Temination Due To Transportation W/Out Permission

[Willow]

Perhaps it was an oversight and she thought you actually did check the other box?

Otherwise I can't see her not addressing the issue then, even if it was no big deal to you that she miss parts of her sons games it obviously was to her.


When you told her that you wouldn't be able to pick up early what did she say?

As far as back up goes there are other alternatives than just family. Lots of family childcares offer drop in care, as do many stay at home moms when they're looking to make a bit of extra money. If you advertise that you're looking for drop in care I'm sure you could come up with at least an option or two.

[Willow]

finding back up care for her days off was in the contract.. but shouldn't i get notice for those days???

That's a question you both should have hammered out at interview time.

In her eyes it seems she gave you notice, in your eyes she didn't. Who's right and who's wrong is all a mere matter of opinion because no clear cut definition was ever established.

[Blackcat31]

basically what i am getting from all of this is that even though she did take my son without my permission, she did nothing wrong. the permission slip was not in the actual contract(it was a separate piece of paper) therefore i still owe her the 4 weeks of care whether my son is there or not.

i am also getting the feeling that everyone is in agreement that i have nothing legally binding for her to get any type of consequence for what she did, whether it be through licensing or just the state in general.....?

Yes, since it was not part of the contract, the contract will not be void.

Licensing has said she did nothing wrong, so contacting a lawyer will more then likely get you nothing.
I'm also wondering, was there anything in the permission slip that if the provider needed to leave and you weren't there, the child would be transported? I know Daycare has that in her contract and I think some others do also.

I disagree. Just because the permission to transport was NOT part of licensing requirements, it was still part of an agreed upon contract between the provider and the parent.

Just like I state in my policies that I will not allow TV. If a parent came to my daycare and saw their child watching TV, I would consider our agreement to not be adhered to and therefore NOT what I (as the provider) agreed to provide or not provide for the child and as the parent, I would upset the provider did not provide the environment that was promised or implied to me during the interview.

This provider IMPLIED that there was or would be an agreement (a contract) between the two of them by presenting a permission slip or ASKING the parent to give permission to transport.

This parent did NOT give permission.

The provider understood and essentially AGREED to NOT transport the child and I believe the agreement was an implied contract or a personal contract between parent and provider.

A contract the provider went against.

All of us have rules/agreements in our policies that WE chose to have as rules but aren't part of our licensing requirements. Rules/policies such as not giving OTC meds or allowing late pick ups or drop offs etc. We all enforce those rules as a "law" or agreed upon CONTRACT between ourselves and our clients. I don't see why this case is any different.

Kelliot, I would absolutely contact an attorney as I believe that you DO have a right to remove your child WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE or PENALTY (having to pay the 4 weeks).

[Unregistered]

#1. i had texted her FIRST that day stating that my boss said i could not leave earlier than 4:30..4:30 is the time the baseball game started, she could have missed the first 10 minutes..
#2. an illness is quite different in my eyes as i am sure most people feel that way. EVERYTIME my son got an illness there i left work and was able to pick him up...this was not an emergency
#3.i am a SINGLE mother.. my parents are divorced and my father moved to another state, so no, i do not have back up sitters i can just call on a whim. the ONLY family i have within 300 miles of me is my mother, who mind you, works 12 hours a day and owns a business-perhaps i don't need to explain to you that she cannot just leave work when she feels like it...?
#4 i am telling my side of the story and answering the questions asked. you do not know me outside of this forum so keeping your judgement to yourself would be appreciated

You received the day before very clear instructions to pick up your child earlier... you ignored it!!! ...and now you expect us to not judge your decision but only to judge your provider's decision!!

This is her business... she decides when it is important to close the daycare... she was very clear from the beginning with you that these games were important... you lead her thinking you would cooperate at the time of the events... You “gambled” and now you're putting on “The Victim” label and trying again to get privileges by not paying the 4 weeks in the contract!!!

We all in this forum are very familiar with parents that feel entitled for special treatment and find their lives more important than the providers' lives... so it becomes very easy to recognize one and read between the lines!

You and the provider were both wrong! Accept accountability...

[Country Kids]

Can we ask Tom this question? I'm sure he would know.

Could we just ask-Is the permission slip considered a contract between provider/parent and if broken does it break the money contract?

[Unregistered]

I disagree. Just because the permission to transport was NOT part of licensing requirements, it was still part of an agreed upon contract between the provider and the parent.

Just like I state in my policies that I will not allow TV. If a parent came to my daycare and saw their child watching TV, I would consider our agreement to not be adhered to and therefore NOT what I (as the provider) agreed to provide or not provide for the child and as the parent, I would upset the provider did not provide the environment that was promised or implied to me during the interview.

This provider IMPLIED that there was or would be an agreement (a contract) between the two of them by presenting a permission slip or ASKING the parent to give permission to transport.

This parent did NOT give permission.

The provider understood and essentially AGREED to NOT transport the child and I believe the agreement was an implied contract or a personal contract between parent and provider.

A contract the provider went against.

All of us have rules/agreements in our policies that WE chose to have as rules but aren't part of our licensing requirements. Rules/policies such as not giving OTC meds or allowing late pick ups or drop offs etc. We all enforce those rules as a "law" or agreed upon CONTRACT between ourselves and our clients. I don't see why this case is any different.

Kelliot, I would absolutely contact an attorney as I believe that you DO have a right to remove your child WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE or PENALTY (having to pay the 4 weeks).

I could not agree more with Blackcat.

I'll add that even if the daycare provider had an emergency she was still NOT permitted to transport your child anywhere.

Contact a lawyer. If you can't find one I'm sure we can help you find someone to help you.

<greenplasticwateringcans....can't log in>

[Willow]

I'm curious how OP knew where to pick him up?

And what was said during that phone call to establish where on earth he was and during the pick up since I'm assuming she ultimately had to go get him from the ball field?



I'm sorry but I have to believe there is more to this story than we're hearing based on licensing saying the provider did nothing wrong. Most parents upon discovering their child was not at the daycare where they're supposed to be would more than panic. Calling the provider and the police wouldn't be out of the realm of expectation because it would be that big of a deal.

I have no idea about the legal ramifications because it could definitely turn into a big he said she said bit.....parent could say she never consented, provider could say she did because at interview time she made it clear these games wouldn't be missed and parent still choose her. Provider has proof she notified parent of the game via the text, parent has no proof she ever said she didn't want her child going.

EVEN IF the provider was in the wrong here parent is going to have a heck of a time trying to prove it, especially if in CA you don't need an actual signed form to transport.

[nanglgrl]

If you think it's worth it I would contact an attorney to see if your obligated to pay. My contract is seperate from my policies and each one of my parents have broken a policy at one time or another and so have I when I didn't charge the fee or give the consequence that was stated in my policies. I don't have my contracts right here but they are based on Tom Copelands examples and I believe it says something about failure to follow x does not void the contact.
FYI almost every parent says their child's runny nose is because of allergies. A runny nose that's been going on for years is in no way normal.
I don't think the provider should have transported without permission but I'm confused and have a hard time believing part of your story. From what you said the provider text you the night before saying you needed to pick up early. You didn't respond back that night and neither of you addressed the problem at drop off. You responded after talking to your boss that day that you couldn't pick up until 4:30 and then what? It's common sense the provider would have text you back and said that if you weren't here when she needed to leave she would either have to take your child with or call emergency contacts/CPS to pick up.
It seems there are missing pieces. Did you drop off that day knowing full well that you could not pick up in time? You being a single mother with no family in the area is no excuse. A lot of us have been or are single moms. I have a majority of single moms who work and go to school. Most are not from this town and came here to go to college so they don't have family. They still do what they need to do.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think the provider should have transported, I wouldn't have accepted you into care that day, but take responsibility for your part in this situation.

[Country Kids]

Just double checked our regulations-no we don't have to have permission to transport.

1. Have a valid license and proof of insurance
2. Adequate number of seat belt/car seats/booster seats

You have to have permission to use sunscreen but not transport children-very interesting-:confused:

[nanglgrl]

I'm curious how OP knew where to pick him up?

And what was said during that phone call to establish where on earth he was and during the pick up since I'm assuming she ultimately had to go get him from the ball field?



I'm sorry but I have to believe there is more to this story than we're hearing based on licensing saying the provider did nothing wrong. Most parents upon discovering their child was not at the daycare where they're supposed to be would more than panic. Calling the provider and the police wouldn't be out of the realm of expectation because it would be that big of a deal.

I have no idea about the legal ramifications because it could definitely turn into a big he said she said bit.....parent could say she never consented, provider could say she did because at interview time she made it clear these games wouldn't be missed and parent still choose her. Provider has proof she notified parent of the game via the text, parent has no proof she ever said she didn't want her child going.

EVEN IF the provider was in the wrong here parent is going to have a heck of a time trying to prove it, especially if in CA you don't need an actual signed form to transport.

exactly. So many inconsistencies.

[Unregistered]

Mom tried to make arrangements with the little notice she had. The provider must have known before 8pm about the game the next day. If being there was THAT important to her, then she should have given more notice. Chances are things got hectic and being human the provider forgot, but that oversight falls on her. The provider knew during the next day that the parent was only permitted to get off a half hour earlier. The provider had a choice to make. She could have her daughter fill in, but perhaps not able on shot notice either. Be late to the game, or transport a daycare child without consent.

While yes attending our family outings are important we need to be professional too. Parents do need to work and make and income too, and leaving work on little notice is not always easy to do. It was not an ideal parent/provider match, but with adequate notice of early closures it may have worked out.

[Country Kids]

We don't know how many the provider was taking so maybe the daughter couldn't stay back. That would have possibly put the provider over ration. I'm thinking it was a larger in home care if there were two of them running it.

This really needs to be a lesson-check over ALL paperwork and if something goes against providers wishes/needs the parent is more then likely not going to be a good fit.

[MarinaVanessa]

AND UNRELATED TO THIS POST I THOUGHT I WOULD MAKE IT CLEAR: i DID technically sign the permission slip for transport right below the box i checked stating i was NOT okay with her transporting him off the premises.. it's not like i just ignored it.. she knew i had seen it because i signed it..and she also saw and noted i did not allow it

And here is the kicker ... I doubt that this would even be a debate had this been known in the beginning. The parent signed the form which I now am assuming had two little boxes that gave you a choice to either agree or not agree with transportation. Probably something like
[] I agree to allow vehicle transportation
[] I do not agree with allowing vehicle transportation

If the parent marked the "I do not agree" box then the provider 100% had no business taking the child from the property in a car, but did so anyway. If the provider did not notice that the parent did not agree with vehicle transportation then it was an oversight in her part. This MIGHT be the parents way out of ending the contract without having to pay, it would be up to the discretion of the courts.

Question for the Parent: Does your contract or policies say anything about how it is the provider's responsibility to keep the child safe etc.?

If it does then this could help you in a claim against the provider to show that you are not entitled to pay for the termination period. Provider was to keep the child safe, gave clients the option to say that the do not accept vehicle transportation for their child, parent marked "I do not consent" box because parent felt that vehicle transportation is unsafe, parent was told she would be given a schedule or advance notice before vehicle transportation was required, provider did not give a schedule or sufficient notice, parent contacted provider to communicate that her work did not give her permission to leave early because no sufficient notice was given, provider took child in vehicle anyway, parent feels uncomfortable after this "safety issue" and immediately pulled her child from the daycare.

I would definitely contact legal counsel. Ask (in writing) that the provider give you copies of every form that you signed, a copy of the contract and policy handbook if she has one for you to take with you when you get legal advice.

[daycare]

We don't know how many the provider was taking so maybe the daughter couldn't stay back. That would have possibly put the provider over ration. I'm thinking it was a larger in home care if there were two of them running it.

This really needs to be a lesson-check over ALL paperwork and if something goes against providers wishes/needs the parent is more then likely not going to be a good fit.

great point CK... one time I over looked something on one of my contracts with a parent. BUT it was nothing like this, it was a very simple thing, but had I not caught it, it could have ended bad..

Now, when i enroll a new child, I require all paperwork in my hands before they start and I look over it front to back, and make sure that everything is signed and that I have a pretty good understanding about the child's admission history (like allergies to foods and what not)

[MarinaVanessa]

Just double checked our regulations-no we don't have to have permission to transport.

1. Have a valid license and proof of insurance
2. Adequate number of seat belt/car seats/booster seats

You have to have permission to use sunscreen but not transport children-very interesting-:confused:

The licensing regulations only apply to the states minimum regulations of how to run a FCC and have nothing to do with the contract between a parent and the provider. The state regulations also don't say that a parent must pay a provider for services rendered but those are still expected because you have a contract which the legal system can enforce ... see what I mean? So just because the state regulations for child care (Title 22) do not say anything about transportation (which licensing can do nothing about in her area as it seems) she may still be able to do something legally. If a verbal agreement is made it is still uphold-able in court regardless of whether it is in writing or not. The parent has the burden of proof to say that the provider was supposed to not transport the child in the vehicle and was to give the parent advance notice and did not. If the parent can prove these then I believe she has a chance.

This is no longer a battle through licensing, this is a court issue now. Did the provider give enough notice and did the provider break the agreement by transporting the child without the parent's permission.

I'm curious how OP knew where to pick him up?

According to the parent the provider told her about the game the night before the game at 8:00 p.m and told the parent that she was going to the game. At that point you can assume that she knew that the provider would be at the child's park during the time of the game. If she arrived at the home and found the child not at the property it can be assumed that you would know that there was no emergency considering that you knew that the provider was going to be at the game. There would be no reason to call the police if you know where your child is.

It was also probably mentioned at some point where her child plays games whether at school or at a sports park. The parent says that she able to get off at 4:30 pm and that the provider could have waited a bit and been late 10 minutes to her child's game, this makes me think that it was close so probably not hard to find.