Something Flipped The Bitc# Switch!! HELP!

[PitterPatter]

i will never understand why a parent has a child that is perfectly normal at home... Who never shows an ounce of aggression... And when in public is a violent animal... Why in the world would you allow him to be somewhere where you know he is going to be violent?

There's nothing wrong with him at home under parental care... Then keep him with you. It's abusive to put him in a situation where he is violent when he is an angel with you. He deserves to be where he is happy and well behaved... If that means living under a bridge thenso be it.

amen!!

[PitterPatter]

Oh he!! no way that child would ever be stepping foot in my house again. Not just the spitting but nobody calls me bi!@h in my own home. I've had 2 that did that(it wasn't the only thing they did but that was the proverbial straw)and they both got notice.
I hope you've calmed down a little since they left and can let it go. As I read all you wrote I could picture it in my head; all I could think was OMG that poor woman!!
Wish I could share my chocolate with you or something.
Tomorrow's Friday.

:hug::hug::hug:

I'm ok now. I was just in so much shock I wanted to cry. I have been hit before and cussed at before but they were either in an angry fit or a crying state and I was able to talk to them and it was short lived. This kid was just matter of fact calm like we were dicussing craft time or something. It came out of no where and just non stop. Now I'm just in disbelief over the Mother more than the child. Thanks for offering your chocolate that means a lot!

[Unregistered]

Potter patter did you term this child??? It sounds like this child needs a nanny to stay at home with him or mom should stay at home. Group care is not appropriate for this child. The sooner Mom realizes this the better. He will not last more than a day or two in any other facility.

The best you can do is term. You now know the extent of this child's issues and to keep him would be irresponsible. If you keep him and he hurts another child you may be held liable.

This isn't easy. ((Hugs))

[finsup]

I've worked with kids like this...the GOOD thing is, they can be reached. It just takes time, patience and the right team of people to do it. However, when I was working with them it was in a school setting. Lots of resources, lots of people to tag team, no babies/toddlers to try and juggle while doing it. There are pre-school/daycares etc that are capable of helping kids like this. I wonder if you know of any or could find them to suggest to mom? I have a soft spot for these types of kids honestly But trying to work with them, in my home, with no additional staff...no, I just can't do it.

[TheGoodLife]

Yes, please tell us you termed effective immediately? Not for principle, but for safety and well-being! That boy needs help for his problems, and care that a home daycare is not capable of providing! :hug: to you again!

[PitterPatter]

I spoke with a behavior specialist in our resource center and he said it could just be him testing me and seeing how far he can push since it's a new environment. He said DCB probably tried to call my bluff when I threatened to call his Mom and send him home. And now that I have done so and the boy sees that I mean business he will learn from it.

He suggested I give the child another chance since this was his first problem and was so well behaved the other 2 1/2 days. I guess I should follow his guidelines since I asked. I thought he too would say term and it would all be noted right there in office records as well.

If DCB does start again I have a plan in place to call in a back up from down the street and be with the other kids while I deal with DCB in the front hall and wait for DCM to pick up. That way he has no contact with anyone and the others wont see his behavior. Luckily I have no infants, the youngest is 2. The specialist and I agreed on the 3 strikes you are out rule and void the 2 week notice. If he acts up next week DCM will then be given her final notice that 1 more strike you are out. If he acts up that quickly I'm sure the 3rd won't be too far behind.

I gave DCM a list of other centers and head start programs where he might be able to get specialized care. 1 right in the school he would be attending grade school but she said his Dr. advised her to place him in a small home child care group where he can have more one on one time. I would love to be able to talk to his Dr.

Thank you to everyone who helped me through my initial shock. I'm geared up and ready to win this war if he decides to battle again.

Sending a hope and prayer to God to get us through and if not then to at least bless the child and his next care provider(s).

Thanks again ladies!! :hug:

[PitterPatter]

Oh 1 more thing how do I term immediately? I have always given a 2 week notice in writing and vague on the reason but made sure DCM knew why. For something like this I think I would want it all written in black and white so what do I say how do I write and immediate term notice without all the details? I will need to know and have it ready because I really don't trust this boy now and betting it will be next week.

Thanks again!

[KidGrind]

You’re in my prayers!

There is no way I would even risk putting myself, home and other children back into that scene.

Yes, I know you have a back up. Down the street, you still have to call, have a conversation and her get there to take over the other children in your care. I get pushing boundaries and testing. I think this is something else and it won’t stop. There would be NO 3 STRIKES, the next time is his last time.

[Josiegirl]

I cannot offer help with the immediate termination letter but I have to ask, why do you have to listen to your resource person?? I think it all depends on what is good for your childcare on the whole, AND for you! At the most, I'd give him 1 more chance and I'm not even sure about that. I've had challenging children but never as bad as the one you have.
I'm still shaking my head and going whoa at all the stuff he put you through.
Is there some behavioral resource that can come into your daycare and help him interact with the others? He needs one on one, IMO, to heck with any type of group care.

Hmm, thought I just edited my post but didn't find it. Ok anyways, does this child display behavior like this often? I know you've only had him 2 1/2 days but is it common for him? Is he on meds that could make him go off like that? Any allergies?

[nannyde]

I spoke with a behavior specialist in our resource center and he said it could just be him testing me and seeing how far he can push since it's a new environment. He said DCB probably tried to call my bluff when I threatened to call his Mom and send him home. And now that I have done so and the boy sees that I mean business he will learn from it.

He suggested I give the child another chance since this was his first problem and was so well behaved the other 2 1/2 days. I guess I should follow his guidelines since I asked. I thought he too would say term and it would all be noted right there in office records as well.

If DCB does start again I have a plan in place to call in a back up from down the street and be with the other kids while I deal with DCB in the front hall and wait for DCM to pick up. That way he has no contact with anyone and the others wont see his behavior. Luckily I have no infants, the youngest is 2. The specialist and I agreed on the 3 strikes you are out rule and void the 2 week notice. If he acts up next week DCM will then be given her final notice that 1 more strike you are out. If he acts up that quickly I'm sure the 3rd won't be too far behind.

I gave DCM a list of other centers and head start programs where he might be able to get specialized care. 1 right in the school he would be attending grade school but she said his Dr. advised her to place him in a small home child care group where he can have more one on one time. I would love to be able to talk to his Dr.

Thank you to everyone who helped me through my initial shock. I'm geared up and ready to win this war if he decides to battle again.

Sending a hope and prayer to God to get us through and if not then to at least bless the child and his next care provider(s).

Thanks again ladies!! :hug:

That kid isn't worried one bit about you calling mom. When mom got there he was treated like a prince and got to go home to the world where he is a completely opposite angelic child.

The mom wants him in a home day care because she has found that the total time the provider will keep him is longer than when he is in a center. She wants to ride this as long as possible before she has to get someone else. The doctor doesn't do home child care or have to physically restrain him. He doesn't get spat on and called filthy names. Either does the worker.

If you need the money then do what you need to do. You are at serious risk for being alone with him. He could harm you, your kids, your property. If you have to intercede physically to restrain him you are putting your freedom and ability to raise your son at risk.

I wouldn't take a.thousand a week to have him in my care. He needs inpatient therapy where the adults are plentiful and have the training to take him down and force him into a safe locked area. They need to be able to put a face mask on him for spitting.

You haven't seen the tip of his violence. He gave you horrify by spitting. Next is throwing things over the stairs (super fun and exciting) and destroying your walls and windows. He's also going to attack you cuz he know no pain will come his way when he does.

When mom comes she will say "how did it make you feel when you couldn't throw the heater over the stairs?" And then take him home after she runs thru a drive thru to pick up something special for the boy that had a rough day.

[Kabob]

That kid isn't worried one bit about you calling mom. When mom got there he was treated like a prince and got to go home to the world where he is a completely opposite angelic child.

The mom wants him in a home day care because she has found that the total time the provider will keep him is longer than when he is in a center. She wants to ride this as long as possible before she has to get someone else. The doctor doesn't do home child care or have to physically restrain him. He doesn't get spat on and called filthy names. Either does the worker.

If you need the money then do what you need to do. You are at serious risk for being alone with him. He could harm you, your kids, your property. If you have to intercede physically to restrain him you are putting your freedom and ability to raise your son at risk.

I wouldn't take a.thousand a week to have him in my care. He needs inpatient therapy where the adults are plentiful and have the training to take him down and force him into a safe locked area. They need to be able to put a face mask on him for spitting.

You haven't seen the tip of his violence. He gave you horrify by spitting. Next is throwing things over the stairs (super fun and exciting) and destroying your walls and windows. He's also going to attack you cuz he know no pain will come his way when he does.

When mom comes she will say "how did it make you feel when you couldn't throw the heater over the stairs?" And then take him home after she runs thru a drive thru to pick up something special for the boy that had a rough day.

I just wanted to add that if you choose to term immediately, it is not your fault and you did not fail.

This is a dangerous and difficult situation. Maybe dcm will finally realize that she needs to get dcb the help he needs if you term.

I have a clause in my contract saying I can term at will. I have used it before by simply handing the parent a written letter saying services were terminated effective immediately (I stated current date) and listed numbers they can call to find alternative care. I would verbally tell them it wasn't a good fit, hand them (or mail them) their stuff and move on.

If you don't have that clause, you could still cancel immediately and cite the safety of the all the children involved and then take the hit financially if needed (refund unused days or whatever). Add that clause in your contract in the future.

He could without warning hurt one of the kids...then you'd have to explain that situation to the parents of that child. Keep in mind the person you talked to most likely has never done family child care nor have they ever dealt with that particular child and witnessed his behavior in your daycare.

I personally had a wild child like that in my care...he started out like an angel but after a day he was terrible. He once whipped a dirt clod point blank into my 2yo son's face and laughed. He pinched others to make them cry for fun. He dropped to the ground and screamed and kicked and smashed items if I told him no. He was almost 6.

When I would tell dcm about his behavior, she would tell him he was silly and then he would ask to go to McDonald's and she'd take him! I gathered that he was just as terrible at home but she would just give him whatever he wanted to keep him quiet. She even witnessed him try to push/kick his brother down the stairs and didn't try to stop him. I had to intervene and she got mad at me for reprimanding him and making him wait his turn to go down the stairs. She told me he was just being silly (he wasn't). He just would laugh whenever he hurt someone and would intentionally break the same rule multiple times a day every day.

I was going to term (I had the letter in hand) but the parents beat me to it because they were mad that I had enforced my policies so they termed and then never showed up for the remaining 2 weeks.

Looking back, I should have termed way sooner...that child had no self control and was randomly violent. It just didn't get better no matter how much I enforced the boundaries. He just kept testing me anyway.

Good luck and I hope whatever decision you make goes well for you!

[MOM OF 4]

OK so, my take on ADHD/ADD; ODD....IT'S A DIAGNOSIS WAY OVERUSED!!!

First,
Did you get ANY documentation that this kid actually has it? Some kids are just plain old bad. Their parents and friends give them an excuse that they must have something wrong with them. They don't want to rock the boat so "assume" it's ADHD/ADD; ODD or something else, instead of correcting the real problem: Behaviors not controlled by firm discipline, love, redirection and a home where parents care about their children.

The problem is that parents and others want dcproviders to handle all their messes. OF COURSE Johnny is getting great feedback from home, where he can do no wrong because mom is giving in to him, rather than correcting him. If he truly has this condition, she needs to be even MORE firm and consistent with him. Which she should be doing even if he doesn't. It is UNACCEPTABLE for a child to abuse you this way and for his parents to allow and /or dismiss it.

I would let the kid go if behavior gets worse. SOMETIMES you can get a child to turn around. I have done this. But the child in question NEEDED a firm hand, and I'm that firm hand. His MOTHER was VERY cooperative and honest with me, and that really helped in him getting to be where he needed to be. He still had moments, far and few in between, but overall, with all of us working together, he was one of my best students. The thing is, this mom sounds like she's making up a lot of excuses, minimizing his behavior, and dismissing your concerns by saying "he's awesome at home" when truthfully, he's probably equally a terror, hence her giving in so much

Don't let her make you his next victim of abuse.

[Kabob]

OK so, my take on ADHD/ADD; ODD....IT'S A DIAGNOSIS WAY OVERUSED!!!

First,
Did you get ANY documentation that this kid actually has it? Some kids are just plain old bad. Their parents and friends give them an excuse that they must have something wrong with them. They don't want to rock the boat so "assume" it's ADHD/ADD; ODD or something else, instead of correcting the real problem: Behaviors not controlled by firm discipline, love, redirection and a home where parents care about their children.

The problem is that parents and others want dcproviders to handle all their messes. OF COURSE Johnny is getting great feedback from home, where he can do no wrong because mom is giving in to him, rather than correcting him. If he truly has this condition, she needs to be even MORE firm and consistent with him. Which she should be doing even if he doesn't. It is UNACCEPTABLE for a child to abuse you this way and for his parents to allow and /or dismiss it.

I would let the kid go if behavior gets worse. SOMETIMES you can get a child to turn around. I have done this. But the child in question NEEDED a firm hand, and I'm that firm hand. His MOTHER was VERY cooperative and honest with me, and that really helped in him getting to be where he needed to be. He still had moments, far and few in between, but overall, with all of us working together, he was one of my best students. The thing is, this mom sounds like she's making up a lot of excuses, minimizing his behavior, and dismissing your concerns by saying "he's awesome at home" when truthfully, he's probably equally a terror, hence her giving in so much

Don't let her make you his next victim of abuse.

I have a friend who has a 3 yo son diagnosed with autism and a bunch of other medical issues (can't remember them all but some are behavioral and others are life-threatening). She is a trained child therapist. So, at home he is indeed perfect. She has the environment to suit his physical and emotional needs and she knows the signs of an impending meltdown for him and can curb it before it happens to help prevent it from escalating.

He came here for a brief visit. Ds was playing with him while my friend and I talked. Neither ds nor I knew about the full extent of the child's situation until ds accidentally bumped the child's car out of the perfectly arranged line. The little boy who was playing very nicely with ds suddenly flipped out. He started screaming "I hate you," and then attempted to physically attack ds in a matter of seconds. My friend grabbed her child and held him there until she could calm him down. She apologized for not warning me and watching him closely and explained that if he is overstimulated and his organizational system is broken, he'll become violent. It is the reason why she rarely visits anyone. Ds never touched his line again and all was well after that but could you imagine his behavior at daycare if the provider didn't have this important information and the extra set of hands/eyes to handle his multiple behavioral concerns? My friend sends her son to preschool, but they have an extra person there to help him through his day as needed. He really is an intelligent and happy child but he would be very frustrated with a group daycare setting as we all know how mixed age groups can frustrate even the most patient preschooler...

[Blackcat31]

I spoke with a behavior specialist in our resource center and he said it could just be him testing me and seeing how far he can push since it's a new environment. He said DCB probably tried to call my bluff when I threatened to call his Mom and send him home. And now that I have done so and the boy sees that I mean business he will learn from it.

He suggested I give the child another chance since this was his first problem and was so well behaved the other 2 1/2 days. I guess I should follow his guidelines since I asked. I thought he too would say term and it would all be noted right there in office records as well.

If DCB does start again I have a plan in place to call in a back up from down the street and be with the other kids while I deal with DCB in the front hall and wait for DCM to pick up. That way he has no contact with anyone and the others wont see his behavior. Luckily I have no infants, the youngest is 2. The specialist and I agreed on the 3 strikes you are out rule and void the 2 week notice. If he acts up next week DCM will then be given her final notice that 1 more strike you are out. If he acts up that quickly I'm sure the 3rd won't be too far behind.

I gave DCM a list of other centers and head start programs where he might be able to get specialized care. 1 right in the school he would be attending grade school but she said his Dr. advised her to place him in a small home child care group where he can have more one on one time. I would love to be able to talk to his Dr.

Thank you to everyone who helped me through my initial shock. I'm geared up and ready to win this war if he decides to battle again.

Sending a hope and prayer to God to get us through and if not then to at least bless the child and his next care provider(s).

Thanks again ladies!! :hug:

No way!!!!!

I'm sorry but a behavioral specialist that actually suggests you subject the other kids in your care to violence and aggression of that level AND that YOU should give the child another chance to physically assault you?!?!?

No flippin' way would I take that advice.

If I were a parent of the other kids in care, I'd pull my child in two seconds flat and not pay one single dime for a 2 week notice because the environment with that child there is NOT safe.

If a simple consequence like calling his mom (whom he CLEARLY has zero respect for or fear of) sets him off like that, I'd hate to see what happens when the wind blows south instead of north. :confused:

I am FLOORED that a behavioral specialist would actually utter those words when you are a GROUP care provider.

I'm sorry Pitter, I mean ZERO disrespect to you and my heart breaks that you had to even deal with any of that......

This is bigger than you can manage.

Even if you had immediate back up IN your home, it only takes one second for him to seriously hurt another child.

NOT something I could ever do.

(((hugs))) and prayers to you in whatever you decide to do.

:hug:

[PitterPatter]

I cannot offer help with the immediate termination letter but I have to ask, why do you have to listen to your resource person?? I think it all depends on what is good for your childcare on the whole, AND for you! At the most, I'd give him 1 more chance and I'm not even sure about that. I've had challenging children but never as bad as the one you have.
I'm still shaking my head and going whoa at all the stuff he put you through.
Is there some behavioral resource that can come into your daycare and help him interact with the others? He needs one on one, IMO, to heck with any type of group care.

Hmm, thought I just edited my post but didn't find it. Ok anyways, does this child display behavior like this often? I know you've only had him 2 1/2 days but is it common for him? Is he on meds that could make him go off like that? Any allergies?

I don't have to listen to him but that's what he's there for. They suggest we call in and report/discuss situations when we have problem children so I did. They have helped in the past, once they even came in to monitor and things got better so I guess I was hoping for the same here. I just felt bad when he said something like " if everyone keeps giving up on this child at the 1st sight of a problem he will never get any better" My son has the same diagnosis and has come a long way but his was never this extreme my son never spit and rarely hit he was just defiant and bouncing off walls. I know I was grateful for the people that stood by him so I thought maybe I could help this one. We will see. I have thought about the 3 strikes deal and I think meeting the specialist half way and taking the kids back for 1 more try is better. So next time he does this he is out. I am working on a term letter now to be prepared.

As for his behavior the other 2 days... He ate his meals and put the dishes where I asked when done. He was fine at craft time, he worked nicely on his craft sharing materials. Circle time he loved because he likes music and even tried the dance moves with us. He was very interested in teh stories I read and sat nicely paying attention. The only time I had a problem was during the free play time when he shoved a child who kept following him too closing with the big cars. He pushed him another time when I had my back turned not sure why but that's pretty much it. The 3rd day he just had a melt down. He is not on any meds they don't want him on meds.