Soiled Underwear in Day Care Centers

[QualiTcare]

if i was in it for the money, i could've picked any other field to major in that would've taken the same amount of time.

if i was concerned about money, i would've chosen a much more profitable business (like nursing or accounting) all of which take four years.

i went to school, worked in a "chain daycare" and had 2 small children the whole time i went to college. not to mention, i sent my children to daycare in the meantime. i sacrificed a lot to get the degree i CHOSE - which i chose for alot of reasons, money obviously not being one of them.

that being said, i ALSO didn't work, go to school, and take time away from my own children for four years so that i could provide the same quality of care/make the same money as i could have by simply using my high school diploma. if i kept more children for less money - why would i have wasted all those years in college? people DO go to college to become educated and to be the best in the field - they ALSO go to college in order to be more financially stable.

going to college has given me more options. i can be a teacher, but i can also care for children and charge more (if you consider $5 more outrageous) to parents who value the education i have.

going to college DOES have benefits - if it didn't - then nobody would go. i make no apologies for charging a whopping five dollars more per day (or whatever the difference is) considering the work i put in and the knowledge i gained as a result.

[QualiTcare]

Well, thank God it ISN'T up to you. Just because the first 5 years are important does not mean that a degree is needed to bring a child through with flying colors. Parents, other family members, and daycare providers without degrees do this every day up to age 5 and beyond.

more like, "hopefully to god" people will realize this as time goes on. we all have opinions, but statistics don't lie.

once again, nobody would be satisfied with high school graduates educating their children (K-12) even though statistics show that the MOST important time is from birth up until Kindergarten.

if K-12 teachers have to be educated/licensed to be in the classroom, why are "teachers" who care for young children exempt, even though it has been proven that these years are the most important?

it's a fault of society - not my judgement. if society wasn't at fault for underestimating the importance of early childhood, then daycare workers would be getting paid more than minimum wage. i think EVERYONE agrees that daycare workers don't get paid enough, but of course with higher wages comes higher standards.

do i think daycare providers deserve more money? YES! i also believe more money is synomynous with higher qualifications. daycare providers won't ever make the money they deserve until the standards are raised. if you aren't for higher standards, then you shouldn't be for more money either.

[Daycare Mommy]

more like, "hopefully to god" people will realize this as time goes on. we all have opinions, but statistics don't lie.

once again, nobody would be satisfied with high school graduates educating their children (K-12) even though statistics show that the MOST important time is from birth up until Kindergarten.

if K-12 teachers have to be educated/licensed to be in the classroom, why are "teachers" who care for young children exempt, even though it has been proven that these years are the most important?

it's a fault of society - not my judgement. if society wasn't at fault for underestimating the importance of early childhood, then daycare workers would be getting paid more than minimum wage. i think EVERYONE agrees that daycare workers don't get paid enough, but of course with higher wages comes higher standards.

do i think daycare providers deserve more money? YES! i also believe more money is synomynous with higher qualifications. daycare providers won't ever make the money they deserve until the standards are raised. if you aren't for higher standards, then you shouldn't be for more money either.

No. It's Thank God. (<-with a capital G btw) And high school graduates ARE educating young people successfully, Kindergarten and beyond. It's called homeschool.

[QualiTcare]

No. It's Thank God. (<-with a capital G btw) And high school graduates ARE educating young people successfully, Kindergarten and beyond. It's called homeschool.

i'll leave religion out of it, but the matter of homeschool and successful education is a highly debatable matter in itself.

most people don't consider high school graduates to be qualified to teach children, teens, or young adults. in fact, most people don't consider high school graduates to be qualified to do much of anything other than serve food, collect garbage, and...oh yeah...take care of young children.

sorry, but i find the fact that child care providers get paid the same as fast food employees/have the same minimum qualifications (GED, in fact) to be downright pathetic - i'm sorry if you disagree.

[Michael]

We homeschool our children and we both have a high school education. Our son started college at 14. Many of our Founding Fathers and Presidents were likewise homeschooled. I am not sure where you are going with this QualiTcare. It sounds like you are just pontificating. Quality care comes in all shapes and sizes and works just fine. Most states licensing standards require a GED or high school equivalent education. You are on the opposite side of the majority of our state's guidelines.

Homeschooled:
George Washington
John Quincy Adams
James Madison
Zachary Taylor
Millard Fillmore
James Buchanan
Abraham Lincoln
Andrew Johnson
Theodore Roosevelt
Woodrow Wilson
Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Benjamin Franklin
Alexander Hamilton
Patrick Henry
George Mason

I think their parents also would disagree with your statement. You are starting to sound elitist.

[QualiTcare]

michael,

my point is that education is important in our society - whether it's right or not. do i think i could've been an effective teacher without spending four years in college? of course i do. does my sister who spent most of her life doing drugs think she's a good mother? of course she does.

education is there to weed out the qualified from the not so qualified. are there people who would make good lawyers without going to law school? of course there are. but - what would happen if we let everyone who thought they were good at something start practicing in the field they feel qualified for?

maybe i'm not being clear, because i am definitely not "elite." in fact, i've been a food service worker and a single mother most of my life (including the time i went to college).

i find caring for children to be one of the most important jobs on the planet. so, why are childcare workers paid so little? well, it's because society doesn't value the work they do. why don't they value the work they do? because no education is required to do it. why is no education required to do it when education is required to be a teacher? the list goes on.

child care workers deserve more credit and more pay - however, they won't get it unless we start demanding that the standards be raised. when i was working in a daycare center, i worked alongside 18 year old girls with a GED who had never cared for a child a day in her life. that is equivelant to a fast food worker - and the pay is comparable - that's all i'm saying. i find it absurd that someone who puts fries in a bag has the same training as someone who raises my (our your) children. i think the pay should be higher, but naturally, with higher pay comes higher standards - regardless the field.

We homeschool our children and we both have a high school education. Our son started college at 14. Many of our Founding Fathers and Presidents were likewise homeschooled. I am not sure where you are going with this QualiTcare. It sounds like you are just pontificating. Quality care comes in all shapes and sizes and works just fine. Most states licensing standards require a GED or high school equivalent education. You are on the opposite side of the majority of our state's guidelines.

Homeschooled:
George Washington
John Quincy Adams
James Madison
Zachary Taylor
Millard Fillmore
James Buchanan
Abraham Lincoln
Andrew Johnson
Theodore Roosevelt
Woodrow Wilson
Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Benjamin Franklin
Alexander Hamilton
Patrick Henry
George Mason

I think their parents also would disagree with your statement. You are starting to sound elitist.

[QualiTcare]

i'll leave religion out of it, but the matter of homeschool and successful education is a highly debatable matter in itself.

most people don't consider high school graduates to be qualified to teach children, teens, or young adults. in fact, most people don't consider high school graduates to be qualified to do much of anything other than serve food, collect garbage, and...oh yeah...take care of young children.

sorry, but i find the fact that child care providers get paid the same as fast food employees/have the same minimum qualifications (GED, in fact) to be downright pathetic - i'm sorry if you disagree.

furthermore, michael, by that comment to which i referred to "most people" i was referring to exactly that:

MOST people send their children to public and/or private schools (where the teachers have a college degree). MOST - if not ALL - people who go to college have professors with a college degree (whether they were homeschooled or not).

most educators are college graduates - even homeschooled children usually end up going to college where they are taught by college graduates.

why? well, that's a matter of opinion, apparently. the point is - education is valued in our society. you will not find a college professor who has only a high school diploma. it has nothing to do with my opinion - it's a fact.

[QualiTcare]

also, most of our forefathers and presidents you mentioned were indeed homeschooled because that was a way of life back then - some of the presidents you mentioned had very little education at all.

does that mean they weren't great people or good at what they did? absolutely not. the fact of the matter is, times have changed. our society values education. you couldn't find a president, a lawyer, or a teacher today that wasn't required to have a college education. back then, teachers were often teenagers. again, times have changed.

i think childcare workers are equally as important as the above mentioned - so why are the standards lower? that's my point.

[Vesta]

we'll have to agree to disagree, but in my opinion, you simply supported my point.

the educated providers who don't charge more than $30 a day are supported by state funds and large numbers of children - from what you said.

so, i don't find anything outlandish about an educated person with an "unheard of rate" along with an "unheard of ratio" charging $35 per day.

if it were up to me, considering that the first five years of a child's life are the most important - EVERYONE caring for children from birth - age 5 would have to be educated. afterall, you have to be educated to teach children in kindergarten and beyond (age 5 and UP) so why the standards are so low for the most important part of a child's life makes no sense to me, but that's just MY opinion. if kindergarten or 10th grade teachers simply needed a HS diploma - people would be up in arms, but for childcare, it's different - regardless of the FACTS that the first years of a child's life are the most important.

i think of it this way - i would pay $5 extra (probably a LOT more) for a licensed dentist or doctor who is educated in the field to perform work on me vs. someone who graduated high school, but claims to love dentistry or medicine.

why would it be any different for the person caring for/educating your child? i would pay $5 more for a licensed professional to care for my child vs. a high school graduate who can give me their word, but i guess that's a crazy way of thinking. consider me (and at least four other people in town) officially nuts.

ARGHHHHH
MY point:
IN THE PLACE THAT I LIVE.
No one here. HERE. Charges over $30 a day. Because the LOCAL ECONOMY CANNOT support it.
You're throwing around $175 because of your degree, but even if you have a degree HERE (not where you live) you are not going to be compensated that amount because very few, very, very, few families ****HERE***** CAN AFFORD IT. I could charge $175 week but I would have no customers. $200 a month more than the center down the road (50x4) makes a big difference HERE.
The center that's a status symbol and charges the most money and has the really crappy ratios is actually run by someone who does not have a degree.
The ones with the formally educated directors are accredited and have great ratios. They don't charge a lot and are propped up by the state because the people they serve, my community, cannot afford their rates. Which aren't excessive, but when you make $10 an hour.....
The $5 comment was in regards to someone else's post about tacking on extra fees for extra perks parents may want.
In Illinois DCFS mandates that lead teachers have at least 60 hours of college, but they don't mandate that providers be compensated for their education. The standards aren't low, but the pay is.
It is a crappy cycle, but it's the cycle we are in.
I wonder if I was this idealistic when I first graduated?

[jen]

OK...I DO have a degree, a BA in Community Psychology with an emphasis on children and families and I gotta say that you think WAY, WAY too much of the importance of your degree as it relates to daycare.

I charge what the market in my area will support with the services that I offer. We bring in a Spanish/Music teacher twice per month, ECFE once per month, and Trave-tots twice per month. I also only serve whole foods, nothing processed, organic when possible. People pay for that, not my degree.

LOTS of other providers in my area offer similar ammenities and charge about the same as I do...with or without a degree.

You are sounding as though you think you are a better provider because of your degree. We ALL know that some educated teachers, providers, etc. shouldn't spend 15 minutes with a child much less all day and there are those who didn't even graduate from High School were BORN to do this.

[mac60]

ok...i do have a degree, a ba in community psychology with an emphasis on children and families and i gotta say that you think way, way too much of the importance of your degree as it relates to daycare.

I charge what the market in my area will support with the services that i offer. We bring in a spanish/music teacher twice per month, ecfe once per month, and trave-tots twice per month. I also only serve whole foods, nothing processed, organic when possible. People pay for that, not my degree.

Lots of other providers in my area offer similar ammenities and charge about the same as i do...with or without a degree.

You are sounding as though you think you are a better provider because of your degree. We all know that some educated teachers, providers, etc. Shouldn't spend 15 minutes with a child much less all day and there are those who didn't even graduate from high school were born to do this.

amen to this. Thank you.

[momofsix]

Wow, do we go off on tangents or what?!?!
I also have a degree--Psychogy w/ an Early Childhood emphasis and a minor in Sociology. I can do charge more b/c of my degree, and I do have one family that I DO take for free--yes I need to pay my bills, but I also have a heart and am willing to work with those who really need help too, because I love my job and I love the kids! I think what a parent pays for child care really has nothing at all to do with this discussion. It's more just a decision that each provider makes according to his/her level of comfort and state regs.
As for the first 5 years being most important, that is true. And a parent is responsible to make sure that thier children are not in front of the TV all day and are getting the care they deserve. The first five years are more about love, trust and bonding then "learning". Studies have shown that when kids do a "headstart" type program, they are ahead of their peers at first, but it soon evens out. And someone with a degree, that doesn't LOVE children could very well do more damage to a child than someone with NO education that loves them. I have a sister-in-law with special needs that is great with kids. She loves on them all the time, plays games like tag that would tire the rest of us out, reads them books and sings to them. She could never run her own day-care, but she is still a wonderful employee, and should NEVER be told she can't do what she loves because she can't get a degree. Children love her to bits!
Also, I homeschooled our 6 daughters for 9 years, and my degree didn't make a bit of difference in the education they recieved. If I didn't know something, I learned it along with them. They are growing into very successful adults and I am very proud of them.
I know this is kind of rambling--sorry

[Daycare Mommy]

Great posts Jen and Momofsix! And thank you for sharing about your sister-in-law, Momofsix. I did some volunteer work with special needs kids in the past and I just LOVE hearing stories like this. Beautiful.

[Former Teacher]

hmm just wondering..how did we get from dirty underwear..to this? ::

[QualiTcare]

ARGHHHHH
MY point:
IN THE PLACE THAT I LIVE.
No one here. HERE. Charges over $30 a day. Because the LOCAL ECONOMY CANNOT support it.
You're throwing around $175 because of your degree, but even if you have a degree HERE (not where you live) you are not going to be compensated that amount because very few, very, very, few families ****HERE***** CAN AFFORD IT. I could charge $175 week but I would have no customers. $200 a month more than the center down the road (50x4) makes a big difference HERE.
The center that's a status symbol and charges the most money and has the really crappy ratios is actually run by someone who does not have a degree.
The ones with the formally educated directors are accredited and have great ratios. They don't charge a lot and are propped up by the state because the people they serve, my community, cannot afford their rates. Which aren't excessive, but when you make $10 an hour.....
The $5 comment was in regards to someone else's post about tacking on extra fees for extra perks parents may want.
In Illinois DCFS mandates that lead teachers have at least 60 hours of college, but they don't mandate that providers be compensated for their education. The standards aren't low, but the pay is.
It is a crappy cycle, but it's the cycle we are in.
I wonder if I was this idealistic when I first graduated?

vesta - i understand where you are coming from. i DO get your point. the economy is horrible just about everywhere you go. i live in a small town in TN - the layoffs are unreal. unemployment is sky high. it's awful.

but there are still (even in these horrible economic times) those people who have more money than they know what to do with. there is a daycare right down the street who is packed full of kids - and charges a little more than i do - and the workers are typicaly 18-25 with a high school diploma. is there anything wrong with having a hs diploma? no. are the parents who are paying that daycare more than i charge (when i DO have a degree) and a 4 child max? YES! so, charging less (even ten dollars less) when you're more "qualified" does have advantages. if there are 100 people paying $186 dollars to that overcrowded, understaffed daycare (even in our hard economic times) then it's not hard to imagine that 4 our of those 100 would be willing to pay me a little LESS for better quality care. when i first started advertising, i put $150 in my word document (sample flyer) and my husband said, "no, put $200 - you're a teacher. do u know how many people would love to have a teacher keeping their kids - especially when you're only keeping four?"

i said, "nah - $200 is too much. i'll charge a little less than the daycares around here do (the chains) and if i don't get a response THEN i'll lower the price to $150."

just an FYI - i'm not idealistic (more like realistic since it IS happening) and i didn't just graduate - i'm very much an adult with a family and home of my own.

i guess it all depends on your target market. the majority of people live on a mcdonald's budget - but there are those people who can afford to eat steak every night - regardless of the economy. i planned on advertising (which i didn't end up having to do because word of mouth prevailed) toward those people who COULD afford the steaks - and it worked. had it not worked, i would've changed my market - but it did work, and i make no apologies.