Biting @ Daycare

[nannyde]

My son will be two in september, he has been bitting since before he got teeth. It started by he would give "kisses" and just close down on your cheek. Well when he got teeth these kisses would hurt, so we did everything we could to put a stop to it! I went to work when he was 8 mths old had no problems with him when he was in the infant room. Then when he got to be a year old he was moved up and he would sometimes bit, well then all of a sudden he starting bitting. He would bite at daycare, at home, anywhere and anybody. He bit me many times and I would try many different things telling him "no", time out, popping, bitting him back, and even popped him in his mouth which I hated but it worked. He stop bitting at home and then after that stopped bitting at daycare.

Well then he started back, he starting bitting everything toys, children, and even himself. But he was still not bitting his father or me. At home he was just bitting his toys or himself so I would try to stay on him about not bitting. Well he stopped bitting again.

No just this week he has started back bitting children at school. He bit muliple times daily and even bit a boy in the face. I truly feel horrible for the other parents and children and I dont want them to think that I am not doing my job, becasue he has still not been bitting at home so I haven't been to punish him more harshly then "time out". I have talked to daycare teachers and director and we do have a plan of using a shadow person and when they can't stand by him then they will place him a play pen.

I don't think me son should be expelled and some of the posts hurt my feelings, I understand people's concerned especially if their child is getting bitten. But there are parents who care and daycares that care. I really hope that we can teach him that it is not ok to bite and to use his words. If this new strategy works I'll let you know!

This is my take on this.. but I could be wrong

No judgement here on your parenting... just giving you my take

A bite to the face is going to be the last frontier in biting. Sorry but that's where the line is clearly drawn.

For the provider it comes down to: loose you or loose the other family. Once a bite to the face happens someone is going to leave. It's easier for them to have you leave because there is a good chance there will be another bite to the face on another kid.

Shadowing isn't going to work. The cost of the person to shadow your kid is more than you pay them. Your salary won't cover three hours of a shadow person a day. They have to make money off of you not loose money. They will do it for a bit to show it doesn't work and get the documentation they need to expel him without worry of repercussions from the state or the parents of the kids who get bit.

They are offering that to cover themselves and to protect themselves for what WILL happen in the future. They aren't doing it because they think it will work.. they are following the ONLY thing they KNOW to do that will show they have done everything they CAN DO. That's for the future upset parents, the documentation they need when they expell him, and the State should they are called by you after they term him or the parents after their kid has been bitten.

Gear up for a termination... they are telling you that they are at the last stage right before they do it. It looks like they are trying to help it or solve it but they KNOW it doesn't work. They just know they HAVE to do this one last thing before they expell him. When they report the next bite they will document that they had an adult right next to him.

Being a parent is HARD. Sometimes we have to give up a lot to do the right thing by our kids and our community. It's time to either stay home with him or hire an adult who can care for him with only way older kids or no kids in the house.

I don't know how to stop a child from biting once they have started. I haven't had a bite in seventeen years here. I've only had one bite in my eighteen years of doing child care. I know how to not get it started but I don't know how to stop it once it has started.

All it took was ONE bite in my first year and I knew that couldn't happen again.

Good luck and if you HAVE to have your kid in care then you need to start interviewing. Make sure you tell them about the bite BEFORE you go to interview. Weed out the ones that can't manage it.

[Christian Mother]

Nan has great advise!! Love it!!

What I would do is inform your work that there might be a week where your going to have to leave early a couple times. They may not care about your personal issues but it's nice to at least give them a heads up and tell your daycare that they need to call you the moment a bit accures. That way you can deal with it on your own or dad for that matter. I used to work at a Christian School and that was the protocol in cases of biting. If your child isn't biting at home anymore it's bc he understands the consequences at home. He doesn't understand that at daycare. As soon as you walk in that door let the teacher bring the child that got bit and your child and then YOU need to address it with him w/the child that got bit. Others may not like this but you can take him out of the class room and to the bathroom where you spank him or you smack his hand or smack his mouth. Which ever works for you. With my son when he went through the biting faze he got suspended for daycare for 3 days and my husband picked him up from there right away at home my husband bit his arm. Not hard but enough pressure to understand that yes..that does hurt doesn't it. We never had another bit after that!! So he understood that biting hurts. Seems like since you dealt with it at home maybe taking the same steps you have at home need to be applied at daycare. Good luck!!

[rhymia1]

I guess I don’t understand the problem with shadowing? When a child in my care needs to be shadowed, that means they come with me, and help me do all the things I need to do. If they can't come with me (if I'm assisting another child in with toileting, etc.) they are in the high chair or pack and play with activity/toys. It doesn't disrupt *my* day at all. Admittedly I've only had a few random incidences and not serial biters. But kids in my care quickly learn that being with Ms. K all day is boring::

And what if the biter is the provider's own child (in the case of home care?) you can't usually terminate your own child...
To be clear I'm talking about age appropriate toddler biting, because if it were not age appropriate (older children biting) then I would terminate.

[nannyde]

I guess I don’t understand the problem with shadowing? When a child in my care needs to be shadowed, that means they come with me, and help me do all the things I need to do. If they can't come with me (if I'm assisting another child in with toileting, etc.) they are in the high chair or pack and play with activity/toys. It doesn't disrupt *my* day at all. Admittedly I've only had a few random incidences and not serial biters. But kids in my care quickly learn that being with Ms. K all day is boring::

And what if the biter is the provider's own child (in the case of home care?) you can't usually terminate your own child...
To be clear I'm talking about age appropriate toddler biting, because if it were not age appropriate (older children biting) then I would terminate.

It's too costly and finding staff willing to do all their other duties and keep a one year old next to them for weeks on end is very unrealistic.

It's good in theory but it doesn't really work in real life. Having an adult follow a one year old around is expensive. Having a one year old follow an adult around is deveolpmentally inapropriate for that child. No child that age should be following an adult doing foundational care for a group of children. He shouldn't be going with her the thirty times she has to wash her hands... the twenty times she changes diapers... the sixty times she has to GO to redirect a child off of another kid or off of inapropriate toys play... the four times she has to go to the phone... the three times she cleans the table... the two times she sets up lunch.... and on and on and on

It's just not appropriate for the kid to have to follow around an adult. Even if they did it for three weeks... a month... it doesn't give any indication that the day he's allowed to not be within feet of the adult or having an adult litterally with eyes on him every second that he's not going to lash out and bite someone on the face.

Group care should never mean that an adult has to have their visual directly on one kid all day for any length of time. The idea of group care is that it is SHARED attention. Either way of shadowing puts an undo burden on the staff and is not funded with regular tuition. It defies the premise of group care.

We are within a few feet of the kids at all time when they are playing but we do NOT have an adult set of eyes on any one kid all day long. That's just too costly. The adult has to use all of their senses to care for a group of kids. There are many many times a day when each individual child is being supervised by auditory supervision and proximity but not direct visual supervision. (For example... when we are changing a diaper... we are looking at the business end of the kid being changed... At that time the other kids are close but we don't have our EYES on them. During meals we are bringing each kid to the table... bibbing them... scooting them into the table... and giving them their grub. When we are doing each step of that we have our yes on THAT kid as we perform each one of those parts of the task. It may be two seconds here.. five seconds there.. .. twenty seconds here... but that's ALL it takes for a face bite. It happens in a couple of seconds.)

I personally would not pay for shadowing. IME it's just something TO DO in the process of terming a kid, satisfying the bitee parents, and the State. Not saying it NEVER works... but for the most part it's just treading water till the Center can prove without a reasonable doubt that they can't safely have the biter on site.

As long as the parents of the bitee will allow their kid to get bit it will work out. Once the money from those parents are at risk the shadowing goes into full affect as the first step of out the door.

[rhymia1]

Group care should never mean that an adult has to have their visual directly on one kid all day for any length of time. The idea of group care is that it is SHARED attention.

Ah, I see. My state regs actually *require* that I have visual contact with *all* my children at *all* times. Because this is how it's always been, I make it happen.

Having a one year old follow an adult around is deveolpmentally inapropriate for that child. No child that age should be following an adult doing foundational care for a group of children. He shouldn't be going with her the thirty times she has to wash her hands... the twenty times she changes diapers... the sixty times she has to GO to redirect a child off of another kid or off of inapropriate toys play... the four times she has to go to the phone... the three times she cleans the table... the two times she sets up lunch.... and on and on and on

As for not being developmentally appropriate for a child to be with a provider, I respectfully disagree. Sometimes that little bit of "extra" attention is just what the child needs. In addition, I do think that children *should* help with daily tasks - my kids clean their own plates, assist with cleaning up after activities, water plants etc. This isn't punitive, but part of being in a family. I am a child care provider, not the maid. And I know my clients would much rather their child be with me helping me out, than biting another child.

But again, I'm thinking of the random times this has happened here. If it became a constant issue, wasn't age appropriate, etc. then I might have a different thought.

[nannyde]

Ah, I see. My state regs actually *require* that I have visual contact with *all* my children at *all* times. Because this is how it's always been, I make it happen.

No you don't.

It's physically impossible. There's no possible way you could do tasks that require visual percision to safely do it AND look at EACH of the other kids at the same time.

The visual diversion may be three seconds... fifteen seconds... seven seconds... but that's how long it takes a kid to bite another kids face.

I was VERY specific on what I meant

For example... when we are changing a diaper... we are looking at the business end of the kid being changed... At that time the other kids are close but we don't have our EYES on them. During meals we are bringing each kid to the table... bibbing them... scooting them into the table... and giving them their grub. When we are doing each step of that we have our yes on THAT kid as we perform each one of those parts of the task. It may be two seconds here.. five seconds there.. .. twenty seconds here... but that's ALL it takes for a face bite. It happens in a couple of seconds

There is a difference between having children within your visual FIELD and having visual contac each child with all kids all the time.

You are sitting in a room with a lot of experienced providers. We all know that what you are saying is litterally impossible.

[Country Kids]

Sorry Nan but I'm one that with my set up all the children are in my visual contact at all times. We come to the table at the same time, go outside at the same time, have it set up so I face the children during diaper changing, etc. I did have a bite happen a couple of months ago and the funny thing is it happened as we were doing an activity and I saw the child do it! Last time it happened to because the child realized that I can see everything they do. They were very shocked when right as they were doing it I said "No biting" and removed them to be right by me.

[nannyde]

Sorry Nan but I'm one that with my set up all the children are in my visual contact at all times. We come to the table at the same time, go outside at the same time, have it set up so I face the children during diaper changing, etc. I did have a bite happen a couple of months ago and the funny thing is it happened as we were doing an activity and I saw the child do it! Last time it happened to because the child realized that I can see everything they do. They were very shocked when right as they were doing it I said "No biting" and removed them to be right by me.

I'm not saying you can't be within a visual field of the kids. What I'm saying is there are visually specific care related tasks that need your eyes to be ON a child. It is impossible to care for kids and be able to see all of them at the same time... even if they are standing RIGHT next to you when you are focusing in on one part of the child's body.

It matters because it puts providers into the position where they are held accountable for a level of visual supervision that is impossible physically to do if you have more than one kid.

This issue comes up when there is a bite and it comes up a lot in the "solution" of shadowing.

[Blackcat31]

Sorry Nan but I'm one that with my set up all the children are in my visual contact at all times. We come to the table at the same time, go outside at the same time, have it set up so I face the children during diaper changing, etc. I did have a bite happen a couple of months ago and the funny thing is it happened as we were doing an activity and I saw the child do it! Last time it happened to because the child realized that I can see everything they do. They were very shocked when right as they were doing it I said "No biting" and removed them to be right by me.

I agree with you but I also agree with what Nan is saying, as you are typing today on this forum....you are not making direct visual contact with the kiddos you have in care. They may be in your visual field but you are focused on something else......

[Country Kids]

I agree with you but I also agree with what Nan is saying, as you are typing today on this forum....you are not making direct visual contact with the kiddos you have in care. They may be in your visual field but you are focused on something else......

Only had one and he was sitting by me playing quietly. I'm on here when the I only have one, they are sleeping, or done for the day.

[Kaddidle Care]

I had a biter - my own son. 1st time he was playing with another little boy who was extremely rough and my son didn't know how to handle it. He was about 2 1/2 and he bit his arm. He was removed from play and reprimanded by me. I was shocked.

2nd time he was 3 and playing with his 18 month old cousin. They struggled over a toy, she fell on top of him and he bit her cheek. It was horrible and I felt like the worst mother on earth. Again - he was reprimanded and removed from play. (Thankfully she didn't scar)

3rd time he was in a friend's pool and his friend mocked him and pointed her finger at him and he bit it. At this point he was around 4/5 and I was fit to be tied. I called him over, grabbed his hand and bit his finger. A bigger look of shock you will never see on a child. He was ousted from the pool and brought home and I wouldn't let him forget what he did. I did not draw blood but it was enough to let him know it HURT.

Thankfully it was the last time he ever did it.

While I know you should never bite a child, I'm telling you it's what worked with mine.

We cannot do this in Childcare but we can send them home. Our center has a 3 strike policy on biting. 3 bites = immediate termination.

[nannyde]

Our center has a 3 strike policy on biting. 3 bites = immediate termination.

The good news about that is that it is very clear and unemotional. Parents know upfront that it's not personal. If their kid bites they just can't be THERE. They have to find care for him where he can bite or care where there isn't anyone around to bite.

That kind of policy is WAY better than a big process where the staff has to prove they are doing EVERYTHING they can do to stop it. It puts it directly on the facts... that's it. Three bites you are audi

[Blackcat31]

Only had one and he was sitting by me playing quietly. I'm on here when the I only have one, they are sleeping, or done for the day.

understood.

[JenNJ]

Gear up for a termination... they are telling you that they are at the last stage right before they do it. It looks like they are trying to help it or solve it but they KNOW it doesn't work. They just know they HAVE to do this one last thing before they expel him. When they report the next bite they will document that they had an adult right next to him.

Nan is correct. Shadowing is the last step before termination. In your case, you need to start looking for a nanny NOW. Today. Group care is not going to work with a biter (specifically a FACE biter).

Typically bites happen on the back, shoulders, and arms of other children and usually in response to a frustration and a lack of verbal skills. Face biting is uncommon and in my experience more of a power move. Your child is experimenting with cause and effect. "When I bite my playmate, he screams, the teachers run around, I get attention, and I am in control." Everything in the room stops and all the attention is on your child. Every single time he bites, this is what will happen. In my opinion, bites like this come without warning and there is nothing that can be done to stop it in a group care setting.

Your child needs one on one care for an extended time to stop this behavior. Whether you or your partner stay home full time to deal with it or you hire a nanny to follow your methods, one on one care is the only thing that will stop it at this point.

[rhymia1]

No you don't.

It's physically impossible. There's no possible way you could do tasks that require visual percision to safely do it AND look at EACH of the other kids at the same time.

The visual diversion may be three seconds... fifteen seconds... seven seconds... but that's how long it takes a kid to bite another kids face.

I was VERY specific on what I meant

For example... when we are changing a diaper... we are looking at the business end of the kid being changed... At that time the other kids are close but we don't have our EYES on them. During meals we are bringing each kid to the table... bibbing them... scooting them into the table... and giving them their grub. When we are doing each step of that we have our yes on THAT kid as we perform each one of those parts of the task. It may be two seconds here.. five seconds there.. .. twenty seconds here... but that's ALL it takes for a face bite. It happens in a couple of seconds

There is a difference between having children within your visual FIELD and having visual contac each child with all kids all the time.

You are sitting in a room with a lot of experienced providers. We all know that what you are saying is litterally impossible.

It's not. Like another poster, my set up is so that I can see the children. Areas that I can't see are gated off. I use mirrors for corners (the kids think I'm G*d:: ) When there is going to be a situation where I don't have direct visual contact the children (I need to use the bathroom) the children need to be set up at the table (right outside the bathroom) a child who has bitten would be in the high chair.
I am one who does't use the computer at all when children are awake/here, so that's not an issue.
And I do agree that if it's something more than a week or so of shadowing can help, the child needs to go elsewhere.
But as to the other, I'll agree to disagree at this point, because it's a gorgeous day here and I don't have any kids here