Is it Common For Parents to Vacation Without Children?

[professionalmom]

i haven't read all of the posts, but for the record - i don't give a DAMN what anyone thinks about me. my children both went to daycare when they were six weeks old and i don't make excuses nor apologize for it. i did NOT want to stay at home 24/7 and if you think being a working mom by choice = bad mom then you are stupid.

No one ever said that being a working mom = bad mom. :confused: You are just taking other people’s words and twisting them. My guess is that, subconsciously, you feel guilty, so you take offense to anyone saying that children need to be with their parents as much as possible. As I have said over and over, if the child needs to be in daycare for the parents to WORK, then it’s a situation of “you have to do what you have to do.” That is why we are here as daycare providers, to support those who need it. There is a BIG difference between that and using daycare as a backup when the parent just doesn’t feel like being a parent that day or week, turn around and go home to “rest” or take a vacation.

other than being in daycare while i was working, my kids have spent FOUR days away from me and my husband their entire life. once again, if you think that's selfish then you are stupid.

That is exactly the situation that I completely support. As you said, they were with you EXCEPT when you were at work. That’s what I like to hear – parents who spend as much time as possible, outside of work, with their children. Therefore, I do not understand why you are so defensive. :confused: Nothing I ever said was directed at parents like you.

as i said before, what's different about parents that have "date nights" once a week or once a month and parents who DON'T have date nights but then take a vacation?

Once a week? Seriously. After spending 50+ hours away from your kids? How about a date night with your kids to “reconnect” with them too? Sure everyone needs a night away from the kids – but once a week? And most of the parents I know in my personal life (not the daycare families) have date nights once every 6-8 weeks (if they’re lucky) and take those after the kids are in bed and never take a vacation without the kids until the kids are at least 5 years old. So, it’s not an either / or situation. The ones who take date nights once a week are also the ones who take week long vacations away from their kids.

i went on a vacation with my daughter when she was 4 for a week and left my husband and son behind. was i being a bad mom/wife to my son and husband - or a good mom to my daughter?

You left your son in the care of his FATHER. That’s not the same as pawning him off to a family member or stranger. He was still with one of his parents. Again, you’re comparing apples to oranges.

i'm sure you don't like when people say your kids are "sheltered" and unable to adjust in the real world. btw, i've said it before - kids who have never been away from their parents or gone to preschool are the WORST when they start school. you're not doing them any favors.

Really, where’s your research to back that up. I had my mom the entire time during my formative years and on my first day of kindergarten, I was excited and thrilled to go and learn and meet new friends. I never shed a tear. My DD, who will be 2 tomorrow, has never cried when I had to leave her with her dad, grandma, grandpa, uncle, aunt, or cousin. Although I have never taught her how to be gentle and kind to animals, she is and has always been. She pets them gently and lovingly. She has never been violent toward any of the daycare kids in my care, even though THEY have hit her and bit her. She walks right up to other people and tries to hand them a toy as an offer of friendship. She is the sweetest child I have ever seen. She sees time away from mom and dad as an adventure, not a traumatic event. It does not evoke fear of permanent loss, like it did in so many of my past daycare kids. Separation anxiety has never been an issue with my DD. I guess that’s what you call being “unable to adjust in the real world.”

my goal for my children is for them to be INDEPENDENT adults and i really don't think spending a week away from them every 5 years or so is a bad thing IF that's your goal. when i took my 4 day trip, my kids were happy to talk to me on the phone and were asking if i was having fun! they didn't care because we have a SECURE relationship and they knew i was coming back. it's really NOT that big of a deal. .

My goal is to also raise strong independent children. But I also know that the foundation of that is to provider a solid, secure sense of security and attachment to others, starting with the first relationship they have ever, or will ever encounter, the parent / child relationship. If you are only taking a vacation every 5 years, then you are not the type of parent any of us were talking about. We were talking about the ones that always use their vacations as “get-aways” from their kids after spending very little time with them in the first place.

but it's obvious as the conversation progressed that you believe kids should be stuck up your ass 365 days a year for 18 years. good luck with having independent, self sufficient adults!

When did anyone every say that parents should be with their kids 365 days a year for 18 years? :confused: All I ever said was “as much as possible” during the formative years and that once the children are school-age separate vacations are more acceptable (because they can go to camp, grandma’s, friends’, etc.). How does THAT translate into 365 days a year for 18 years? Oddly, I have found that when people overexaggerate, it's usually for the same reason that other people resort to using derogatory language.

And here’s a question, especially for QualiTcare: since when did it become a BAD thing to spend as much time as possible taking care of your own children and being an at-home mom during their FORMATIVE YEARS? From the way you are talking, a child who is NOT in daycare is less of a person and less prepared for the “real world” than children in daycare? Please, please, please show me the studies, statistics, and/or research on this! Because every piece of research I have seen says the EXACT OPPOSITE. I never said you, or parents like you are bad parents. But you are definitely getting hostile toward parents who are parenting their children themselves and staying home to do it. You made it sound like parents like me (at-home moms) are hindering our children in some way.

If that’s what you must tell yourself so you feel better, then go ahead and live in that self-imposed world of delusions.

[nannyde]

A provider down the street from me has a teacher's child in care...Mom's at home all summer long...guess where the kids are???

Yup, 50+ hours a week in care.

Yup and I think this will become a very common trend.

Providers have always had to juggle the "teachers kid" thing of figuring out how to charge them and how to retain them without loosing three months of salary on the kids.

I think soon enough you will see that teachers who want only school time care will be less and less. I also think it will become very common for first born kids to be in day care the majority if not all of the maternity leave for the second kid. That's really common now. It didn't used to be. It used to be that you would know once baby number two came along that you would have six... eight weeks with loss of income on kid one. Now it's pretty common for the kid one to stay in care the entire time.

It's always done under the "he needs to stay in his routine... he wants his friends... it gives me TIME to spend with the new baby... etc. Truth is that it's NOT that hard to take care of a newborn and one toddler. It's OKAY if kids go out of day care for two months and go back. They don't MISS their friends. I've never met a kid who wouldn't want to be home with Mom for two months with their new baby sibling rather than be at the same day care they have been going to full time day after day for ten hours a day for two years. OF COURSE THEY WANT TO BE WITH THEIR MOTHER!!!

Caring for multiple kids while caring for your newborn has been done for THOUSANDS of years but this generation of parents can put words on it that make it seem okay AND in the best interest of the kid but deep down.. we all know the truth. It's not in anyones best interest except for the parents.

Your teachers decision to have them in day care all summer is not in their best interest. It's in the parents best interest. Chances are she has her self convinced it's okay and having a society where we keep slamming parents with "you NEED time to yourself" "It's QUALITY time not quantity time"... "your a better parent if you take care of YOURSELF".. blah blah.

Now we have kids in care for three months who have a parent who is OFF of work.

[nannyde]

I have a question. If you are so set against parents who do not spend all of their paid time off with their children, and they disgust you to the point of making a huge issue of it on an open forum, then why do you not terminate those families and enroll ONLY families with the same philosophy of care as you. It's pretty simple really. If you do not like the parent because they tend to be selfish, then why do you still work with them? Honestly, if I had families who took regular days off and always left their child with me, or took regular vacations without their child and their child NEVER got a family vacation, I would tell the parent how I felt and let the chips fall where they may. Of course, I don't have families like this and I can be very open, honest and forthcoming with my families when there is a REAL issue, I guess I have been very lucky, because I just don't have these types of issues.

Now, I am NOT saying that parents SHOULD spend their vacation time without their children....(I would never do that sort of thing, my kids have been on a minimum of three family vacations per year with me and my husband since they were very small, and they have seen many parts of our great country and me and hubby have been away for the weekend three times in 19 years without the kids.) BUT, as I have said before, these are not OUR children, and we don't live in their households to realize WHY parents may need that time away, (it could be many things, stress being one of them) so honestly, it's none of our business. Our business is to provide a quality, loving environment AWAY from the child's home and parent, not to mind the business of the parents or to be the parent.

I have a question. If you are so set against parents who do not spend all of their paid time off with their children, and they disgust you to the point of making a huge issue of it on an open forum, then why do you not terminate those families and enroll ONLY families with the same philosophy of care as you.

Here I'll answer it for you. I had a policy for about the first 14 years I did day care that I would not care for children when their parents weren't working. I interviewed each parent and they signed a contract saying they would not bring their kid if they weren't working.

They willingly signed it... parent after parent. Why? Because the vast majority of kids I took into my day care were newborns. When Mom is home with a baby for six weeks... eight weeks... twelve weeks.. they are still madly in love with their baby. They've had time when they didn't have to work and could devote their all to their kids. Most were upset at having to go back to work. They couldn't even IMAGINE having their kid in day care a minute longer than they HAD to.

They all cried on the first day... second day... sometimes for three or four days. After a few weeks in care their lives change. They are back in the real world and they see how much easier it is to not have their kid. They get back into the groove of having to work for someone and for the first time have to balance being a worker and a parent. It's way harder to do it then when you are home for the first few months... being able to nap... being able to get stuff done... being able to have family help... friends over... then BAM into the real world.

For the first few months they are pretty good about it. Then the kid starts to crawl. As soon as the kid is mobile everything changes. As soon as it's HARD to care for them... hard to get stuff done... hard to pull them in and out of a carseat...way less napping and when they get napping it's almost always cat napping.. WAY more awake time... THAT'S when the mindset starts to creep in that they will just do a little of this and a little of that before they pick the kid up. They will go to this appointment without the kid... cuz it's "better" for the kid if they just stay in their routine and not be disrupted.

Once the kid starts crawling and then walking you get a lot less offers of assistance. People who were all about helping you now have stuff to do. Now they know your kid staying with them is going to be work. If you have a kid who has to be held, walked, rocked in order to be happy you will have few offers to help you out.

So.. the out is day care. That's the one place you can take them and have time off. It starts with a little bit of running here and there and a few months later it's all day every day you have off. Instead of using an occasional time where the hours are extended either before or after day care... those occasional turn into EVERY day. Those odd hours are THE hours your kid is in care.

As the kid gets older it gets even harder. With the current discipline methods being so limited and ineffective you have parents who can't see to do anything but let the kid rule. The more the kid rules the less the parents like being around them.

Now... you can't see this when you are interviewing a Mom with a few weeks of parenting under her belt. You can't determine their "philosophy" because what they know about caring for their kid is SO limited and NOT based on hard. They have all sorts of ideas about how they will do this and they wouldn't even CONSIDER having the kid away from them if they didn't HAVE to but the truth is the parent they see when they look in the mirror when they are newbie parent RARELY reflects the parent they will see a year from now.

You can tell a LOT more about parents when they have some time under their belts. I don't take kids this age anymore as all my kids come in as newborns/infants. I quit offering slots to older kids because I couldn't find older kids who didn't come to me with a huge host of behavior problems. The parenting philosophy I see is for the most part not good. Now and then a good one would come along but you have a LOT better chance of integrating a baby into your care regardless of the parents "philosophy" because you have them young and without a ton of bad habits.

I think you are doing a HUGE disservice to providers to suggest you have some formula, experience, draw, or judgment that can weed out parents who shun their kids when they are off of work. I don't believe it. I don't believe it one bit. I know from your writings that it's not true. I think you have decided that it's okay for them to do it because you KNOW you can't stay in business if you don't allow it.

I'm right there with ya on that. I had the policy for 14 years that I didn't allow kids in day care if the parent wasn't working and all I got was 14 years of deceit. I had some that abided by it I think.. but I can never really know. I finally gave up on it and don't even bring it up now. I can find parents that pay on time... pick up on time.. drop off on time.. send their kids in clean clothes... feed healthy food at home... give me a whopping big fat bonus and a nice weekly check... but I can't find a full GROUP of parents who keep their kids home when they are off of work. I gave it the hardest try a provider could in the first fourteen years I did day care and I finally surrendered. I finally came to the conclusion that there is NO market for day care where you keep your kid in day care only when you NEED it to go to work especially if the price is the same whether you use it or not.

That's what you do too... you just call it something else. You call it picking the right parents I call it business survival.

[emosks]

As mandated reporters, it IS our job to care. Even if it does NOT rise to the level of "legal" neglect. But your comment insinuated that as long as they pay you, you will keep your eyes and ears shut and your mouth zipped. It sounded a little like "it doesn't matter what they do as long as I get my money." I AM NOT quoting you, I said it SOUNDED LIKE. So do NOT take my words and twist them like you have already tried to do. Again, even though it does NOT rise to a reportable offense, it is still neglect in my book, whether you agree with it or not. And the research backs up the FACT that the more hours a child is away from his/her parents, the worse the damage and long-term consequences are. But if you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend that it's "none of your business" and "not your problem", go right ahead.

Frankly, I don't get why this is even an issue. We are talking about young children. They need their parents during the formative years. Period. The research has been done to death on it and it is conclusive. Period. End of story. I just don't get how anyone can defend, let alone support, parents WANTING to be away from their children as much as they can possibly get away or stay away.

But I guess you will continue to misquote me, twist my words around and, and defend your position until your dying breath. So I guess to end this "argument" I should just concede to YOUR position and agree that parents should be able to do whatever their little hearts desire, no matter what effect it has on their children, as long as I get my money and it doesn't cross that line of neglect or abuse. To heck with the children! Let's just sacrifice the children's NEEDS for the sake of the parents' COMFORT, DESIRES, and WANTS! After all, they matter so much more than the children.

I guess the problem here is that you are reading my words how YOU want to and I'm reading your words how I want to. That's the problem with the internet. I've never said "To heck with the children" or anything to that sort. I said that if they want to take a dang vacation without their children it's not my business. Once a year vacation is NOT going to hurt the child...at least the ones in my care. They are thriving, smart, children whose parents spend quality time with them. That's the kind of parents I chose to care for. They are my friends and I will defend them.

[emosks]

I keep reading posts about how going on a date every 6-8 weeks is sufficient and once a week is too much. Ever wonder why the divorce rate is so high? If I only had alone time (outside the bedroom) with my husband once every 2 months...we'd for sure need a vacation without kids! You have to focus on your marriage too!

[Unregistered]

What are all your daycare children doing while you are all on the computer posting about what bad parents people are for not spending every waking moment in the company of their children? Do these bad parents realize that they are paying you to do this? Just curious.

[professionalmom]

Nannyde, I love your explanations! You truly "get it". When you described older children being in daycare while mom is on maternity leave, bonding with the newborn, I really get it. My DD will be 2 tomorrow! I'm due with twins in late Nov / early Dec (hoping to make it to Nov since twins usually come early). We decided to try for #2 when DD started to show signs of being "big sisterly" to my younger DC kids. Before then, we were concerned about how SHE would handle having to share mom and dad 24/7. It wasn't just when WE were ready. It was about her as well. When we found out I was pregnant, we were hoping for a water birth at home with a midwife, just so DD could be there immediately to meet her new brother or sister. Studies have shown that the sooner they meet, the closer their bond. Plus, I wanted the new baby to be OUR (DH, DD, and my) baby, not just mommy and daddy's baby. Although I am thrilled we are having twins, it does break my heart that I will be in the hospital (probably with a c-section) and she won't be able to be more of a part of it. But I want her with us at home when we bring the twins home. I have always thought that it would be FAMILY bonding time. For the past 5 months, DD has been kissing my belly and saying "baby" while pointing to my belly. She already loves being a big sis, even if she's not fully aware of what it means. I also ask her "where are YOUR babies?" and she points to my belly. The twins are not just mine and daddy's, they are hers too.

Sure, I need time to bond with the babies, but so does my DD. We want to spend as much time all together as we can during those first few weeks and months, especially sine it will right around Thankgiving and Christmas. Plus, my mom and MIL will be around to help. I love the idea that both grandmas, DD, the twin girls, and I will all be there to bond and our common girlness. Three women, a toddler, and 2 babies - what a celebration! Oh, yeah, there will also be daddy, grandpa and an uncle, too.

I guess I just think of bringing a new baby (or babies) into the family as an addition for the WHOLE family, not just the parents. But, I have to balance that with the fact that I will have help. I'm sure some don't. But new babies sleep A LOT. And women have been doing it sine the begining of time, so what makes it so impossible now, in 2010?

Now, I know some people will twist this around to make me out to be self-righteous and holier-than-thou. But, once again, it is only my thoughts and feelings for my own family. Even if someone has a different view point, that's ok. I am NOT saying my way is RIGHT or the ONLY way, just that I can't imagine it being any different.

Plus, what Nannyde said about the older kids wanting to be home with mom is so true, but I have also seen where the older kids want to be home with the new baby too. Children are in awe of new babies. They like to try to feed the baby, change them, hold them, rock them, etc. It's a great time for them to learn about babies and bond with the new little bundle, instead of resenting him or her.

Also, when you described the stages of modern motherhood from new mom to school-ager mom, you hit the nail on the head. Personally, I think many people WANT to have babies and children, but get overwhelmed by exactly how hard it is to really do the job. Just like home ownership seems great until you realize that you have at least twice as many utility bills, have to mow the lawn, shovel the walk, etc. There's a lot more work involved than what people realize.

I just feel bad for the kids that spend 10+ hours away from their parent every day, then the parents claim they need a "break" from them. I have actually seen parents who do not interact or talk to their children and instead opt for talking on the cell phone, almost every time they came to pick up their children. I even tried to implement a no cell phone policy at one point. Is it that hard to give your own child a hug and kiss after being away from him or her for 10 or more hours?

[actaktmdt]

Sadly, yes, it is becoming the norm.
Should it be the "norm"? NO! Is the "norm" always the "right"? NO!
Do their kids pick up on this? YES! Will their kids grow up to understand that their parents really didn't want to spend time with them? YES!
Is this selfish parenting? ABSOLUTELY!

No its not selfish parenting at all. In fact taking time to focus on one another is often in the best intersted of the kids. Lots of studies show that parents who take the time to connect with one another have a much better family dynamic than those who do not. Unfortently the OP was not refercing what you are throughout the entire post. She is asking about a vacation. Nothing is mentioned about weeks upon weeks like you are assume.

! Another thing - since when is it a bad thing for children to have other adults love and care for them occasionally? I'm so incredibly thankful to have my parents, sisters, in-laws and sisters-in-law and yes, when I was working our DCP, around to help us with our four children! I think my kids are incredibly lucky to be growing up so close to their extended family!

It is actually quite healthy for children to see how other people live. It only contiunes to foster their ideas of familys and what a family means, and what a family does. Want examples. Look at children who are taken from their parents and placed into foster care...and yes My family has had real life experice on this end as my parents are foster parents. The kids have contacted my parents and made comments about how they learend how to truly be a family and what it means....While they didnt come from the worst of worst home, they realized what a true family is.

Let's face it. What we ALL know we are talking about here are parents who have 4,6,8 or even more PAID vacation weeks a year and never, ever spend a single one of those days with their kids but dump them in daycare instead. We all see it all the time these days.
I DO think there CAN be a balance but I'm personally not seeing that balance. Here's what I see happening.....
Parents are on paid vacation and decide to stay home but bring their kids to daycare every...single...day of that time off from the minute the provider opens to the minute they close.
Parents on paid vacation who chose to go away. They leave the kids with grandma for the week and grandma brings the kids to daycare all week long.
hell, now I even see parents with two weeks off over CHRISTMAS who bring their kids every freaking day the provider is open. I mean, seriously, if you can't even spend time with your kids on what, for them, is one of the most magical times of childhood then yes, I WILL deem them selfish.
As with anything in life no one falls into the 100% category of anything. But there are PLENTY of parents out there who fall into the 99% category.
I have had kids in care whose parents pay on time, are never late, follow the policies, would NEVER think to send their kid sick to care. But those SAME parents (whom any provider would thank their lucky stars to have) never, in the 3 or 4 years their kids were in care spent a SINGLE vacation day with them.Now, how is THAT not selfish?I think that what people HERE on this forum need to remember is that for the most part, because we stay at home with our kids WE see the importance of our PRESENCE in their daily lives. We do NOT fall into the 99% club.

Sorry lady, but you dont know my families nor how I run my daycare. My families first off dont get that large amounts of vacation. In fact one company pulled all paid vacation and told them if they want one, they get it unpaid. Can they afford taking an unpaid vacation? Nope they sure cant.

Should the single mom who ended up being put on medical leave for 6 weeks for an issue have not brought her kid to daycare and stayed home with her. Absolutly she should have...it was in her best intersted to get healthy and stable in order to get everything back into order. Did she bring her to daycare...... yes. Had she not brought her she would not be where is right now. She is currently on vacation with her child in another state.

Because most people have fragile egos. They care about other people's opinions of them and therefore assume, wrongly most of the time, that any comment is therefore directed at them. Then they get defensive.

SO its okay to start name calling? Judy I thought we were all adults talking about our opinnions here.

It sounds to me like most of you who do talk about parents like this need to find a new profession...or new families. I guess we are just so blessed to have such awesome families that are nothing like what you all describe.

I forget....you and a few others on the board are always right! DUH! What was I thinking?

I agree and if we dont agree with their thoughts than we dont know anything..

Okay, so no research then. Gotcha!

You failed to provide your own. You mention others work they have shown but not your own...interesting.

And then you came and made it personal about YOU. It wasn't about YOU. YOU made it that way.

Emosks did not make her postings herself at all. She simply was stating an example that happend in her daycare...GET OVER YOUR SELF your using your situtaion as basis for all and thats not how it is sorry.

[professionalmom]

What are all your daycare children doing while you are all on the computer posting about what bad parents people are for not spending every waking moment in the company of their children? Do these bad parents realize that they are paying you to do this? Just curious.

I happen to have shut down due to a bed rest order from my OB regarding my high risk twin pregnancy. Now, I really can't speak for others, but prior to shutting down, I would post during nap times (if there was time after all the cleaning, prepping for the PM, and paperwork was done) or after the bedtime (8pm), or on days I did not have DC kids. So, no one was paying me to be on here and NOT do my job. And I agree, while you have DC kids who are awake, they (or we) shouldn't be on here posting. But thank you so much for assuming that we are posting with kids running around the house with us ignoring them.

[actaktmdt]

I keep reading posts about how going on a date every 6-8 weeks is sufficient and once a week is too much. Ever wonder why the divorce rate is so high? If I only had alone time (outside the bedroom) with my husband once every 2 months...we'd for sure need a vacation without kids! You have to focus on your marriage too!

Did you know that marriages where parents focus only on the children for the childhood years are 3x's as likly to divorice than those who dont take the time to focus on one another during this time. Yes there is data that proves this.

Also someone pointed out their priorites order (god parenting, marriage) and how proud they were about having their children spend very little time outside of them...Im sorry but biblically thats not what the bible teaches. The bible actually states that we should put God first, Marriage Second and third our children.

[emosks]

What are all your daycare children doing while you are all on the computer posting about what bad parents people are for not spending every waking moment in the company of their children? Do these bad parents realize that they are paying you to do this? Just curious.

They were upstairs making their lunch while I was on the internet.

But if you must know...there are 3 of us that work here and I jump on the board when I'm updating kids sheets or doing other office work or during nap time. Thanks for your concern though!

[QualiTcare]

No one ever said that being a working mom = bad mom. :confused: You are just taking other people’s words and twisting them. My guess is that, subconsciously, you feel guilty, so you take offense to anyone saying that children need to be with their parents as much as possible. As I have said over and over, if the child needs to be in daycare for the parents to WORK, then it’s a situation of “you have to do what you have to do.” That is why we are here as daycare providers, to support those who need it. There is a BIG difference between that and using daycare as a backup when the parent just doesn’t feel like being a parent that day or week, turn around and go home to “rest” or take a vacation.



That is exactly the situation that I completely support. As you said, they were with you EXCEPT when you were at work. That’s what I like to hear – parents who spend as much time as possible, outside of work, with their children. Therefore, I do not understand why you are so defensive. :confused: Nothing I ever said was directed at parents like you.



Once a week? Seriously. After spending 50+ hours away from your kids? How about a date night with your kids to “reconnect” with them too? Sure everyone needs a night away from the kids – but once a week? And most of the parents I know in my personal life (not the daycare families) have date nights once every 6-8 weeks (if they’re lucky) and take those after the kids are in bed and never take a vacation without the kids until the kids are at least 5 years old. So, it’s not an either / or situation. The ones who take date nights once a week are also the ones who take week long vacations away from their kids.



You left your son in the care of his FATHER. That’s not the same as pawning him off to a family member or stranger. He was still with one of his parents. Again, you’re comparing apples to oranges.



Really, where’s your research to back that up. I had my mom the entire time during my formative years and on my first day of kindergarten, I was excited and thrilled to go and learn and meet new friends. I never shed a tear. My DD, who will be 2 tomorrow, has never cried when I had to leave her with her dad, grandma, grandpa, uncle, aunt, or cousin. Although I have never taught her how to be gentle and kind to animals, she is and has always been. She pets them gently and lovingly. She has never been violent toward any of the daycare kids in my care, even though THEY have hit her and bit her. She walks right up to other people and tries to hand them a toy as an offer of friendship. She is the sweetest child I have ever seen. She sees time away from mom and dad as an adventure, not a traumatic event. It does not evoke fear of permanent loss, like it did in so many of my past daycare kids. Separation anxiety has never been an issue with my DD. I guess that’s what you call being “unable to adjust in the real world.”



My goal is to also raise strong independent children. But I also know that the foundation of that is to provider a solid, secure sense of security and attachment to others, starting with the first relationship they have ever, or will ever encounter, the parent / child relationship. If you are only taking a vacation every 5 years, then you are not the type of parent any of us were talking about. We were talking about the ones that always use their vacations as “get-aways” from their kids after spending very little time with them in the first place.



When did anyone every say that parents should be with their kids 365 days a year for 18 years? :confused: All I ever said was “as much as possible” during the formative years and that once the children are school-age separate vacations are more acceptable (because they can go to camp, grandma’s, friends’, etc.). How does THAT translate into 365 days a year for 18 years? Oddly, I have found that when people overexaggerate, it's usually for the same reason that other people resort to using derogatory language.

And here’s a question, especially for QualiTcare: since when did it become a BAD thing to spend as much time as possible taking care of your own children and being an at-home mom during their FORMATIVE YEARS? From the way you are talking, a child who is NOT in daycare is less of a person and less prepared for the “real world” than children in daycare? Please, please, please show me the studies, statistics, and/or research on this! Because every piece of research I have seen says the EXACT OPPOSITE. I never said you, or parents like you are bad parents. But you are definitely getting hostile toward parents who are parenting their children themselves and staying home to do it. You made it sound like parents like me (at-home moms) are hindering our children in some way.

If that’s what you must tell yourself so you feel better, then go ahead and live in that self-imposed world of delusions.

first of all, i don't need to tell myself anything in order to "feel better." i already said my kids went to daycare as infants and i don't feel bad nor apologize for it. i CHOOSE to work. i stopped doing daycare so i could go back to work in the "real world."

i guess i'm a bad parent because i choose to go to work away from home when my bills don't depend on it. people will say, "oh, no, that's not what i meant," but in other threads and repeatedly, it has been said, "i understand when both parents HAVE to work." which implies that if they don't absolutely HAVE to then it's wrong! i've also said before - why is a man that works 50,60,70 hours a week a "good man" and a "hard worker" but if the mother wants to work full time then she's "missing out" and "doesn't realize what she's missing."

the working v. stay at home mom debate is nothing new. it's been going on forever. there's nothing WRONG with staying at home with your kids if you WANT to just like there's nothing wrong with NOT staying at home if you DONT want to. neither side needs to justify themselves.

you'll notice though that a lot of stay at home moms are still stay at home moms when their kids are teenagers and are in school all day or even have jobs themselves. that does make me wonder about the "not wanting to miss any time" excuse. i DO think there are a lot of women that just don't want to work and it makes them look better to say they want to be there for the kids.

[professionalmom]

No its not selfish parenting at all. In fact taking time to focus on one another is often in the best intersted of the kids. Lots of studies show that parents who take the time to connect with one another have a much better family dynamic than those who do not. Unfortently the OP was not refercing what you are throughout the entire post. She is asking about a vacation. Nothing is mentioned about weeks upon weeks like you are assume. .

And the only way to connect with your SO or spouse is to take a week long vacation away from the children (I am ONLY talking about children under 5 years old – people. Do not blow this up again to mean 17 year old children)? Actually, statistics prove that couples that spend a little time each DAY or at least each WEEK re-connecting have the healthiest relationships. Some things that are cited as the best predictors of long term marital success: does your spouse give you a kiss goodbye? Hello? Do you give each other a compliment at least 3 times a week (preferably every day)? Do you talk about things other than money, kids, and chores? These are just a FEW ways to stay connected. And it’s much easier to STAY connected on a daily basis than RE-CONNECT a couple times a year or even once a month. You don’t need a fancy restaurant, a hotel, or a beach for that. Just open your mouth and TALK to your spouse. Communication is the key, not a vacation.

It is actually quite healthy for children to see how other pepole live. It only contiunes to foster their ideas of familys and what a family means, and what a family does. Want examples. Look at children who are taken from their parents and placed into foster care...and yes My family has had real life experice on this end as my parents are foster parents. The kids have contacted my parents and made comments about how they learend how to truly be a family and what it means....While they didnt come from the worst of worst home, they realized what a true family is.

And that is what the extended family, our church family, and our friends’ families are for. Do you honestly think that the only way to learn about other family structures is without mom and dad present?

Should the single mom who ended up being put on medical leave for 6 weeks for an issue have not brought her kid to daycare and stayed home with her. Absolutly she should have...it was in her best intersted to get healthy and stable in order to get everything back into order. Did she bring her to daycare...... yes. Had she not brought her she would not be where is right now. She is currently on vacation with her child in another state.

When did anyone say this would not be acceptable? Obviously if a parent is in ill health the child needs to be cared for by someone else. This is NOT the example given by the OP. As you so eloquently advised Judy to do – stay on topic, don’t go running off reading more into it and making up other scenarios.


[QUOTE=actaktmdt;38399]

It sounds to me like most of you who do talk about parents like this need to find a new profession...or new families. I guess we are just so blessed to have such awesome families that are nothing like what you all describe.

I forget....you and a few others on the board are always right! DUH! What was I thinking? QUOTE]

I agree and if we dont agree with their thoughts than we dont know anything..

No one ever said that you don’t know anything or that you’re “stupid” as one poster tried to claim some people (possibly me) are. Funny, how if someone doesn’t agree with YOU or those with your opinion, then she is (or I am) told to “find a new profession” and told that we are judgmental or stupid. You have every right in the world to have your opinion and I do not fault you for it. But I do have a right to my opinion as well – respect THAT. I never said that I’m a better mom because I do this or that. I simply stated that I am proud that I have been with my child for most of her life and she is never in the care of non-relatives. Instead of “good for you” or “I wish I could do that”, some people got defensive. Heaven help me if I mention I have a college degree. They might think I’m arrogant and shouldn’t BRAG or be proud of the hard work and dedication I put into things. Sorry for having a moment of pride.

You failed to provide you own you mention others work they have shown but not your own...intersting.

Actually, she did in another thread, that same day. Go check it all out. I think the title is “modern parenting”. So, checkmate – Judy (and sometimes I) do give CITED research references. Have you or anyone who supports your position? Hmmmm…

Emosks did not make her postings herself at all. She simply was stating an example that happend in her daycare...GET OVER YOUR SELF your using your situtaion as basis for all and thats not how it is sorry.

Again, Judy DID use outside research that she posted in a different thread. So SHE was not relying just on personal experience. She backed up what she said. Did you? Did any of those who agree with you? Again, hmmmm…

[emosks]

Funny, how if someone doesn’t agree with YOU or those with your opinion, then she is (or I am) told to “find a new profession” and told that we are judgmental or stupid. You have every right in the world to have your opinion and I do not fault you for it. But I do have a right to my opinion as well – respect THAT. I never said that I’m a better mom because I do this or that. I simply stated that I am proud that I have been with my child for most of her life and she is never in the care of non-relatives. Instead of “good for you” or “I wish I could do that”, some people got defensive. Heaven help me if I mention I have a college degree. They might think I’m arrogant and shouldn’t BRAG or be proud of the hard work and dedication I put into things. Sorry for having a moment of pride.

I don't think it's that we don't respect your opinions...but I personally felt like she was telling me that my families are liars when she has no clue who they are!

My comment about finding a new profession wasn't because I don't like your opinion. It wasn't directed at anyone in particular. There is just a lot of parent bashing that happens here so it makes me wonder if you (meaning the person complaining/hating/etc on parents) is truly happy doing daycare. And FWIW...there are 3 Bachelor's and 2 Master's degrees behind this user name.

Bottom line is this. If there weren't parents "dumping" their kids at daycare...we'd all be out of a job.

I happen to L-O-V-E my job, my DCK, my DC families. Love it. I look forward to each and every day with them. You won't find me on here complaining about them on an open forum especially where they can come read it themselves!!

[professionalmom]

Did you know that marriages where parents focus only on the children for the childhood years are 3x's as likly to divorice than those who dont take the time to focus on one another during this time. Yes there is data that proves this.

Citations to research, studies, etc. Everything I see says that couple do need to focus on their marriage, but it does not say to run off on week-long, child-free vacations. And every couple needs to spend time focusing on their marriage - that would be called common sense. But you can do that without a WEEK away from your children who are under 5 years of age. Put them to bed at 8pm and spend a couple hours with your spouse each night (and I'm not just talking physical stuff - talk to them, work together on a project, watch a movie, hold hands - anything!)

Also someone pointed out their priorites order (god parenting, marriage) and how proud they were about having their children spend very little time outside of them...Im sorry but biblically thats not what the bible teaches. The bible actually states that we should put God first, Marriage Second and third our children.

You are right that the marriage is to be second, but NOT at the sake of the children. Basically, you need to focus on all three. And they are very intertwined. And I highly doubt "marriage second and third our children" means dump the kids somewhere for a week-long vacation to re-connect with a spouse that you've been ignoring all year. That's where the "put the kids to bed at 8pm" part comes in. Then devote some time each day to your spouse and to God. But now we're using God and religion as excuses to spend less time with our children (again, only talking about the parents who are already away from their babies, toddlers, and preschoolers for 50+ hours a week). ::