Something Flipped The Bitc# Switch!! HELP!

[Blackcat31]

Oh 1 more thing how do I term immediately? I have always given a 2 week notice in writing and vague on the reason but made sure DCM knew why. For something like this I think I would want it all written in black and white so what do I say how do I write and immediate term notice without all the details? I will need to know and have it ready because I really don't trust this boy now and betting it will be next week.

Thanks again!

DCF

This is letter is written notice of IMMEDIATE termination of your child care services.

At this time, I am unable to provide the care and intervention your child requires while maintaining a safe environment for the other children in care.

Please note, that ALL incidences of violence and aggression that occurred in care on October xx, 2014 has been documented and submitted to licensing.

DCB's belongings have been bagged up and are ready for pick up. A year end receipt for any monies paid to ABC Child Care will be mailed to you after the first of the year.

Sincerely

Provider

Personally, I would term immediately and not provide one single minute more on this.

Mom knows full well what her child is like in daycare and is simply hoping she finds someone that is willing to continue putting up with his bad behavior so that she can say if one person can manage him then it HAS to be everyone else's fault and not DCB's or hers.

Usually large chain centers will work a lot harder or ignore behaviors a lot longer than an in home provider or small center so I HIGHLY doubt that mom has not been aware of how bad DCB's behavior really is until now.

[DaveA]

I am FLOORED that a behavioral specialist would actually utter those words when you are a GROUP care provider.

Me too. Has that person ever worked in a program or is it "I went to school so I'm an expert?"

Sorry but no way would the child come back to my program. The parents are asking to operate in an unsafe manner IMHO. In my policies that is grounds for immediate termination. I hope the child gets all the help he needs, but I wouldn't have anything to do with them anymore.

[Blackcat31]

I don't have to listen to him but that's what he's there for. They suggest we call in and report/discuss situations when we have problem children so I did. They have helped in the past, once they even came in to monitor and things got better so I guess I was hoping for the same here. I just felt bad when he said something like " if everyone keeps giving up on this child at the 1st sight of a problem he will never get any better" My son has the same diagnosis and has come a long way but his was never this extreme my son never spit and rarely hit he was just defiant and bouncing off walls. I know I was grateful for the people that stood by him so I thought maybe I could help this one. We will see. I have thought about the 3 strikes deal and I think meeting the specialist half way and taking the kids back for 1 more try is better. So next time he does this he is out. I am working on a term letter now to be prepared.

As for his behavior the other 2 days... He ate his meals and put the dishes where I asked when done. He was fine at craft time, he worked nicely on his craft sharing materials. Circle time he loved because he likes music and even tried the dance moves with us. He was very interested in teh stories I read and sat nicely paying attention. The only time I had a problem was during the free play time when he shoved a child who kept following him too closing with the big cars. He pushed him another time when I had my back turned not sure why but that's pretty much it. The 3rd day he just had a melt down. He is not on any meds they don't want him on meds.

That was NOT fair!!!

Plus the PARENTS need to be the ones not giving up.....if they can't take the lead and be the forerunners in seeking help for this child, why is it YOUR responsibility?

I'm so sick of professionals that have never actually been hands on in a group care environment say words and phrases like that. I'm sick of them laying the guilt on us while they make the $ using words and you get nothing but spit on and breast with bruises from a preschooler!

How is that even okay?!?!

If the behavioral specialist doesn't want to give up in this kid then he/she can provide services for him.

Personally, I would report a behavioral specialist that actually suggested subjecting the other kids to violence and aggression like that.

If you truly want to help...you can definitely keep him and not give up in him but I guarantee you the other parents wont give one second of their time feeling bad or admirable towards you for putting their child(ren) at risk.

[PitterPatter]

No way!!!!!

I'm sorry but a behavioral specialist that actually suggests you subject the other kids in your care to violence and aggression of that level AND that YOU should give the child another chance to physically assault you?!?!?

No flippin' way would I take that advice.

If I were a parent of the other kids in care, I'd pull my child in two seconds flat and not pay one single dime for a 2 week notice because the environment with that child there is NOT safe.

If a simple consequence like calling his mom (whom he CLEARLY has zero respect for or fear of) sets him off like that, I'd hate to see what happens when the wind blows south instead of north. :confused:

I am FLOORED that a behavioral specialist would actually utter those words when you are a GROUP care provider.

I'm sorry Pitter, I mean ZERO disrespect to you and my heart breaks that you had to even deal with any of that......

This is bigger than you can manage.

Even if you had immediate back up IN your home, it only takes one second for him to seriously hurt another child.

NOT something I could ever do.

(((hugs))) and prayers to you in whatever you decide to do.

:hug:

I do worry about the other kids in care and I know you mean no disrespect I have always appreciated your advise. Thank you for giving it again. I just feel stuck in the middle like I will be making this kid worse by being just another person that dumps him at the 1st sign of distress. I was going to term but some of the things the specialist said made sense. I told him my concern for teh other children and thats when he suggested another person helping and I made the plan for the back up to come as soon as she gets my call. I just want to help EVERY child but I don't want any innocent ones hurt in the process. Sometimes this job is just too hard mentally. Thank you again!

[Blackcat31]

I do worry about the other kids in care and I know you mean no disrespect I have always appreciated your advise. Thank you for giving it again. I just feel stuck in the middle like I will be making this kid worse by being just another person that dumps him at the 1st sign of distress. I was going to term but some of the things the specialist said made sense. I told him my concern for teh other children and thats when he suggested another person helping and I made the plan for the back up to come as soon as she gets my call. I just want to help EVERY child but I don't want any innocent ones hurt in the process. Sometimes this job is just too hard mentally. Thank you again!

:hug: my fingers are shaking as I type....

I am so angry FOR you!!!!

I know you care and I know you don't want to fail but sometimes it in EVERYONE's best interest to not be that childs savior.

You can't help one child while allowing the possibility of ALL the others being harmed.

Saving one is NOT worth losing 5. (or however many you have)

...as well as any fall out from those 5 pissed off families....

[nannyde]

I do worry about the other kids in care and I know you mean no disrespect I have always appreciated your advise. Thank you for giving it again. I just feel stuck in the middle like I will be making this kid worse by being just another person that dumps him at the 1st sign of distress. I was going to term but some of the things the specialist said made sense. I told him my concern for teh other children and thats when he suggested another person helping and I made the plan for the back up to come as soon as she gets my call. I just want to help EVERY child but I don't want any innocent ones hurt in the process. Sometimes this job is just too hard mentally. Thank you again!

Pitter you have known the kid for a couple of days. He won't recognize you in a month. His care has nothing to do with your business unless you want it to.

[Leigh]

I do worry about the other kids in care and I know you mean no disrespect I have always appreciated your advise. Thank you for giving it again. I just feel stuck in the middle like I will be making this kid worse by being just another person that dumps him at the 1st sign of distress. I was going to term but some of the things the specialist said made sense. I told him my concern for teh other children and thats when he suggested another person helping and I made the plan for the back up to come as soon as she gets my call. I just want to help EVERY child but I don't want any innocent ones hurt in the process. Sometimes this job is just too hard mentally. Thank you again!

The specialist you spoke to just guilted you into making a decision that could not only cause extensive damages to your home and reputation, but also WILL affect the other children-their stress levels will go through the roof from witnessing this child's uncontrollable behavior. It's not fair to them-take it from someone who has been there.

This is NOT your problem to deal with, and to make you feel like you are "giving up" on this child was W.R.O.N.G. You are not a psychiatrist, and that is what this child needs. You won't be helping him by keeping him because you CAN'T help him. Only his parents and a good therapy/psychiatric team can. You are being used to hold him until you can't take it anymore, at which time the parents will move on the the next kind-hearted, unsuspecting childcare provider.

This is way more than most of us can handle. You can hold this child in your care for a while, but you can't help him.

I apologize that my writing style comes across sometimes as blunt, confrontational, or even cruel-that is not my intention. I'm just worried about you and the kids in your care. This child is NOT SAFE. I have been there, and it's no place to be. I, too, was guilted into caring for TWO kids like this. It affected my whole household, inside and outside of daycare hours. The other kids were completely stressed out and one was completely fearful. I was a wreck. I tried and tried, and had a therapist in my home for 4 hours a week. The therapist took months to convince me that the kids can not be helped in my home. There's not enough love in the world for you to help this kid-you're just delaying the inevitable.

ETA: I am guessing that this "specialist" that you spoke to is not a therapist or psychiatric professional. I believe that if you spoke to someone with experience dealing with kids like this, you'd get the same answers that we have given you. These answers are given from experience. The specialist probably gave you advice that would work with "normal" children. You're not dealing with a "normal" child, but one with serious psychiatric issues. The usual techniques just don't work with those kids.

[NeedaVaca]

I do worry about the other kids in care and I know you mean no disrespect I have always appreciated your advise. Thank you for giving it again. I just feel stuck in the middle like I will be making this kid worse by being just another person that dumps him at the 1st sign of distress. I was going to term but some of the things the specialist said made sense. I told him my concern for teh other children and thats when he suggested another person helping and I made the plan for the back up to come as soon as she gets my call. I just want to help EVERY child but I don't want any innocent ones hurt in the process. Sometimes this job is just too hard mentally. Thank you again!

It's too late...he smacked a 2 year old, spit on a child and they all witnessed his violence and swearing. I'm seriously shocked you would even consider letting him come back. He needs one on one care. I would pull my child in a heartbeat if I knew you were letting him come back. You risk losing everything...Please reconsider for the sake of the other children in your care. I understand you have a need to help this child but that is his parents job, they need to get him the help that he needs. Your job is to keep the kids in your care safe and that won't happen if you keep this child.

[Josiegirl]

The guilt card...gotta love that. That should've never been said to you.
My heart goes out to you. This child needs to have a team working with him. He needs specially trained people and the one-on-one care that someone mentioned. Maybe what you have in your home fills his needs, maybe you are the answer to his problems, maybe just maybe it would work out. None of us know the outcome. My nerves would be too frazzled after what you've described and I'd be too stressed out fearing liability issues dealing with outbursts like that.
I don't know you but I am so so sorry you've got this over your head, this worry and guilt and wanting to do the right thing. I think most providers want to do the right thing, fix all kids whose lives aren't perfect, help everyone. But we have to realize our shortcomings and that we're only human. We can only do so much with what we have and have to keep in mind what's best for every person, including yourself. All the stress will flow over into your personal life and your family time.
I hope and pray, for you, that he can behave and learn and grow in your care but if he can't, PLEASE do NOT take the guilt trip for it.

As Nannyde mentioned, the child was able to go home, which in his eyes was not a bad thing. UNLESS discipline carried over with the dcp. I've almost called parents a couple times about taking their ds home but didn't because to the child, it's a win-win situation.

PitPat, I hope we aren't coming off as a bunch of snarly grumpy tellin'-ya-what-to-do providers but I think most of us are worried for you. We all know how challenging a good day of providing care can be; I couldn't imagine taking on the extra challenge of this child. HUGE HUGS to you!!!

[MOM OF 4]

I have a friend who has a 3 yo son diagnosed with autism and a bunch of other medical issues (can't remember them all but some are behavioral and others are life-threatening). She is a trained child therapist. So, at home he is indeed perfect. She has the environment to suit his physical and emotional needs and she knows the signs of an impending meltdown for him and can curb it before it happens to help prevent it from escalating.

He came here for a brief visit. Ds was playing with him while my friend and I talked. Neither ds nor I knew about the full extent of the child's situation until ds accidentally bumped the child's car out of the perfectly arranged line. The little boy who was playing very nicely with ds suddenly flipped out. He started screaming "I hate you," and then attempted to physically attack ds in a matter of seconds. My friend grabbed her child and held him there until she could calm him down. She apologized for not warning me and watching him closely and explained that if he is overstimulated and his organizational system is broken, he'll become violent. It is the reason why she rarely visits anyone. Ds never touched his line again and all was well after that but could you imagine his behavior at daycare if the provider didn't have this important information and the extra set of hands/eyes to handle his multiple behavioral concerns? My friend sends her son to preschool, but they have an extra person there to help him through his day as needed. He really is an intelligent and happy child but he would be very frustrated with a group daycare setting as we all know how mixed age groups can frustrate even the most patient preschooler...

Boy do I remember that kind of thing! LOL

I remember a mom whose child did actually have autism. She never told me. We went to Safeway to let all the kids pick out ice cream bars (and mom even gave consent!) . BIGGEST MISTAKE OF HER LIFE because she was immediately termed. I had NO IDEA he could not be out in public. She used me as an experiment to see if he'd behave with someone else outside of the home, and I didn't like being lied to. She tried to deny something was wrong, but the behavior at Safeway was CLEAR autism. I recognized it right away because my friend's son has it pretty severe, and it was almost IDENTICAL to the way my friend's son acts when something becomes too difficult for him.

I was so mad. I could have helped had she not lied.

[nannyde]

Pitter, are you trying to keep him because you need the money? I don't mean if the money would be nice but if you NEED the money?

[PitterPatter]

Pitter, are you trying to keep him because you need the money? I don't mean if the money would be nice but if you NEED the money?

I do need the money yes but, it doesn't have a bearing on the decision. I learned that lesson years ago with the help of you all when I had the sibling tots with all the diseases. No money is worth another childs safety. Him slapping the toddler is really bothering me the most. The spitting in my face also. I was just a frantic mess when I 1st posted and yes I am calmed down now but haven't forgotten. I was struggling with why he was so good for me for 2 whole days and just snapped, was it maybe a fluke? Could he be good again? Then the centers specialist had some good points, and the guilt didn't help. I don't think he guilted me on purpose he doesn't know them but he should choose his words better. After thinking about this over the past few days and reading everyones posts I have decided to term. These kids are like my own and it would break my heart if something did happen to them. I feel bad for the good little boy that I had for those 2 days but the bad seed that sprouted on Thursday just can not be trusted nor controlled. You all are right. I will direct her to the resource center maybe they have more ideas to assist her. I do have guilt over dropping him so quick but if one of my DCKs or my son or my dog got hurt the guilt would be much worse. So lesser of the evils I guess. Thank you again Nan and everyone! :hug:

[nannyde]

I do need the money yes but, it doesn't have a bearing on the decision. I learned that lesson years ago with the help of you all when I had the sibling tots with all the diseases. No money is worth another childs safety. Him slapping the toddler is really bothering me the most. The spitting in my face also. I was just a frantic mess when I 1st posted and yes I am calmed down now but haven't forgotten. I was struggling with why he was so good for me for 2 whole days and just snapped, was it maybe a fluke? Could he be good again? Then the centers specialist had some good points, and the guilt didn't help. I don't think he guilted me on purpose he doesn't know them but he should choose his words better. After thinking about this over the past few days and reading everyones posts I have decided to term. These kids are like my own and it would break my heart if something did happen to them. I feel bad for the good little boy that I had for those 2 days but the bad seed that sprouted on Thursday just can not be trusted nor controlled. You all are right. I will direct her to the resource center maybe they have more ideas to assist her. I do have guilt over dropping him so quick but if one of my DCKs or my son or my dog got hurt the guilt would be much worse. So lesser of the evils I guess. Thank you again Nan and everyone! :hug:

Oh Pitter I can explain why the first two days were good.

This is very common with mentally unstable kids and aggressive kids. Not so much under three years olds but older.

The first two.days everything is new. The toys are new, the excitement is new, the attention and promises from the mom that if he is good he gets special is new.

By day three the newness is gone. He has exhausted every avenue within your setting to scout what pleasures him.

By day three you start getting back to normal. You stop investing time into talking to him and introducing him to your world. Your voice changes to how you talk to the others. Your expectations now become that he is to remember the rules and abide by them.

He LOVES the newness. He LOVES how you talk to him to get him to like the place. He LOVES the promises mon made. He LOVES the new to him toys.

By day three he has had all the high end fun and attention he's going to get and he says NO to going into being one of the group. He goes ballistic so he forces you to give him the level of attention he got the first two days. He goes postal and he KNOWS mom.will have to cpme.get him.

He's been to this rodeo again and again. You are just another brick in the wall to him.

Bottom line... like the saying goes... visiting relatives are like fish... they go bad by the third day.

Aggressive little feral children are like fish... they go bad by the third day. The ONLY way he won't is if you set up his world like mon does where he gets everything he wants second to second so it is always new and special.

[Unregistered]

It's not a fluke since he's been kicked out of every daycare he's been in. This kid has serious problems. NOTHING is going to be done by his mom until she probably gets sued because he hurts someone. It's NOT fair to the other children to be near that hot mess. When I worked in a head start, there was a child like this. Thankfully, you can get rid of him.

[Hunni Bee]

Believe me, as Ive posted here, I've had this kid and worse. You are NOT helping him by keeping him. Your environment is not what he needs. Not that there's anything wrong with it, it's that he needs help and your accepting him just enables mom to buy more time where his behavior is considered "normal" and she doesn't have to do anything about it.

All you're actually doing is putting the other children and yourself at risk. Because no way that was a one time thing. It was the season opener.