Would You Take A Gender Non-Conforming Child?

[Brooksie]

I wonder if the "high and mighty" comments are directed at me???

If so, in my defense - I think a lot of posters here don't like me or think I'm a bitch because I don't put up with BS from anyone and I often call people out on what they say. There is nothing "high and mighty" about that. I don't think I'm better than anyone here, but I do think if people are going to post on a public forum they need to be prepared for various responses, many of which aren't going to fit in a pretty little box with a bow on top. I feel many of the ladies here just want "back up" in their decisions and when they find that someone disagrees they get defensive and say they always get the WRONG responses. If you don't want opinions - don't ask for 'em!

I actually love when you post. ::

[daycarediva]

I don't think the OP is some inhuman monster because she has concerns about how ONE client could affect her business. She IS in this for money. To NOT be concerned with how it would affect her own family/financial stability would be wrong, imho.

I would lose clients if I took a transgender child, I'm sure of it. Financially, I NEED 1/2 my crew to pay bills/eat. The same, 'what if it puts me out of business'? thought would cross my mind as well.

On the issue of discrimination:

I have had a VERY diverse group before (with NO Caucasian children enrolled) Indian, Chinese, adopted from Kenya, Mexican, and was discriminated against on interview by a Caucasian family when they saw the photos on the bulletin board. It wasn't a client I would WANT, anyway. (insert sticking tongue out smiley here)

When I first opened, I had ALL BLONDES. Kid you not, toe-head to dirty blondes. All fair haired, blue eyed and had a very professional AA set of parents interview, and ENROLL with me on the spot. Despite my 'waspy' group (her words). Best family ever.

Had a family leave when they realized that I had not only ONE gay couple, but *gasp* TWO! (one bio child conceived by Mom #1 with the sperm of Mom #2's brother and one gay couple who adopted) Again, not a family that was a good fit for my program.

Discrimination happens ALL THE TIME. It is a part of life, and we learn to deal with it and live with it to the best of our ability. That being said, I would enroll the child because I KNOW not all of my families would leave and I would not be devastated financially. If I didn't have the families I do, I would have to think twice, because this is a BUSINESS and I can't lose it, for the sake of my own family. (who are my first priority).

[crazydaycarelady]

but you don't seem concerned about the parents or child - just your business. Which, ironically, is a form of discrimination.]

Yes, I am concerned about my business and I don't appreciate you acting like THAT is wrong also. My business supports my family and my family is my first priority.

[Blackcat31]

I wonder if the "high and mighty" comments are directed at me???

If so, in my defense - I think a lot of posters here don't like me or think I'm a bitch because I don't put up with BS from anyone and I often call people out on what they say. There is nothing "high and mighty" about that. I don't think I'm better than anyone here, but I do think if people are going to post on a public forum they need to be prepared for various responses, many of which aren't going to fit in a pretty little box with a bow on top. I feel many of the ladies here just want "back up" in their decisions and when they find that someone disagrees they get defensive and say they always get the WRONG responses. If you don't want opinions - don't ask for 'em!

I agree with a lot of your points.

I also think calling others "high and mighty" is rude and uncalled for.

IMHO, if you (general you) honestly feel as though someone is posting in a condescending tone or is not helping or offering advice, then direct a comment TO them.

Painting everyone with the same brush just causes issues and misunderstandings.

If what I personally said offends you, tell ME...but don't lump others in with MY comments.

I KNOW I come off as condescending and rude at times but NEVER intentionally and NEVER without being open enough to step back and apologize if my words hurt someone or were taken out of context.

I can only control what I type/say NOT how others interpret those words.

I CAN clarify my words/intent and I can elaborate if asked and I absolutely learn from the experience and try to be more aware in the future but not if I am not given that opportunity.

I teach my daycare children conflict resolution. One of the biggest points to being able to master that skill is being open minded to feedback in regards to our own words and actions as well as being respectful, whether we agree or don't agree with the topic.

[tratliff]

Wow, coming from a semi-rural area of the South, I do totally understand what you mean when you say you could lose business. I understand why you would be concerned. Other parents might not be cool with it. As someone working on providing in-home care and as a rather progressive person myself, I deal with people with extremely opposing views constantly and have a very difficult time finding like-minded parents in my very "traditional" area.

Coming from the perspective that my child will be in care with the other children I am caring for, if other parents were closed-minded enough that they would remove their children from my care for enrolling a non gender conforming child, I would fear that parents who would remove their children would have closed-minded beliefs imposed on their children, and I would rather lose them as clients than have my own child exposed to that at such a young age. No I don't plan to shelter him, but there is enough hatred in the world without having to explain actions like that to a 3 year old.

Also, Gender is a SOCIAL CONSTRUCT. I saw something funny a while back. It was a diagram of how to tell if a toy was for boys or girls. The first circle said "Do you operate the toy with your genitals?" Answer "yes" leads to the bubble "It's not meant for children" while answer "no" leads to "It's for boys and girls to play with"..... Just saying that liking a certain color, wearing certain clothes, and playing with certain toys doesn't mean anything. It's our adult brains that think it does.

I'm not trying to downplay transgender people, I'm saying that as adults, most of us have the idea that we should do what makes us happy. And if my own son wants to wear dresses, I dare any adult to try to stop him.

[littlemissmuffet]

Yes, I am concerned about my business and I don't appreciate you acting like THAT is wrong also. My business supports my family and my family is my first priority.

I support you 100% in being concerned with your business. That should (family aside, of course) always be top priority! I do not at all fault you for that. What I do not and cannot support is you back peddling and suddenly saying you are concerned for the little boy's parents - when all of your original posts showed concern only for your business and current daycare parents. You also back peddled by saying you wanted some advice on how to handle the situation, viewpoints from those who may have dealt with similar situations, etc... but again, the only question you asked us is if WE would take a gender non-conforming child.

I really feel as though you made your decision to not take this family before ever posting here. And that's ok.

[countrymom]

I think that, without knowing the child or the family, you have no right to be making such a judgmental assumption.

so the only post you posted was on mine, did you even read the rest or just mine.

also, given what the op has written, it does seem like the parent is pushing the child, because what parent decides to discuss hormon therapy with a potential provider that will probably happen in 10 yrs from now.

and as a provider you know darn well that children are children and go thru phases to and we brace each child as they come, but we also know how parents are and how they can become defient, opionated and down right stubborn. We all know some parents also push gender on children or gender proper sports or even toys.

instead the parent shouldn't have said anything, why fix something that aint broken. So the child wants to wear pink, well I have other daycare boys who wear pink shirts to school (and if you didn't know its the hottest thing now) so he wants to play house and be a mommy, maybe his mom is a big influence in his life. And I will say that girl toys are WAY BETTER AND COOLER THAN BOY TOYS.

also I see no difference between a boy wanted to be a girl or a girl wanting to be a boy, but in that case why is it ok to call a girl a tomboy???

listen, take the child. No one is going to question it unless you bring it up and tell the others. What the child does at your house is your business and not the other parents. I don't go around telling the other parents that my ds who is 11 yrs old will play with his sister and she will paint his nails and do his hair.

just curious, is this a diagnosis from a doctor or something the parents have said.

[countrymom]

Wow, coming from a semi-rural area of the South, I do totally understand what you mean when you say you could lose business. I understand why you would be concerned. Other parents might not be cool with it. As someone working on providing in-home care and as a rather progressive person myself, I deal with people with extremely opposing views constantly and have a very difficult time finding like-minded parents in my very "traditional" area.

Coming from the perspective that my child will be in care with the other children I am caring for, if other parents were closed-minded enough that they would remove their children from my care for enrolling a non gender conforming child, I would fear that parents who would remove their children would have closed-minded beliefs imposed on their children, and I would rather lose them as clients than have my own child exposed to that at such a young age. No I don't plan to shelter him, but there is enough hatred in the world without having to explain actions like that to a 3 year old.

Also, Gender is a SOCIAL CONSTRUCT. I saw something funny a while back. It was a diagram of how to tell if a toy was for boys or girls. The first circle said "Do you operate the toy with your genitals?" Answer "yes" leads to the bubble "It's not meant for children" while answer "no" leads to "It's for boys and girls to play with"..... Just saying that liking a certain color, wearing certain clothes, and playing with certain toys doesn't mean anything. It's our adult brains that think it does.

I'm not trying to downplay transgender people, I'm saying that as adults, most of us have the idea that we should do what makes us happy. And if my own son wants to wear dresses, I dare any adult to try to stop him.

this, how many times have we now seen boy toys and girl toys. I know fisher price makes gender specific toys. I have dads who would die if they knew their boys played with dolls and talk about going shopping all the time (yup I have a 3 yr old like this, he cracks me up)
also, I think kids are way more receptive than we are. Little kids don't care who you are or what you like as long as its a friend to play with them, I love the way they think.

[spinnymarie]

Having now read this in full, I stick with my stance that I absolutely WOULD take this child and happily lose families that were unhappy about it.

However, though you didn't ask, I would recommend that YOU not take this child. If you are assuming that there will be drama, it's highly likely that there will be, and that child doesn't need any more drama than they are already destined for.

You are perfectly right to have your business's best interests as top priority. Let that family find a different daycare where there won't be any drama.

[crazydaycarelady]

What I do not and cannot support is you back peddling and suddenly saying you are concerned for the little boy's parents -

I never backpedaled and started supporting this boys parents. If anything I don't agree with them in that I feel they are making premature decisions about the boys future. (Saving money for college and planning for a gender reassignment are 2 very different things btw!)

You also back peddled by saying you wanted some advice on how to handle the situation, viewpoints from those who may have dealt with similar situations, etc... but again, the only question you asked us is if WE would take a gender non-conforming child.

Yes, I asked that question to open up a dialogue.

If you are assuming that there will be drama, it's highly likely that there will be

I don't feel I am wrong to assume there might be drama - the child's own mother feels there might be drama hence a lengthy interview to discuss her child and his behaviors. If this was just any old regular situation this topic never would have been brought to my attention.

I have not decided to take the child or not take the child. The mother is interviewing several places. Thinking back to the interview though, mother only wanted to discuss the child and did not care to discuss hours, rates, schedules, my contract, or anything like that which seems like a bad sign.

[JoseyJo]

It sounds like the family is Not A Good Fit for your program (or your program for the family) either way, it is best to let the family find a daycare that fully supports who they are as parents and for you to find a family that fully supports who you are as a daycare provider. It always works out best if BOTH the provider and parent are on the same page.

[My3cents]

Whatever! Yes, you are wrong.

I have 6 kids out due to the government shutdown. I am not wanting any more issues with enrollment.

I guess what bugs me about this thread is the fact that most of you act like there is something wrong with ME because the thought crossed my mind that this COULD cause some issue. My dh grew up in this town with a boy who transgendered to a woman. He was murdered because of it. So yeah, do I think this might cause an issue? Yes, I do.

Am I using that as an excuse to not watch the child? No!

I came here looking for advice, brainstorm possible situations that might come up, how I could handle them, if anyone else has encountered this. But as usual I got the high and mighty, rainbows and butterflies response. In a perfect world this child and his parents would never encounter discrimination, but we do NOT live in a perfect world.

discrimination comes in many forms, some is just way out there and noticed more then others. kids are discriminated every day at high schools around the USA that don't ware the "in" clothing trends for one example- that is just on the lower side of the scale of the more highlighted discriminating such as color, race, or gay- You will never get rainbows and butterfly responses from me. You will get honest answers and how I view issues at the time.

I would handle it as it came up. I would treat the child the same as the rest. I would not put up with anyone treating the child different, such as other parents. I wouldn't try to fix the child. I would love the child unconditional with acceptance, tolerance, and care. I would respect the parents wishes of how they wanted to handle this so long as they were not off the rocker of how I believe. I don't come from a place of hang ups, or my religion. What I won't tolerate from others is plain out cruelty and in general not a good person. Do I people watch and chuckle inside, maybe sometimes outside at others that are way different then me......yes. I have likes and dislikes for my own personal preference. If you choose to walk around with rainbow colored hair, don't be upset at me for looking at you. I find you unique- something I could not pull off, maybe wouldn't ever want to pull off for myself. I don't know what that makes me, I would like to think just me, normal me- whatever that might be.

I find there is good and bad in all people and that is what I look at-

I don't think there is anything wrong with you. We all base our decisions on our own personal experiences and education of the subject and our personal tolerance.

IF the above makes me butterfly and rainbows.... well both of those things are nice so I will own it.

[countrymom]

I never backpedaled and started supporting this boys parents. If anything I don't agree with them in that I feel they are making premature decisions about the boys future. (Saving money for college and planning for a gender reassignment are 2 very different things btw!)


Yes, I asked that question to open up a dialogue.



I don't feel I am wrong to assume there might be drama - the child's own mother feels there might be drama hence a lengthy interview to discuss her child and his behaviors. If this was just any old regular situation this topic never would have been brought to my attention.

I have not decided to take the child or not take the child. The mother is interviewing several places. Thinking back to the interview though, mother only wanted to discuss the child and did not care to discuss hours, rates, schedules, my contract, or anything like that which seems like a bad sign.

that is weird. so maybe she was looking for acceptance kwim. this explains why you knew so much about the family. So did the hours work for you or she didn't even discuss it. Did you even meet the child.

[My3cents]

I agree and the same with gay children/adults. I've even heard (a long time ago) of a judge giving custody of a gay grandchild to a grandparent because the grandparent didn't want her own gay daughter to raise him. Come on, that grandparent HAD the gay daughter. IF she thought that gayness could be learned then wouldn't she be the one who taught it??

Laurel

I personally believe that most gay people are born that way, but also some people choose that lifestyle

[My3cents]

I wonder if the "high and mighty" comments are directed at me???

If so, in my defense - I think a lot of posters here don't like me or think I'm a bitch because I don't put up with BS from anyone and I often call people out on what they say. There is nothing "high and mighty" about that. I don't think I'm better than anyone here, but I do think if people are going to post on a public forum they need to be prepared for various responses, many of which aren't going to fit in a pretty little box with a bow on top. I feel many of the ladies here just want "back up" in their decisions and when they find that someone disagrees they get defensive and say they always get the WRONG responses. If you don't want opinions - don't ask for 'em!

I love this about you! because when I ask for advise I truly want opinions of all sides so I can look at it for what it is worth and see where I align.

I don't have to agree with everyone or have everyone agree with me.

I too tell it like I see it.

You all bring so much to this forum, in general I think we all have one major thing in common and that is that we CARE