a program that does not teach?

I had a drop in kid who was here only for nap time once......I doubt he learned anything from that. He was asleep when his mom brought him in and still asleep when she picked him up.

Sorry....I was totally being sarcastic. I was trying to lighten the topic up a bit!!

[Zoe]

I had a drop in kid who was here only for nap time once......I doubt he learned anything from that. He was asleep when his mom brought him in and still asleep when she picked him up.

Sorry....I was totally being sarcastic. I was trying to lighten the topic up a bit!!

:::::::: I was trying to do it too, it only worked for an hour! Oh well....

[dEHmom]

EXACTLY! Thank you!



I would love to know what a child care program that does not teach looks like? I honestly cannot imagine anything (that is not abusive or neglectful) falling into this category. Do your children play with blocks? That's early math. Do your children have sensory tables? Early science. Do you read to them? Early literacy. Do you have more than one child in care? Social-emotional nuturing. Do you ever paint? Art. Do you speak to your children? Launguage and communication. How in the world does a person provide a program that does not teach?

LOL!

We are bringing back up the craft store thread again.

Problem is the label "teacher". No matter what everyone IS a teacher, but there is a difference between a classroom teacher and an everyday teacher. I teach my children many things like eating, walking, bike riding, manners, etc. I AM a teacher. But not in the sense that some would perceive it. I would never call myself a teacher if someone asks me what I am. I am a child care provider. I provide them with the nurishment and love and friendship and so many other things.

Everyday, everyone of us is taught something by someone. They were our teacher.

It is sad but there are such things as these homes you are speaking of Where they simply plop children in front of the tv and say they are teaching them spanish, meanwhile it's dora semi teaching them.


But to say "I taught your child math because they played with blocks for 15 mins" isn't the same.

I whole heartedly agree with what you said!!! That is my method of "teaching". I allow them to be construction workers, police officers, nurses, fire fighters, school teachers, mommies, daddies, doctors, librarians, you get my drift. I allow them to play with toys like blocks, lego, pencils/papers, crayons, chalk boards, dry erase boards, etc. They see the letters and decide they want to learn to write their names today.

[Christian Mother]

I just want to say that each and every one of you are a blessing and a gift to these children. It doesn't really matter what type of childcare/daycare you offer bc you take it upon your self to care for child period. I know that sometimes looking on these forums we start to feel unworthy or jealous of what others are doing to better there care. Look at it as hmmm...maybe I can implement it in my daily routine or hmmm no that wouldn't work for me. Listen, each of you have your own system and it works. Take some advise...or don't... Your parents trust your judgment and what you offer for there children. So don't feel put out or upset bc your all doing such a wonderful job!! Your care givers....Mother's I'd like to say. Sometimes yes...babysitters. But really we are Another Mother to all these children. I say that to my parents and I say in such away that it doesn't offend or make them feel guilty that they aren't there instead. I love being able care for children. I'm truly blessed to be doing what I do...and it's a bonus that I get to be home doing what I love.. It's the gift that God game me. I sometimes would like to run from it...!! But...well...you know!!

[QualiTcare]

I gave up trying to keep the piece, but I feel a lot of this was aimed at me. I have NEVER discredited the ones textbooked trained. That said MANY of the textbook trained, constantly put down those of us who aren't. As for the comment about" MOST people are mothers and no mother wants to consider the fact that someone else might know more than they do about children. it's an ego thing".

It is NOT an ego thing with me. Being a MOTHER is the thing I am MOST proud of in my life! I don't feel I know everything, if I did, I would have NEVER posted ANY thread on the board, asking for ideas. However, there are ppl on this board, that ONLY answer questions and I have NEVER seen them ask a question. Seems as tho, they are the ones with the EGOS that know everything.

Ok, I am now walking away from this thread. I won't post on it again. Do as you will.

actually, i never gave a second thought to your post. that was a direct reply to nannyde's message (and just a general comment) talking about "teaching" and "developmentally appropriate" - i thought that was obvious without quotes, but i guess not. it's very interesting that you feel my comment applies to you.

[nannyde]

But, really, how difficult of a problem is this. The toys goes over the gate, the child watches it for the rest of the day or however long and then you and the child put it back in its correct spot at the end of the day.

Because I don't want my toys to be dropped and broken and I don't want kids hanging out in a gated off area that is gated off for safety. I don't want kids in that area. I NEED that area to keep them safe.

Can you not see these two basic principles in this decision? Why can't I protect my HARD earned toys so that generation after generation can play with them?

Why can't I have RULES, boundaries, and limitations on space so I can do the best job I know to do to keep a mutlti level aged group kids safe?

Why is THIS little tiny piece of cause and effect learning more important than keeping the kids safe and protecting my equipment?

When you start saying that it's wrong because it's developmentally inappropriate then you have to address the how the developmental appropriateness outweighs the greater good of a safety plan and protecting equipment.

Can you do that?

I think your view of child development is very old school (and I imagine you are proud that it is) and has no basis in research and what we know about how children grow and develop. I am sorry for the children in your care.

I understand research. I've spent THOUSANDS of hours of my career reading research. Give me ANY research in the area of childhood development that you think I'm not getting and I will devour it and report back... with only ONE stipulation... NO poor children research. I've had enough of that for one life time.


And with that, I am signing off these forums.
Well I'm here to learn so teach. This is an excellent forum for you to teach developmentally appropriate which is one of your passions.

[Blackcat31]

"One test of the correctness of educational procedure is the happiness of the child.” ~Maria Montessori

[dEHmom]

Nannyde...I'm sure you've probably explained this somewhere on this site, maybe I missed it, I'm just curious why you state no poor children research?

I understand often these studies are probably mostly subjected to lower income families. But what is "poor" and why not?


It's not an attack, I am simply curious to your reasoning.

We've always been middle class, but OFTEN middle class (at least here) is the hardest class to be in. I've pondered becoming part of the lower class, and seen how much it would benefit me and my children to do so. Yes I said benefit. The only drawback, I am too proud. I have morals. So I cannot do this.