Is it Common For Parents to Vacation Without Children?

[nannyde]

I have a MOm who is off every thursday, and half of those thursdays her son is here with me while she does her grocery shopping, goes to the doctor, gets her hair done, etc. ALL stuff that her kid would not like having to be dragged along for. she also picks up early on thursdays, as soon as she's done with her "stuff"

Crystal

If a parent who is off every Thursday brings her kid every other Thursday that is two days a month where she is brining the kid to day care when she isn't working.

Two days a month equals 24 days a year. 24 days a year is equal to a full calander working month. She is sending him to day care for a month a year when she isn't working.

THIS is what I'm talking about. I don't care if she picks up early or not. That is a HUGE amount of time.

You don't get it. You really don't.

I would NEVER have my kid in day care for 24 days a year when I wasn't working. I think that's shameful. I don't care what she has to do... what she wants to do.. how you guys all think she's a better parent if she can "get things done that the kid wouldn't like to tag along to". Sorry but if I had that amount of time off I would have less things to do. I'd make sure I figured out a way to take my kid with me on my "errands" and have him LOVE it.

And if she is off every Thursday when is she working? Does she work on the weekends? Does she do long days four days a week. PLEASE tell me she is just a part time employee.

I have NEVER been on a trip without my kid in his entire ten years. I have taken him all over the world MANY times WITH me. I wouldn't dream of spending precious family time away from him. He's my baby and I want him to have the life experience of travel. I want him to just have "ME" without me having to do anything but HIM.

We are fortunate enough to afford extensive travel. Even during times when we couldn't afford to I still spent the entire vacation with my baby. Spending days off and vacation time with your kids is about doing the day to day... one after another... where they have a completely different life. It's the bonding that comes with consequtive uninterupted time with their parents.

I get 18 days off a year plus the weekends. I spend every day with my son. He's mine. He's my baby. I love him more than anything in the world and there is NOTHING more important to me then spending the precious little time I have off with my kid.

We need to stop making excuses about parents shunning their kids. We need to promote that they need TIME with their parents. It's okay if they run errands. It's okay if they go to the Doctor. It's okay if they go to the Lawyer. It's okay for them to be out of their routine. It's okay for them to not be with their "friends".

I've never met a full time day care kid who would rather be in day care than be with their parents even if it means grocery shopping, getting nails done, going to the Dr. etc. Kids want to be WITH their parents. It's providers like you and parents like her that are making society think this is okay and "really" for the best interest of the kid.

You are making it sounds like it somehow funnels down to being better for the kid and it's not.

[Jenjo]

I have really good parents who keep their children home when they don't go to work usually. I do have one single dad that does not. It makes me sad because I know how much those kids want to be with their dad, mom is a mess and unable to really take care of them. They adore their dad! It is just sad.
None of my parents take week long vacations with their families at least not this year.

[professionalmom]

I didn't start the insinuations that someone here is a liar, etc. My question was simply responded to with accusations that I am a liar.

I did not accuse you of being a liar. I did make a comment about liars, but that was an example of PROJECTION. I guess another example could be someone who is a pushover, yet chastises others for being pushovers. They often do not see themselves as a pushover and find it appalling that others "let" themselves get taken advantage of, all the while they are being a doormat themselves. So if you thought I was accusing you of lying, I was not. If you didn't think that, then I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

[professionalmom]

And, I asked a question.....a quite simple one that has yet to be answered: If as a provider, you are so DISGUSTED with your dcf parenting practices, WHY do you continue to care for their children? In Judy's words "NEXT!"

Why? Because we CARE about the children. And we are hoping that eventually the parent will "get it" when we keep explaining, "little Johnny missed you so much today. I'll bet he's really looking forward to having some mommy time this weekend." Hint hint.

After all, when the DCK has a parent that is spending less than 20-30 WAKING hours with the kid each week, someone needs to be a loving constant in the child's life. If the parent refuses to be that person, I guess it falls to us. And, it's not that I ever minded HAVING the kid(s) while mom was off vacationing or getting pampered or whatever, I didn't. I loved each and every one of my DCKs. I just felt SO sorry for them because they had parents (usually moms) that just did not see the pain they were causing their child. It's called empathy. And I consider myself a child advocate, because someone needs to speak for these little helpless children whose needs are being ignored.

[judytrickett]

I did not accuse you of being a liar. I did make a comment about liars, but that was an example of PROJECTION. I guess another example could be someone who is a pushover, yet chastises others for being pushovers. They often do not see themselves as a pushover and find it appalling that others "let" themselves get taken advantage of, all the while they are being a doormat themselves. So if you thought I was accusing you of lying, I was not. If you didn't think that, then I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

She is referring to what I said:

I'm just gonna say it...I really do NOT believe you. I don't believe that you really have 100% of your parents who are so freaking great that they never would ever even think of spending a day off let alone a week without their kids. I don't believe it.

I think YOU believe it. I think YOU think they are not doing this. But I think they have you fooled. They ARE taking time off - they are just lying about it either openly or by omission. Either that or you are NOT charging them for days their child does not attend. Because THEN they have incentive for staying home with them - money savings!

But, alas, taken out of context because it was not really READ. What I said was that I think Crystal believes that her parents are working when they say they are but experience tells me they really aren't. My point is that the parents are not being open and therefore lying by omission to Crystal and she, therefore, assumes then to always be at work when their kids are in care.

That's why I say it's "not true" - as in not FACTUAL that the parents are actually at work when they say they are!

But I also DID imply that I think she is not being very realistic. And, as later admitted and pointed out by Nannyde, Crystal DOES indeed have parents who drop their kids into care when they are NOT working. One family is doing this 24 days a year according to Nannyde's math.

So, yeah, take it as you will.

[judytrickett]

Why? Because we CARE about the children. And we are hoping that eventually the parent will "get it" when we keep explaining, "little Johnny missed you so much today. I'll bet he's really looking forward to having some mommy time this weekend." Hint hint.

After all, when the DCK has a parent that is spending less than 20-30 WAKING hours with the kid each week, someone needs to be a loving constant in the child's life. If the parent refuses to be that person, I guess it falls to us. And, it's not that I ever minded HAVING the kid(s) while mom was off vacationing or getting pampered or whatever, I didn't. I loved each and every one of my DCKs. I just felt SO sorry for them because they had parents (usually moms) that just did not see the pain they were causing their child. It's called empathy. And I consider myself a child advocate, because someone needs to speak for these little helpless children whose needs are being ignored.

Yeah, that above.

AND, when I was growing up I WAS that kid whose parents ligagged off to be away from me and my sister every freaking second they got. And I can tell you first hand that KIDS KNOW!

So, yeah, I judge. I judge because I KNOW kids deserve better. I KNOW it has a lasting impact on you your ENTIRE life to understand that you were not a real, genuine priority to your parents.

I advocate FOR children. Sure, maybe it comes off as judgemental, bitchy and nasty but so be it. It's the truth.

I SEE it in the kids whose parents are doing this. And I GET IT! And sure, I can ship them off but there will always be another 100 parents standing in line just like the ones that left with the same lack of priorities.

I am seeing LESS and LESS parents who want to spend time with their kids. It's a fact. It's increasing in "normalcy". And Yes, it's WRONG because it has lifetime ramifications for that child who sat ALL day for the 50th hour that week in the care of a daycare provider because mommy or daddy needed "ME" time for the 20th time that year.

What would you rather we do? Look the other way? Pretend it's not happening? Say nothing?

Yeah...not me...I don't work that way.

I will go back to the quote Professionalmom cited (which is really weird as it is my favourite ALL time quote that I often cite myself)....

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

But I will add to that quote that what is WORSE is to make excuse for those who are doing the wrong doing.

[professionalmom]

As long as I get my money and am doing MY job then it's none of my business.

Wow. I love this. So if I'm getting paid, and doing my job, that's where it ends? Well, I was under the impression that I'm a mandated reporter and I take that to mean that what happens to these children outside my home IS my business. So it's not like we punch a time clock and when we're off, we're off. And when a parent is constantly looking for excuses to avoid being with their kids (again, NOT the occasional date night, overnight at grandma's and such) ALL the time, EVERY week, then I do think they are pushing the limit. Although it is not reportable as neglect, it is questionable and would raise red flags in my book, causing me to watch that child a little more closely for signs of neglect or abuse.

Just because someone PAYS me, does not mean I will overlook the damage and pain they are causing.

I just wonder how far this "it's none of my business" goes in your book (and in the books of the others who have used the same logic). At what point do you think it BECOMES your business? You are acting as a surrogate parent to these children. They need you to speak for them when they are hurt or in pain, whether it's physical, sexual, neglect, or emotional.

You may think I am over reaching here, but it is scary when daycare providers (a.k.a. mandated reporters) say, "As long as I get my money and am doing MY job then it's none of my business." Don't you care about the emotional and psychological well-being of these children, as well as their physical and sexually well-being? Don't you care about how EXTRA, UNNECESSARY time away from the parents is damaging these children? And you think it's "none of your business"? I don't get it. And I don't think I could ever be that clinical about the care of children.

[emosks]

Wow. I love this. So if I'm getting paid, and doing my job, that's where it ends? Well, I was under the impression that I'm a mandated reporter and I take that to mean that what happens to these children outside my home IS my business. So it's not like we punch a time clock and when we're off, we're off. And when a parent is constantly looking for excuses to avoid being with their kids (again, NOT the occasional date night, overnight at grandma's and such) ALL the time, EVERY week, then I do think they are pushing the limit. Although it is not reportable as neglect, it is questionable and would raise red flags in my book, causing me to watch that child a little more closely for signs of neglect or abuse.

Just because someone PAYS me, does not mean I will overlook the damage and pain they are causing.

I just wonder how far this "it's none of my business" goes in your book (and in the books of the others who have used the same logic). At what point do you think it BECOMES your business? You are acting as a surrogate parent to these children. They need you to speak for them when they are hurt or in pain, whether it's physical, sexual, neglect, or emotional.

You may think I am over reaching here, but it is scary when daycare providers (a.k.a. mandated reporters) say, "As long as I get my money and am doing MY job then it's none of my business." Don't you care about the emotional and psychological well-being of these children, as well as their physical and sexually well-being? Don't you care about how EXTRA, UNNECESSARY time away from the parents is damaging these children? And you think it's "none of your business"? I don't get it. And I don't think I could ever be that clinical about the care of children.

Have you been reading my posts? The families that we have currently enrolled DO NOT DUMP THEIR KIDS when they are off of work! I don't care what Judy says that they are telling me lies about where they are. SHE DOES NOT KNOW MY FRIENDS! Plain and simple. I'm mandated to report issues of sexual abuse, physical abuse and such. If a parent wants to get away or get their freaking hair cut when their child is in my care I'm supposed to report this? Really? If I called my licensing consultant to tell her that one of my DCGs parents went to Mexico without her...she'd laugh at me. Seriously...c'mon. Really? I really don't know how you guys think that you just know so much about MY families.

[emosks]

Ah hah! See? That is the difference. YOU don't care if they take the day off and leave their kids in care. So, they DO do it!

Well, I DO care! I care, not for me, but for those kids. Yes, I care. Gasp.....

Oh and Crystal....yes, I DO have parents who actually have a combined 14 weeks off a year whose children spent FOUR years in my care and NEVER once had a day off with their parents. Really and truly. Sad, sad, sad.

Well, I'm going off for my long weekend now. I can't be bothered to bang my head against the wall anymore "talking" to those who have sunshine and rainbows shooting out their asses without a shred of reality.

Good God!

Of course, your fragile egos will assume you "won". Whatever.

In the end it's the kids that lose because not enough people care to CARE about their problem - being dumped in daycare when it is not necessary. Congratulations - you just added to the problem.

WRONG AGAIN! Who the heck are you? Do you live in my house? Do you attend my daycare? Didn't think so. Enough said.

Keep banging your head on that wall sweetie!! And I think you are referring to yourself.

Also, no need to start swearing here. Just shows who you really are.

[emosks]

I know that this was directed at Judy, but I do have to say Judy and I are so alike, we could be sisters. So, I certainly would NOT take a day off and leave my child(ren) in daycare. I could never deal with the guilt of it. Actually, approximately 20 years ago a babysitter sexually abused a 3 year old family member of mine. Since then, NO ONE other than family (and the church nursery during church services) is EVER allowed to watch any child in my family. So, I can honestly and unequivocally say that NO, I would not leave my child in daycare for ANY time that was not absolutely necessary. Heck, I wouldn't even leave her (or them) in the care of someone other than daddy unless it was absolutely necessary. But I guess it's very hard to believe that there are people that take parenting THAT seriously these days.

As for doing things outside work with children in tow. There are only a few things I would not do with DD in tow (unless I absolutely had no one to take her) - go to court or go to the hospital. That's the only 2 places I can think of right now. Every other place is a possible child tag-along, even the fancy restraunt DH and I like to go to for our "date" nights. She's been there everytime we have been there since she was born. She always goes on errands with me unless she stays with dad. She spends approximately 1-3 hours a MONTH away from mom AND dad, in the care of some other family member. But I guess it really is hard to believe that people like Judy and I actually exist in 2010. Call me old-fashioned and I will blush from the compliment! At least I know my grandma would be proud of me as a mother, if she were still alive.

As for pampering, I get that in too - when dad or grandma can babysit. And it's maybe 3 times a year. So, I guess my philosophy is God first, parenting second, marriage third, pampering and me time fourth. It's perfectly alright with me if you or anyone else has a different philosophy. I don't think you're a terrible person if you do. Different philosophies are what make us unique.

Sorry to hear about what happened to your family member...but molestation occurs within families too you know.

[jen]

Now, that's sad. 8 weeks and no time with their kids? Why would you not say something to them? Like, "you're going on vacation AGAIN? Gee, I bet Johnny would LOVE a day or two at the beach." 8 weeks is alot of paid time off, and I find it hard to believe that ANY parent would not spend one day out of 8 weeks with their children on family outings.

A provider down the street from me has a teacher's child in care...Mom's at home all summer long...guess where the kids are???

Yup, 50+ hours a week in care.

[professionalmom]

Have you been reading my posts? The families that we have currently enrolled DO NOT DUMP THEIR KIDS when they are off of work! I don't care what Judy says that they are telling me lies about where they are. SHE DOES NOT KNOW MY FRIENDS! Plain and simple. I'm mandated to report issues of sexual abuse, physical abuse and such. If a parent wants to get away or get their freaking hair cut when their child is in my care I'm supposed to report this? Really? If I called my licensing consultant to tell her that one of my DCGs parents went to Mexico without her...she'd laugh at me. Seriously...c'mon. Really? I really don't know how you guys think that you just know so much about MY families.

First, you are right that she does not know your particular DC families. However, there are so many parents out there that are dumping their kids in daycare for every moment that the parent is out of the house, not just for work, school, court, etc., but for beauty appointments, grocery shopping, vacations, bar-hopping, lunches with friends, cleaning their houses on their "mental health" day, etc. It is very odd that any provider would not have at least one parent like this or at least HAD a parent like this.

As for the BOLDED part above, WHEN DID I SAY ANYTHING ABOUT REPORTING THIS TYPE OF STUFF!?!?! If you would have read my post CORRECTLY, you would have seen that it said that THIS type of situation does NOT rise to the level of neglect. I was pointing out that as mandated reporters, it IS our job to CARE about these children. Again, we are NOT talking about an occasional hair appointment. We are talking about parents who have their kids in daycare 50+ hours a week, then dump them with family on the weekends so they can run errands, get groceries, date, bar-hop, whatever. Then they turn around and take "mental health" days and sick days while bringing their kids to daycare. Then they turn around and fly to some far-away destination, leaving their child(ren) with family for a week just because the parent(s) need a "break". A break from what? Their kids? How can you need a break from something you're never around?

As mandated reporters, it IS our job to care. Even if it does NOT rise to the level of "legal" neglect. But your comment insinuated that as long as they pay you, you will keep your eyes and ears shut and your mouth zipped. It sounded a little like "it doesn't matter what they do as long as I get my money." I AM NOT quoting you, I said it SOUNDED LIKE. So do NOT take my words and twist them like you have already tried to do. Again, even though it does NOT rise to a reportable offense, it is still neglect in my book, whether you agree with it or not. And the research backs up the FACT that the more hours a child is away from his/her parents, the worse the damage and long-term consequences are. But if you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend that it's "none of your business" and "not your problem", go right ahead.

Frankly, I don't get why this is even an issue. We are talking about young children. They need their parents during the formative years. Period. The research has been done to death on it and it is conclusive. Period. End of story. I just don't get how anyone can defend, let alone support, parents WANTING to be away from their children as much as they can possibly get away or stay away.

But I guess you will continue to misquote me, twist my words around and, and defend your position until your dying breath. So I guess to end this "argument" I should just concede to YOUR position and agree that parents should be able to do whatever their little hearts desire, no matter what effect it has on their children, as long as I get my money and it doesn't cross that line of neglect or abuse. To heck with the children! Let's just sacrifice the children's NEEDS for the sake of the parents' COMFORT, DESIRES, and WANTS! After all, they matter so much more than the children.

[QualiTcare]

i haven't read all of the posts, but for the record - i don't give a DAMN what anyone thinks about me. my children both went to daycare when they were six weeks old and i don't make excuses nor apologize for it. i did NOT want to stay at home 24/7 and if you think being a working mom by choice = bad mom then you are stupid.

other than being in daycare while i was working, my kids have spent FOUR days away from me and my husband their entire life. once again, if you think that's selfish then you are stupid.

i'm on vacation RIGHT NOW at the beach. my husband and kids are asleep cus we spent 12 hours straight at the beach and the pool - even had meals delivered to us there.

would my kids make a sighing sound if they knew he and i were taking a weekend trip alone somewhere? PROBABLY! that doesn't mean they are poor little neglected kids. it means they are KIDS and that's what kids do.

as i said before, what's different about parents that have "date nights" once a week or once a month and parents who DON'T have date nights but then take a vacation?

i went on a vacation with my daughter when she was 4 for a week and left my husband and son behind. was i being a bad mom/wife to my son and husband - or a good mom to my daughter?

you're damned if you do and damned if you don't so it doesn't matter. if you're happy having your kids attached to your hip 24/7/365 then good for you. i'm sure you don't like when people say your kids are "sheltered" and unable to adjust in the real world. btw, i've said it before - kids who have never been away from their parents or gone to preschool are the WORST when they start school. you're not doing them any favors.

my goal for my children is for them to be INDEPENDENT adults and i really don't think spending a week away from them every 5 years or so is a bad thing IF that's your goal. when i took my 4 day trip, my kids were happy to talk to me on the phone and were asking if i was having fun! they didn't care because we have a SECURE relationship and they knew i was coming back. it's really NOT that big of a deal.

now, if someone goes to the beach every year and their kids have never ever been - then i would think that was sad. my kids can't even pick out a toy at the store cus they have them all and they EXPECT to go on vacation - so i don't see how it's "selfish" to take a few days away from them. some of you claim you're only talking about ppl who leave their kids in daycare while they go, but it's obvious as the conversation progressed that you believe kids should be stuck up your ass 365 days a year for 18 years. good luck with having independent, self sufficient adults!

[nannyde]

FYI...one of the reasons why I do not have families like what has been mentioned, is becasue I simply refuse to enroll a family when it is clearly obvious that a parent is so self-involved that they will "neglect" their children so that can have or do whatever they want. I actually sent a parent away during an interview one time and told her I am sorry but I will not be able to work with you. It was awkward, but I KNOW I avoided alot of drama by doing it.

I interview potential clients, just as they interview me. I have become a very good judge of character over the years and I simply will not enroll a family who does not have close to the same philosophy of care as I do. Not exactly the same, because I am willing to see things from others perespectives, but pretty close or the daycare relationship would be stressful and I am not going to add stress to my day.

Crystal here's the harm you are doing: You are making it sound like there is a way to interview this out of parents. There's some formula you use to be able to tell whether or not the parent has the same "philosophy of care". You attribute your ability to weed these guys out with your "judge of character".

You wrote this not so long ago: My "study" was conducted in my own program. I know the children who have behavioral issues in my program, so I began observing more closely. Not only did I observe them in my program, and I did not only observe them. I observed their parents. I started noticing a trend...the children with behavior issues are the ones whose Mom always pulls up talking on the cell phone, and pulls out while talking on the cell phone. They're the children whose Mom's and Dad's take personal days off and don't spend one extra minute of that time off with their children. They're the children whose parents have the most electronic gadgets in the home and the ones whose parents barely have two words to say to them at pick up time, who never ask me about how their child's day was but wanna gossip about work while brushing their child off of their pantleg. They're the children whose parents dread hearing about their child's day, because they know what I am going to say. In essence, they are the children of self-absorbed, self-important parents.

YOU wrote this. YOU enrolled those parents into care after YOUR judgement of character. You have been doing this for a very long time and this was pretty recent. Have you JUST now developed the ability to interview this out?

Then you tell us you got a Mom putting her kid in day care twice a month when she is off work so she can run errands and "get things done" that are easier to do without the kid.

YOU CAN'T INTERVIEW THIS OUT. Not even YOU have the ability to see this before it happens. You can suggest that we need to dump these parents who are like this but you keep them. You just tell yourself it's okay for them to do it because everybody needs a little time now and then. 24 days a year of me time isn't a little time. It's nearly five working weeks of time a year when the kid is away from their parents. It's WORSE than a parent taking a week of vacation without their kids. It's five times worse.

I think you have a lot to offer but I also think you can do a lot of harm. Experienced providers can tell when you are stating something that doesn't make sense but inexperienced providers will get the idea that there really IS a way to avoid this by "judgement" or "interviewing it out" or "talking to them about philosophy" and being able to tell from their words on philosophy whether or not they are the ones to keep their kid in day care when they don't really need it just so they can have "me" time.

You are implying that once they are in your care that the parents ... knowing your "philosophy" are going to be right upfront with you and tell you the days they are not working.

The truth is that if you are going to build a business on clients who only used day care when they really needed it for work or medical emergencies and kept their kid with them the vast MAJORITY of their time off... told you when they were off of work for a me day but still bringing the kid... and paid their slot regardless of attendance... you would be out of business pretty darn quick. You would have a next to impossible time in this generation of parents finding an entire group of parents who did this thru the years of caring for their kids.

This is an open forum and I know there is a certain "advertising" element in this when posters make it easy for the reader to know who they are IRL. It feels like to me you are more towards advertising you and your business here where the majority of us are just using it for support and guidance.

Buyer beware using advertising as guidance.

[melskids]

doesnt matter who's side i agree with, fact is, if parents didnt bring their kids to daycare, i would be out of a job.

thats all i got to say about that....