Pulled Son Out of Daycare Due to Safety Issues - Contract Question

[CityGarden]

I think you would still be obligated to pay the month notice period.

If the child care was truly endangering your child the state would not have issued them written citations but would instead have shut them down.

I agree with this an expanded on it in my post above. I would move my child if I felt the need for any reason but I would still honor my financial obligation and protocol. Even if my child no longer attended I would pay give 30 days notice for the spot (even though my child was not there) and move on with life.

This provider needs to be reported for not following licensing regs.

When you receive a citation, you must post a copy of the LIC809 on the front door during daycare hours for 30 days. You also must have a parent sign a LIC9224 stating that they received a copy of the citation. That form must be kept in the child's file.

As far as getting your money back, that all depends on your contract. Going to small claims is a gamble. I've heard of both sides winning.

I did not realize that was the case in California but if that is the case it could be reported to licensing it would not be the jurisdiction of a small claims judge.

Ok, I just pulled up my license and this it what it shows....

Type A Citation: 1
Type B Citation: 1

One or more citations may be under appeal and/or may have been corrected. Contact the State Licensing Office for more information.


It does not show what the citation is for. My Class A was for 2 tomato plants. My Class B was because I didn't have my fire drill log available. I forgot where I had put it. I found it and faxed it in 10 mins after my analyst left.

I have pulled other providers licenses in California and some a quite detailed. All I have seen with violations list what the violation was ---- maybe yours is not because it is pending.

Also is there any appeal for you? I would hope you could appeal in your situation.

[Unregistered]

Because she posted in the Daycare Owner/Operator forum. Had she posted in the Parent/Guardian forum, reactions would be opposite and they had probably even told her she can sue the daycare for negligence

Indeed. I am a parent and I am surprised by some of the comments above. Remind me not to enroll my child in any of your daycares if you think hiring someone with no background/criminal/child abuse check is no big deal and that the parent should keep their kids in the daycare and/or pay for an extra month after the provider failed to follow that step and to report it to the parent.

The contract is money for "care". If the provider failed to provide a safe environment then her part in the contract was breached regardless of the wording.

My advice: Should the daycare provider threaten to take you to court, counter-sue for negligence. As a parent, any provider letting employees who are not background-checked near my kids is negligence as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure any reasonable judge will agree.

[CityGarden]

All that said, I feel for you. :hug: If my child were in a situation where I felt uncomfortable for any reason I would pull them and I would honor my contract as well. I would honor the contract because it would still likely cost me less than going to court or trying to get out of the contract would.

An example of this, I signed a lease for a furnished office space this year and it was terrible they would not let me pay in a method I could easily write off as a business expense (paypal via friends and family instead of business), they left items that were unwanted and far beyond what I considered a furnished office (food in the fridge, old paperwork in the file cabinets, etc.) these were things I did not expect that were presented after I signed the lease --- I still paid the rent for the 10 months (the entire term of the lease) which just ended my obligation to that this month. It ****ed, I hated paying for something that I ultimately did not utilize but really it was what I agreed to. An option of 30 days notice to be out of the contract is much less than a lease (like I had on the office space) or an annual contract (which is what I require in my preschool program)

[sharlan]

I agree with this an expanded on it in my post above. I would move my child if I felt the need for any reason but I would still honor my financial obligation and protocol. Even if my child no longer attended I would pay give 30 days notice for the spot (even though my child was not there) and move on with life.



I did not realize that was the case in California but if that is the case it could be reported to licensing it would not be the jurisdiction of a small claims judge.



I have pulled other providers licenses in California and some a quite detailed. All I have seen with violations list what the violation was ---- maybe yours is not because it is pending.

Also is there any appeal for you? I would hope you could appeal in your situation.

Mine was in 2012. There was no appeal because they were legitimate citations under our regs. Tomato plants are considered poisonous.

[Unregistered]

Aren't those inspections preformed like once a year or something? If they found those issues during a random inspection, most likely this has been going on for a while, and in that day they happened to get "caught".

I'm with the other parent, that letting employees work with children without following proper procedure and getting them background-checked is a big no-no

I wouldn't worry about the daycare suing you since that would surely backfire for the daycare - ie if licensing found out they did not supply copies of the report to the parents they could get more fines and the license be put on probation

[Thriftylady]

Aren't those inspections preformed like once a year or something? If they found those issues during a random inspection, most likely this has been going on for a while, and in that day they happened to get "caught".

I'm with the other parent, that letting employees work with children without following proper procedure and getting them background-checked is a big no-no

I wouldn't worry about the daycare suing you since that would surely backfire for the daycare - ie if licensing found out they did not supply copies of the report to the parents they could get more fines and the license be put on probation

This inspection was due to a complaint according to the OP who knew about the complaint and was looking for the report. The OP never answered the questions we asked, which leads me to believe that the OP made a complaint to get out of paying. If you are going to make a complaint, you should have already removed your child BEFORE you make the complaint. If it is bad enough for a complaint it is to bad for you to leave your child. And in my county in Ohio, licensed providers get 4 unannounced visits per year.

[Unregistered]

This inspection was due to a complaint according to the OP who knew about the complaint and was looking for the report. The OP never answered the questions we asked, which leads me to believe that the OP made a complaint to get out of paying. If you are going to make a complaint, you should have already removed your child BEFORE you make the complaint. If it is bad enough for a complaint it is to bad for you to leave your child. And in my county in Ohio, licensed providers get 4 unannounced visits per year.

You got this mixed up with another thread

https://daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82676

Here, the OP was saying they went to the licensing website and found those violations, there was no complaint initiated by the OP

[Thriftylady]

You got this mixed up with another thread

https://daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82676

Here, the OP was saying they went to the licensing website and found those violations, there was no complaint initiated by the OP

This is in California. The home daycare my son attends had an inspection last month that found a couple of severe issues for which it received citations - Chemicals accessible to kids, as well as 2 employees with no background check or CPR training.

The inspector issued a report of all the findings. The report stated that all parents need to be provided with a copy of that report. However, the daycare never mentioned that report to me and definitely didn't give me a copy of it (obviously it did not want me to know).

I happened to check the public licensing website today (over one month after the report) and was very alarmed by it, so I pulled my son out of the daycare immediately.

I take this to mean the OP knew about the inspection a month ago.

[spedmommy4]

Indeed. I am a parent and I am surprised by some of the comments above. Remind me not to enroll my child in any of your daycares if you think hiring someone with no background/criminal/child abuse check is no big deal and that the parent should keep their kids in the daycare and/or pay for an extra month after the provider failed to follow that step and to report it to the parent.

The contract is money for "care". If the provider failed to provide a safe environment then her part in the contract was breached regardless of the wording.

My advice: Should the daycare provider threaten to take you to court, counter-sue for negligence. As a parent, any provider letting employees who are not background-checked near my kids is negligence as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure any reasonable judge will agree.

I may get flamed here but I agree with this. When I had my kids in after school childcare programs, I chose licensed because I knew the staff had to pass background checks. I would be furious if I found out the person or business I entrusted to care for my children wasn't taking that regulation seriously.

My opinion is based on personal experience. When my kids were younger we had the option to go with a much more expensive licensed facility or an unlicensed club. The unlicensed after school club facility (we didn't choose) ended up being shut down because they hired a sex offender, and one of the kids was abused. Background checks aren't a guarantee of safety but they are mandatory in our business for a reason.

The licensing issue and contract aren't necessarily separate. Some parents, myself included, always choose licensed care because we view it as safer, higher quality, etc. When the provider didn't follow the regulations and then failed to notify about the citations, she stopped providing the standard of care OP signed up for. A judge may or may not agree but I would certainly argue it.

[Thriftylady]

I may get flamed here but I agree with this. When I had my kids in after school childcare programs, I chose licensed because I knew the staff had to pass background checks. I would be furious if I found out the person or business I entrusted to care for my children wasn't taking that regulation seriously.

My opinion is based on personal experience. When my kids were younger we had the option to go with a much more expensive licensed facility or an unlicensed club. The unlicensed after school club facility (we didn't choose) ended up being shut down because they hired a sex offender, and one of the kids was abused. Background checks aren't a guarantee of safety but they are mandatory in our business for a reason.

The licensing issue and contract aren't necessarily separate. Some parents, myself included, always choose licensed care because we view it as safer, higher quality, etc. When the provider didn't follow the regulations and then failed to notify about the citations, she stopped providing the standard of care OP signed up for. A judge may or may not agree but I would certainly argue it.

I am not going to "flame" you. But I have seen some licensed providers who gave far worse care than some unlicensed ones (including myself). Licensing only does so much the rest is up to the parents to make sure things are as they think they should be or choose another provider. Now if the rule for background checks was broken, that is a big deal, but if the state was being slow in getting them redone (if they are redone yearly or whatever) then that is the states fault. Just not submitting them or getting them done, there is no excuse for if they were required. As far as the chemicals in reach, that is so vague. I mean someone could have set down a box of baby wipes when they got distracted when licensing came in. Without knowing the facts, it is unfair to judge.

[spedmommy4]

I am not going to "flame" you. But I have seen some licensed providers who gave far worse care than some unlicensed ones (including myself). Licensing only does so much the rest is up to the parents to make sure things are as they think they should be or choose another provider. Now if the rule for background checks was broken, that is a big deal, but if the state was being slow in getting them redone (if they are redone yearly or whatever) then that is the states fault. Just not submitting them or getting them done, there is no excuse for if they were required. As far as the chemicals in reach, that is so vague. I mean someone could have set down a box of baby wipes when they got distracted when licensing came in. Without knowing the facts, it is unfair to judge.

I completely agree with you. There are good and awful people taking care of kids in licensed, licensed exempt, and centers. I don't know about other states but here, home providers can be licensed or "trust lined." (License exempt but still background checked)

Unlike other states I've lived in, here you only get your background checked once and then you stay in the system forever. I know other places, like Oregon, it's every few years.

As a business owner, I guess I just can't imagine knowingly hiring someone who wasn't background checked. Too much liability there.

Now, it could by that the provider was stuck with no help and called her cousin or mom in to help in an emergency but if that was the case she should have explained it to the parents. It could have avoided this whole situation.

[Play Care]

I may get flamed here but I agree with this. When I had my kids in after school childcare programs, I chose licensed because I knew the staff had to pass background checks. I would be furious if I found out the person or business I entrusted to care for my children wasn't taking that regulation seriously.

My opinion is based on personal experience. When my kids were younger we had the option to go with a much more expensive licensed facility or an unlicensed club. The unlicensed after school club facility (we didn't choose) ended up being shut down because they hired a sex offender, and one of the kids was abused. Background checks aren't a guarantee of safety but they are mandatory in our business for a reason.

The licensing issue and contract aren't necessarily separate. Some parents, myself included, always choose licensed care because we view it as safer, higher quality, etc. When the provider didn't follow the regulations and then failed to notify about the citations, she stopped providing the standard of care OP signed up for. A judge may or may not agree but I would certainly argue it.

In this case the provider seems to be required by law/regulations to notify parents of the citations.
I suspect they didn't because of the lack of background checks. IMO, that is a BIG deal.

My feeling has always been that at least with licensed care there is a chance the provider will be "found" out before a tragedy. In this case, the parent realized the provider had at least one serious citation and was able to make an informed decision.

[Thriftylady]

I completely agree with you. There are good and awful people taking care of kids in licensed, licensed exempt, and centers. I don't know about other states but here, home providers can be licensed or "trust lined." (License exempt but still background checked)

Unlike other states I've lived in, here you only get your background checked once and then you stay in the system forever. I know other places, like Oregon, it's every few years.

As a business owner, I guess I just can't imagine knowingly hiring someone who wasn't background checked. Too much liability there.

Now, it could by that the provider was stuck with no help and called her cousin or mom in to help in an emergency but if that was the case she should have explained it to the parents. It could have avoided this whole situation.

Having one background check last forever seems odd to me. A lot can happen in a year, or five.

[sleepinghart]

The regulation states that providers must give parents a copy even if parents don't request it. It adds insult to injury in some cases but I believe the intent is to make sure parents are educated about the quality of care they are choosing.

~Oh, okay; thanks. In that document form LIC 9224, what is a "conference"? Is this just another way of saying any "visit" or any "citation", etc. or is a conference some kind of specialized meeting?:confused:


"Copy of licensing documents pertaining to a conference conducted by a local licensing agency management
representative and the licensee of this child care center/family child care home in which issues of noncompliance are
discussed."

[Play Care]

Having one background check last forever seems odd to me. A lot can happen in a year, or five.

In my State (and I suspect others)if a provider/employee/family member is arrested licensing must be notified. Thankfully I haven't been in that position, but I imagine depending on the outcome of the case the provider may lose their license or in the case of an employee they can be fired.
It's all about checks and balances.