Temination Due To Transportation W/Out Permission

[MarinaVanessa]

great point CK... one time I over looked something on one of my contracts with a parent. BUT it was nothing like this, it was a very simple thing, but had I not caught it, it could have ended bad..

Now, when i enroll a new child, I require all paperwork in my hands before they start and I look over it front to back, and make sure that everything is signed and that I have a pretty good understanding about the child's admission history (like allergies to foods and what not)

[Blackcat31]

And here is the kicker ... I doubt that this would even be a debate had this been known in the beginning. The parent signed the form which I now am assuming had two little boxes that gave you a choice to either agree or not agree with transportation. Probably something like
[] I agree to allow vehicle transportation
[] I do not agree with allowing vehicle transportation

If the parent marked the "I do not agree" box then the provider 100% had no business taking the child from the property in a car, but did so anyway. If the provider did not notice that the parent did not agree with vehicle transportation then it was an oversight in her part. This MIGHT be the parents way out of ending the contract without having to pay, it would be up to the discretion of the courts.

Question for the Parent: Does your contract or policies say anything about how it is the provider's responsibility to keep the child safe etc.?

If it does then this could help you in a claim against the provider to show that you are not entitled to pay for the termination period. Provider was to keep the child safe, gave clients the option to say that the do not accept vehicle transportation for their child, parent marked "I do not consent" box because parent felt that vehicle transportation is unsafe, parent was told she would be given a schedule or advance notice before vehicle transportation was required, provider did not give a schedule or sufficient notice, parent contacted provider to communicate that her work did not give her permission to leave early because no sufficient notice was given, provider took child in vehicle anyway, parent feels uncomfortable after this "safety issue" and immediately pulled her child from the daycare.

I would definitely contact legal counsel. Ask (in writing) that the provider give you copies of every form that you signed, a copy of the contract and policy handbook if she has one for you to take with you when you get legal advice.

You bring up some VERY valid points.

From what I've read so far, I believe the provider DID know the parent was not okay with transportation or she wouldn't have made a point of saying the parent had to pick up early.

If the provider thought the parent was ok with transporting the need for early pick up would have been irrelevant and the provider would simply have said that the parent could meet her and pick up her child at the baseball game when the parent was off work. Eliminating the need for early pick up.

Although Tom Copeland is clear about contracts being enforceable and policies being changed at will, I think transporting a child OFF SITE is akin to kidnapping (although I wouldn't classify it as such if I were to pursue the issue).

As a parent I would be LIVID if this happened to my child as I am one of those parents who has major issues with allowing someone else to transport my minor children.

I also imagine that since the provider texted the parent the night before and did NOT receive a response that it was her (provider) duty as the professional business owner to reiterate the agreement for early pick up at the time of drop off.

I am betting the provider simply didn't say anything because she KNEW the parent wasn't going to pick up and that would be HER out to get rid of the child/family that was a wrench in the plans to always be available to see her DS's baseball games.

There was definitely a lack of communication about expectations from BOTH parties but I will say again that the parent has a right to be angry and upset with the provider and I also feel that if I were the provider I would simply let this whole thing go and not pursue the remaining balance for the final 4 weeks of care. I would just be done.

As the parent I would more than likely try and come to a fair and equitable compromise with the provider and either agree to pay a portion of the final 4 weeks or not pay anything.

If the provider was persistent in trying to get payment, I would pay it but then you can bet your bottom dollar I would file a complaint (whether licensing would do anything or not is moot) against the provider and I would seriously consider trying to get my money back in civil courts. I think the safety of MINOR children is nothing to take lightly.

Tom Copeland does have a blog entry about this and DOES mention a parent permission slip but otherwise is vague about the laws concerning transportation of MINOR children without parental consent. http://www.tomcopelandblog.com/2010/...-provider.html

[Willow]

According to the parent the provider told her about the game the night before the game at 8:00 p.m and told the parent that she was going to the game. At that point you can assume that she knew that the provider would be at the child's park during the time of the game. If she arrived at the home and found the child not at the property it can be assumed that you would know that there was no emergency considering that you knew that the provider was going to be at the game. There would be no reason to call the police if you know where your child is.

It was also probably mentioned at some point where her child plays games whether at school or at a sports park. The parent says that she able to get off at 4:30 pm and that the provider could have waited a bit and been late 10 minutes to her child's game, this makes me think that it was close so probably not hard to find.

I disagree it's that simple. If the parent said the child couldn't go I don't see how then the parent would just assume the provider went regardless of her instruction not to.

I would have absolutely assumed there was an emergency if we'd both come to the understanding that she was not allowed to transport my child off the property. To say I'd have had a bird in an absolutely fit of panic probably would have been an understatement. I don't think any parent would be wrong for having done so when they discover their child isn't where they're supposed to be and they haven't been notified otherwise.

Also, if mom isn't from town I don't think it's a stretch to wonder how on earth she knew which park they were at and where they'd be sitting so she could come to collect her child.

The parent has the burden of proof to say that the provider was supposed to not transport the child in the vehicle and was to give the parent advance notice and did not. If the parent can prove these then I believe she has a chance.

This is no longer a battle through licensing, this is a court issue now.

I do agree with the above but again don't think the proof is there, at least from what's been said here.

Provider made it clear at interview time that she does not miss these games.

Provider notified parent of a game before drop off the day before (the amount of time is moot, she DID let her know).

Parent still dropped off the next day.

Parent did not pick up by the designated time.

Licensing has said there was no wrong doing on the providers part.


Those are the facts.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong what happened, only that I don't think mom is going to have a leg to stand on in court based on her actions in this. The rest is all a bunch of he said she said and a judge will not void a contract on that alone. If they did can you imagine how many parents could fudge to get out of fulfilling the termination notice stipulations of provider contracts??

[Angelwings36]

There are several things that you, the OP, have said since your original post that has made up my mind that I would never consider taking you on as a client. The provider was clearly upfront with you. She informed you from the get go that she would NOT miss NOT ONE game of her sons. You knew this and obviously since you did not agree for her to transport your son you DID AGREE TO PICK HIM UP FOR EVERY GAME. My son plays ball too and in the past we have gotten his schedule the day before ball games as well. This could have very well been the provider’s situation. The provider notified you that she would be CLOSED FOR YOU by 4:30pm the following day (since you didn’t allow transportation of your son) and you ignored the fact that SHE WOULD BE CLOSED. If you did that to me I would be livid. I don’t give a rats a** if I give you a months notice, a weeks notice, a couple days notice, 24 hours notice or an hours notice if I need to close for any reason you better be there to pick up your child. That just looks so wrong and neglectful on your part.

I wouldn’t have transported your child though I would have blown up your phone, all of your emergencies contacts and if no one responded my next call would have been to the police. You’re just lucky all she did was take your son with her to the game. I would have made you look like a complete fool and terminated my contract with you that day. I don’t transport but I do attend several fertility appointments every month for which I provide a back up provider for. If you were one of the parent’s that didn’t want your child left with my back up provider and you didn’t show up to pick him up when you were told he had to be picked up (and I sometimes get less than a days notice of these apt times) I would have left your son with my back up provider and then handed you a termination letter when you walked in my door that night.

I WOULD NOT PUT MY LIFE ON HOLD BECAUSE OF YOUR AWFUL PARENTING!! Oh and you better believe you would get no refund for any days of care that were already paid because my contract covers parents disrespecting me and gives me the ability to terminate families on the spot for this and keep all fees. I would have pocket the remainder of your fees for that month as well as your deposit. Also OP I would have been sending your son home every single day too if his nose was running to the extent you have said it was. I don’t care if it’s a cold or allergies I go off of symptoms only and I don’t have the time or the staff to wipe a child’s nose every 5 minutes while still providing excellent childcare to all my other children. The provider wasn’t lazy she was using common sense in that she didn’t have the time or extra staff to wipe his nose constantly or clean up everything he wiped his snot on.

It’s unfortunate that you have turned this situation around on the provider in the sense that she is now being looked down on for transporting your child when you didn’t give her permission to do so WHEN YOU WERE THE ONE THAT MADE ALL THE WRONG MOVES TO BEGIN WITH. I just see a child having a temper tantrum in this situation. Licensing said she wasn’t in the wrong but you still want to get her in trouble somehow. Why? Because your mad and your being childish. Maybe you should look at your HUGE mistakes in this situation.

[Unregistered]

It’s unfortunate that you have turned this situation around on the provider in the sense that she is now being looked down on for transporting your child when you didn’t give her permission to do so WHEN YOU WERE THE ONE THAT MADE ALL THE WRONG MOVES TO BEGIN WITH. I just see a child having a temper tantrum in this situation. Licensing said she wasn’t in the wrong but you still want to get her in trouble somehow. Why? Because your mad and your being childish.

I completely agree!!!!

Signed – The “Unregistered” from post #85 and #109 of this thread

[Crystal]

There are several things that you, the OP, have said since your original post that has made up my mind that I would never consider taking you on as a client. The provider was clearly upfront with you. She informed you from the get go that she would NOT miss NOT ONE game of her sons. You knew this and obviously since you did not agree for her to transport your son you DID AGREE TO PICK HIM UP FOR EVERY GAME. My son plays ball too and in the past we have gotten his schedule the day before ball games as well. This could have very well been the provider’s situation. The provider notified you that she would be CLOSED FOR YOU by 4:30pm the following day (since you didn’t allow transportation of your son) and you ignored the fact that SHE WOULD BE CLOSED. If you did that to me I would be livid. I don’t give a rats a** if I give you a months notice, a weeks notice, a couple days notice, 24 hours notice or an hours notice if I need to close for any reason you better be there to pick up your child. That just looks so wrong and neglectful on your part.

I wouldn’t have transported your child though I would have blown up your phone, all of your emergencies contacts and if no one responded my next call would have been to the police. You’re just lucky all she did was take your son with her to the game. I would have made you look like a complete fool and terminated my contract with you that day. I don’t transport but I do attend several fertility appointments every month for which I provide a back up provider for. If you were one of the parent’s that didn’t want your child left with my back up provider and you didn’t show up to pick him up when you were told he had to be picked up (and I sometimes get less than a days notice of these apt times) I would have left your son with my back up provider and then handed you a termination letter when you walked in my door that night.

I WOULD NOT PUT MY LIFE ON HOLD BECAUSE OF YOUR AWFUL PARENTING!! Oh and you better believe you would get no refund for any days of care that were already paid because my contract covers parents disrespecting me and gives me the ability to terminate families on the spot for this and keep all fees. I would have pocket the remainder of your fees for that month as well as your deposit. Also OP I would have been sending your son home every single day too if his nose was running to the extent you have said it was. I don’t care if it’s a cold or allergies I go off of symptoms only and I don’t have the time or the staff to wipe a child’s nose every 5 minutes while still providing excellent childcare to all my other children. The provider wasn’t lazy she was using common sense in that she didn’t have the time or extra staff to wipe his nose constantly or clean up everything he wiped his snot on.

It’s unfortunate that you have turned this situation around on the provider in the sense that she is now being looked down on for transporting your child when you didn’t give her permission to do so WHEN YOU WERE THE ONE THAT MADE ALL THE WRONG MOVES TO BEGIN WITH. I just see a child having a temper tantrum in this situation. Licensing said she wasn’t in the wrong but you still want to get her in trouble somehow. Why? Because your mad and your being childish. Maybe you should look at your HUGE mistakes in this situation.

Wow! That was ALL really uncalled for. How is she in AWFUL PARENT? WHY does the provider's right to GO TO A BASEBALL game, trump the parent's right to the CARE SHE PAID FOR and the possible the loss of her job if she left work for a NON-EMERGENCY?????

This parent agreed to pick her child up with NOTICE in ADVANCE so that she could inform her boss that she would be leaving work early. I do not think that is too much to ask, and the provider certainly could have informed her sooner.

I personally think that the provider did it intentionally so as to force the parent out of her care without having to terminate services herself.

And frankly, I think YOU are being extremely immature when you state that you would have "made a fool out of her". Honestly, if you called the police, I think you would have made a fool of yourself. The police aren't going to touch a case where a provider calls them because a parent didn't pick up early for her to go to her son's baseball game.

[Angelwings36]

all members of this family refuse to miss any of his baseball games if they are located in town. at the start of my son attending they had me sign a contract and included a permission slip for transportation of my son to these baseball games if i could not pick him up before the game-i did NOT sign it. i work 8am-5pm everyday and the games start at 4:30 in which she said, at the time of signing up, that she would let me know the dates of these games.

I have to agree with Willow in the sense that some of the key facts are obviously missing from this story. See above: THEY HAD ME SIGN A CONTRACT AND INCLUDED A PERMISSION SLIP FOR TRANSPORTATION OF MY SON TO THERE BASEBALL GAMES IF I COULD NOT PICK HIM UP BEFORE THE GAME.

If the above was in the contract including the IF I COULD NOT PICK HIM UP BEFORE THE GAME. I think it is safe to say that the true wording of the contract likely stipulated that parent's had two options. They could allow transportation to these baseball games OR they could pick up their child.

I feel we are not getting the full story.

[Crystal]

I am SICK of providers defending other providers who are wrong simply to be in defense of their "profession" and never seeing anything from a parent's point of view.

This parent was not being unreasonable in any way and those of you who are chastising her should be ashamed of yourselves, and honestly you make me ashamed of being a provider, as I know that parents tend to lump us all together and think we are all the same.

Parents have rights. They have the right to DEMAND that their child not be transported. They have the right to expect AMPLE notification of early pick ups/closures. They have the right to expect to recieve the services for whihc they PAY.

Good grief, I honestly wonder how some of you manage to stay in business.

[Angelwings36]

Wow! That was ALL really uncalled for. How is she in AWFUL PARENT? WHY does the provider's right to GO TO A BASEBALL game, trump the parent's right to the CARE SHE PAID FOR and the possible the loss of her job if she left work for a NON-EMERGENCY?????

This parent agreed to pick her child up with NOTICE in ADVANCE so that she could inform her boss that she would be leaving work early. I do not think that is too much to ask, and the provider certainly could have informed her sooner.

I personally think that the provider did it intentionally so as to force the parent out of her care without having to terminate services herself.

And frankly, I think YOU are being extremely immature when you state that you would have "made a fool out of her". Honestly, if you called the police, I think you would have made a fool of yourself. The police aren't going to touch a case where a provider calls them because a parent didn't pick up early for her to go to her son's baseball game.

Crystal I used the wording "awful parenting" in connection with the part where she was TOLD to pick up her child and didn't pick up her child. That's neglect as far as I am concerned. You're right it is the provider's right to go to her son's baseball games as she sees fit. And in her right to do so as a professional she needs to let parent's know that either A) she will transport them to the games along with her or B) they will have to pick up. The provider did this. The parent was in the wrong by agreeing that instead of having the provider transport the child she would pick him up and then failed to pick him up. The parent didn't pay the provider to watch her son over the provider's son's ball game times as per the contractual agreement the parent was to pick the child up over those times meaning the provider would not be paid to care for him over those times as the child was not suppose to be in attendance during those periods of time. Whether the parent would be putting her job on the line in this situation isn't the provider's problem. The parent is the one that agreed to pick her child up early for every game.

No one has defined what NOTICE IN ADVANCE means. I inform my families in advance (as soon as I know) of my fertility appointments and to me sometimes that notice means less than 12 hours.

You do not think that calling all of the parent's emergency contacts and getting the police involved (regardless of to what extent they can help) would not make the parent feel like a fool? That's ok because I think it would.

[Angelwings36]

I am SICK of providers defending other providers who are wrong simply to be in defense of their "profession" and never seeing anything from a parent's point of view.

This parent was not being unreasonable in any way and those of you who are chastising her should be ashamed of yourselves, and honestly you make me ashamed of being a provider, as I know that parents tend to lump us all together and think we are all the same.

Parents have rights. They have the right to DEMAND that their child not be transported. They have the right to expect AMPLE notification of early pick ups/closures. They have the right to expect to recieve the services for whihc they PAY.

Good grief, I honestly wonder how some of you manage to stay in business.

No one is saying that the provider was right. Infact all I was saying was that the parent was the one in the wrong to begin with. Your right parent's have rights. They have the right to demand that their child not be transported. The provider tried to work with the parent on this situation it's the parent who in end didn't work with the provider which caused the provider to make a bad decision.

Parent's don't have the right to ample notification of early pick ups/closures. Unless that is part of the contractual agreement. Life happens and ample notification can not always be given. That's common sense.

This parent didn't pay for the service of her child being cared for over the time the provider's son had baseball. That was clearly covered.

[daycare]

so this thread does not get hairy, I think that we can all agree and learn that this was not a good business deal from the start.

I think we should just leave it at that...

As providers, we should learn from this that if a family cannot comply with all of our polices of our PHB, then they are not a good fit for us and enter into an agreement together when everyone is not on the same page. The parent should recognize the same. In the end, it is us provider who makes the final decision if a family is allowed to enroll or not....NOt the parents..

We should not offer special just for families, we know in the end, most of the time it never works out..... THis case proves it.

there is a lot of confusion in this thread, and we are only getting one side of the story here. All we can do is make a lot of assumptions of what did or did not happen...

I stopped posting on this form because I got tired of the outta control post and I just started posting again this week, just to find out that I guess these types of post are always going to exists......

Hopefully we can all keep this civil..........

[Crystal]

No one is saying that the provider was right. Infact all I was saying was that the parent was the one in the wrong to begin with. Your right parent's have rights. They have the right to demand that their child not be transported. The provider tried to work with the parent on this situation it's the parent who in end didn't work with the provider which caused the provider to make a bad decision.

Parent's don't have the right to ample notification of early pick ups/closures. Unless that is part of the contractual agreement. Life happens and ample notification can not always be given. That's common sense.

This parent didn't pay for the service of her child being cared for over the time the provider's son had baseball. That was clearly covered.

You are very much saying the provider is right.

There is absolutley NO REASON that the provider couldn't have given earlier notice. There is NO WAY she found out at 8:00 the night before that her child had a game the next day. She did it intentionally because she wanted to cause the parent to be the one to terminate services so she wouldn't have to.

I would definately take legal action against her if she tried to charge me for the last four weeks of care.

[Angelwings36]

You are very much saying the provider is right.

There is absolutley NO REASON that the provider couldn't have given earlier notice. There is NO WAY she found out at 8:00 the night before that her child had a game the next day. She did it intentionally because she wanted to cause the parent to be the one to terminate services so she wouldn't have to.

I would definately take legal action against her if she tried to charge me for the last four weeks of care.

Well I have gotten my son's baseball schedules the night before a game so I guess I see it differently then you. But let's agree to disagree here. I was just stating my opinion in the same way you were.

[kelliott]

There are several things that you, the OP, have said since your original post that has made up my mind that I would never consider taking you on as a client. The provider was clearly upfront with you. She informed you from the get go that she would NOT miss NOT ONE game of her sons. You knew this and obviously since you did not agree for her to transport your son you DID AGREE TO PICK HIM UP FOR EVERY GAME. My son plays ball too and in the past we have gotten his schedule the day before ball games as well. This could have very well been the provider’s situation. The provider notified you that she would be CLOSED FOR YOU by 4:30pm the following day (since you didn’t allow transportation of your son) and you ignored the fact that SHE WOULD BE CLOSED. If you did that to me I would be livid. I don’t give a rats a** if I give you a months notice, a weeks notice, a couple days notice, 24 hours notice or an hours notice if I need to close for any reason you better be there to pick up your child. That just looks so wrong and neglectful on your part.

I wouldn’t have transported your child though I would have blown up your phone, all of your emergencies contacts and if no one responded my next call would have been to the police. You’re just lucky all she did was take your son with her to the game. I would have made you look like a complete fool and terminated my contract with you that day. I don’t transport but I do attend several fertility appointments every month for which I provide a back up provider for. If you were one of the parent’s that didn’t want your child left with my back up provider and you didn’t show up to pick him up when you were told he had to be picked up (and I sometimes get less than a days notice of these apt times) I would have left your son with my back up provider and then handed you a termination letter when you walked in my door that night.

I WOULD NOT PUT MY LIFE ON HOLD BECAUSE OF YOUR AWFUL PARENTING!! Oh and you better believe you would get no refund for any days of care that were already paid because my contract covers parents disrespecting me and gives me the ability to terminate families on the spot for this and keep all fees. I would have pocket the remainder of your fees for that month as well as your deposit. Also OP I would have been sending your son home every single day too if his nose was running to the extent you have said it was. I don’t care if it’s a cold or allergies I go off of symptoms only and I don’t have the time or the staff to wipe a child’s nose every 5 minutes while still providing excellent childcare to all my other children. The provider wasn’t lazy she was using common sense in that she didn’t have the time or extra staff to wipe his nose constantly or clean up everything he wiped his snot on.

It’s unfortunate that you have turned this situation around on the provider in the sense that she is now being looked down on for transporting your child when you didn’t give her permission to do so WHEN YOU WERE THE ONE THAT MADE ALL THE WRONG MOVES TO BEGIN WITH. I just see a child having a temper tantrum in this situation. Licensing said she wasn’t in the wrong but you still want to get her in trouble somehow. Why? Because your mad and your being childish. Maybe you should look at your HUGE mistakes in this situation.

i am not asking for refund of any kind..and to say that i am an awful parent is ridiculous!!!.. attack me .. attack the fact that you think i'm being childish in that i wanted my son SAFE... but DO NOT comment on my parenting..you know nothing about the mother i am..keep your judgemental ridiculous immature comments to yourself! apparently the schedule is posted online in February, so no, she did not get it that night...i did respond her text that night about why she gave me such short notice..and she still took in my child the next day. with doing that i felt we were on the same page with the transportation situation.... i am simply here to ask for advice..not for your rude hateful opinion... perhaps you are on the wrong site..!!!

[Angelwings36]

i am not asking for refund of any kind..and to say that i am an awful parent is ridiculous!!!.. attack me .. attack the fact that you think i'm being childish in that i wanted my son SAFE... but DO NOT comment on my parenting..you know nothing about the mother i am..keep your judgemental ridiculous immature comments to yourself! apparently the schedule is posted online in February, so no, she did not get it that night...i did respond her text that night about why she gave me such short notice..and she still took in my child the next day. with doing that i felt we were on the same page with the transportation situation.... i am simply here to ask for advice..not for your rude hateful opinion... perhaps you are on the wrong site..!!!

And I am here to give my opinion. I understand you wanted to keep your child safe and that's great. But you then should have picked him up and not risked the provider transporting him that day. Do you not feel you played a part in risking his safety? To me you gambled.