Sending Home For Behavior

[Brooksie]

Never before have I had to send someone home for behavior, but today I had no choice... I am at a loss as to what to do with this child. I try to be very proactive with the kids in my care and we focus on SEFEL, use natural consequences, and relaxation techniques but I can not get this child under control. I have never seen such disregard and disrespect from a 4 year old.

A little back story: This is his 3rd week in care and he is here full time throughout the day. His brother (7) and sister (10) are before and after care but will be here for summer care. The child care provider they are coming from was reported to CPS for the way she was treating the children (last straw was a disagreement with the CP and the 7 year old, and she ended up grabbing him by the back of the head and poured his apple juice in his face). I hear all the time from these kids about the crazy things she would say and how she handled them. The youngest (my trouble child) tells me all the time about how Ms. S hates him forever.

I think a lot of his issues are stemming from that care but I don't know how to help at this point. He's become SO disruptive and I'm really just at a loss. The behaviors he shows that get him in trouble include hitting, pushing, calling names, yelling at DD and the babies for getting too close to him, refusing to share and then taking toys or hitting the child involved, disrespect for our toys and rules... the list goes on and on...

I can see that a lot of his problems happen when he gets too excited, but if I see things are getting out of hand I will stop the group and we will all take deep breaths. He refuses and will plug his ears and say "I don't have to. I'm not going to listen to you" and then will turn his back or kick or throw something. Any time I invoke a natural consequence for his actions he flips. Refuses to calm down or sit on the couch. He wont talk about it. He says I'm not the boss and he doesn't have to follow the rules. He will run away from me and basically NOT acknowledge that he has done something wrong. He knocks things over in anger and tries to break things. Today he was getting into it with dd (2) at lunch and I moved her to a different table and then he proceeded to taunt her. So I moved his table 4 feet back and put the his chair on the opposite side (so that he wasn't facing her) and said he needed to eat his lunch quietly and he refused to sit down and just went crazy. Screaming at everyone, telling me to shut up and he hated me and that he didn't want to come back here, and that he doesn't need to listen to me.

I don't know what to do. I then had to tell him he needed to sit on the couch to calm down because that behavior is unacceptable but he refused. I am not about to grab him and force him to do anything but I have no idea how to handle this situation. Completely passive aggressive. I had to text his mom and tell her he needed to go home. He had both babies crying bc of the stress and pushed everyones nap time back an hour because he was being so disruptive while he was waiting to be picked up. It lasted up until the very last second before his uncle picked him up. Has any one had experience with this? We are a very happy environment and I've never seen such negativity from a child. I hate to term this family because his brother and sister love it here but what am I supposed to do? Am I approaching it wrong? I try to be proactive and we talk about our feelings and I encourage the kids to get involved in their own problem solving but some things I just can't tolerate. Disrespect is one of them. It's affecting every one else here and its just devastating our days.. I need help!!! I've never been a big Time-Out person but I don't know what else to do... but then again, I can't even get him to sit for that....

[daycare]

sounds like he needs some tough love...

I would not be giving in with so many chances and redirection at the age of 4. NO 1,2,3 counting. It's one and done.

we all know that not every form of consequence works for every child. I have some that sitting and thinking for a few minutes works and then some that it does not. I have some that have to sit on a ball and bounce until their little heart is content.

At this age, I would get a hula hoop....YOu hit, you sit... He will remember this rhyme. IF he gets up or out, you restart his time. you only say. you hit, you sit each time. Or you made a bad decision and walk away.

Lunch time I would have him sit in a different room until everyone is done and then he can come and eat his lunch alone. I don't stand for that type of behavior.

Lastly, I would tell mom that you will give her a call each time he acts up and you can't control him and she can come deal with it. I bet you how mom deals with his behavior will change. I had to do this with one of my favorite clients and she was draw dropped when I called her to tell her to come and take care of it. It started to become a daily thing and I siad, I love you, but if this continues we have to cut ties. Well that lasted all of 3 days and the child all of a sudden had a 180 change.

THis child has aged out, but comes to me every school closing and I love her to death......

[Brooksie]

We do the " you hit, you sit" but he wont sit. He will run from me and say he doesn't have to...

[Willow]

I hate to be this skeptical but are you sure the previous provider was actually guilty of doing what's been shared with you?

The way you describe him acting is textbook Oppositional Defiance Disorder....and along with that can come loads of outrageous lying......

I just don't want you to get ****ed into believing he's the victim if indeed he was the downfall of another provider's career.

[Brooksie]

I hate to be this skeptical but are you sure the previous provider was actually guilty of doing what's been shared with you?

The way you describe him acting is textbook Oppositional Defiance Disorder....and along with that can come loads of outrageous lying......

I just don't want you to get ****ed into believing he's the victim if indeed he was the downfall of another provider's career.

The other kids seem to have the same opinion of her but it has crossed my mind...

[Laurel]

Never before have I had to send someone home for behavior, but today I had no choice... I am at a loss as to what to do with this child. I try to be very proactive with the kids in my care and we focus on SEFEL, use natural consequences, and relaxation techniques but I can not get this child under control. I have never seen such disregard and disrespect from a 4 year old.

A little back story: This is his 3rd week in care and he is here full time throughout the day. His brother (7) and sister (10) are before and after care but will be here for summer care. The child care provider they are coming from was reported to CPS for the way she was treating the children (last straw was a disagreement with the CP and the 7 year old, and she ended up grabbing him by the back of the head and poured his apple juice in his face). I hear all the time from these kids about the crazy things she would say and how she handled them. The youngest (my trouble child) tells me all the time about how Ms. S hates him forever.

I think a lot of his issues are stemming from that care but I don't know how to help at this point. He's become SO disruptive and I'm really just at a loss. The behaviors he shows that get him in trouble include hitting, pushing, calling names, yelling at DD and the babies for getting too close to him, refusing to share and then taking toys or hitting the child involved, disrespect for our toys and rules... the list goes on and on...

I can see that a lot of his problems happen when he gets too excited, but if I see things are getting out of hand I will stop the group and we will all take deep breaths. He refuses and will plug his ears and say "I don't have to. I'm not going to listen to you" and then will turn his back or kick or throw something. Any time I invoke a natural consequence for his actions he flips. Refuses to calm down or sit on the couch. He wont talk about it. He says I'm not the boss and he doesn't have to follow the rules. He will run away from me and basically NOT acknowledge that he has done something wrong. He knocks things over in anger and tries to break things. Today he was getting into it with dd (2) at lunch and I moved her to a different table and then he proceeded to taunt her. So I moved his table 4 feet back and put the his chair on the opposite side (so that he wasn't facing her) and said he needed to eat his lunch quietly and he refused to sit down and just went crazy. Screaming at everyone, telling me to shut up and he hated me and that he didn't want to come back here, and that he doesn't need to listen to me.

I don't know what to do. I then had to tell him he needed to sit on the couch to calm down because that behavior is unacceptable but he refused. I am not about to grab him and force him to do anything but I have no idea how to handle this situation. Completely passive aggressive. I had to text his mom and tell her he needed to go home. He had both babies crying bc of the stress and pushed everyones nap time back an hour because he was being so disruptive while he was waiting to be picked up. It lasted up until the very last second before his uncle picked him up. Has any one had experience with this? We are a very happy environment and I've never seen such negativity from a child. I hate to term this family because his brother and sister love it here but what am I supposed to do? Am I approaching it wrong? I try to be proactive and we talk about our feelings and I encourage the kids to get involved in their own problem solving but some things I just can't tolerate. Disrespect is one of them. It's affecting every one else here and its just devastating our days.. I need help!!! I've never been a big Time-Out person but I don't know what else to do... but then again, I can't even get him to sit for that....

Hopefully him having to go home will have a big impact on the parents. I think you did the right thing. I'd be afraid that the other parents would consider leaving because their children are in such stressful conditions if it doesn't stop.

Do you have a resource/referral agency you can call? We have one that will send out experts to observe and give recommendations.

I agree that if he can't sit at lunch with the others then he eats alone after they are finished or before they begin.

If he won't sit when you ask him then tell him "If you don't sit now then you'll have to sit when your parents come to pick up and they can wait for you." Warn them ahead of time. Or pick one of his favorite activities/toys and tell him if he doesn't sit then he can't have/do his favorite thing for the day.

Laurel

[Willow]

The other kids seem to have the same opinion of her but it has crossed my mind...

Most people don't have the tools to effectively deal with a child who has ODD. It's not unusual after loads of built up frustration to ultimately escalate to yelling, punitive punishments and heaps of outright anger.

You yourself can feel the shift after just three weeks, going so far as to have to send him home, something you've never had to do before! And it's obvious your group is picking up on the extreme negativity as well. I know exactly how that feels, it's literally palpable!!!


If I were you I'd either:

1.) Put together a pretty substantial plan with the parents that will address the issue.....in writing lay out with them what is acceptable and what you will call them to pick up for. Outline how many chances will be given and what will happen when they run out. Best case scenario, do in tandem with option 2.)

2.) Require they get him a behavioral assessment and follow through with all recommendations (like therapy, which I believe he likely needs to start sooner rather than later or he'll never overcome this mentality in life).

3.) Term immediately. Kids with ODD who are not assessed and treated will be toxic to you and the rest of the kids in your care. They will reduce your program to rubble unless you are really equipped to handle them.

You should emphasize to these parents that at this point it doesn't matter how he came to be this way, all that does is that he gets the help he needs from here on out.


Any Early Childhood Intervention program will get him rolling in the right direction. You can call your county licensor to get the parents a phone number if they're not sure where to start.


Don't take no for an answer and don't feel guilty if you find it's too much for you to handle. There is zero shame in respectfully declaring to them that he needs more help than you can provide....especially because of the sketchy nature of what happened with the last provider.

[Sugar Magnolia]

Term, seriously.

[wdmmom]

My dd was diagnosed with ODD when she was 6. She's now 13. Between that and the whole teenager ordeal, she's enough to send me into the depths of craziness sometimes!

If you need help or suggestions, please pm me and I'll do the best I can to help!

[nannyde]

He needs his own adult. It's not safe to have him in your home without an adult just for him who is trained to manage violent children. He needs to be where he is funded for one to one care and the environment is SAFE for him when he physically acts out. It's not fair to him to have him at your house. You aren't equipped to manage his special needs.

[Childminder]

I hate to be this skeptical but are you sure the previous provider was actually guilty of doing what's been shared with you?

The way you describe him acting is textbook Oppositional Defiance Disorder....and along with that can come loads of outrageous lying......

I just don't want you to get ****ed into believing he's the victim if indeed he was the downfall of another provider's career.

School psychologist told me that ODD is a term they came up with to label children that used to be called BRATS.

[daycare]

can ask why you would plan for following a plan of action as if the child was diagnosed with some disorder??


I am not trying to start anything here, I am just asking because I am having a hard time with the whole label and diagnose thing....

It seems like I deal with a lot of parents that would rather label their child with some disorder than just Parent their child....

[Willow]

School psychologist told me that ODD is a term they came up with to label children that used to be called BRATS.

While for some that might be true I do think that for most there's far more to it than that.

Sort of like how 100 years ago those with neurological disorders were all just declared mentally challenged or possessed and locked up in state psychiatric hospitals.

Evolution is (usually) a good thing in that regard

[Willow]

can ask why you would plan for following a plan of action as if the child was diagnosed with some disorder??


I am not trying to start anything here, I am just asking because I am having a hard time with the whole label and diagnose thing....

It seems like I deal with a lot of parents that would rather label their child with some disorder than just Parent their child....

No one is labeling, just drawing some parallels based on all the similarities.

Which is why the recommendation was to set up a behavioral contract, get a behavioral assessment, or as many have suggested - just term.


Most diagnoses start with a hunch. That's what gets people in to see the professionals.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

I hate to be this skeptical but are you sure the previous provider was actually guilty of doing what's been shared with you?

The way you describe him acting is textbook Oppositional Defiance Disorder....and along with that can come loads of outrageous lying......

I just don't want you to get ****ed into believing he's the victim if indeed he was the downfall of another provider's career.

Oppositional Defiant Disorder is a heck of a thing to have to deal with as a provider. I raised a child who had it (still has it, but I no longer raise him).

I second the behavioral plan. If you'd like a copy of one I used, please PM your e-mail address and I'd be more than happy to send it to you so you could get an idea of what one provider used.