Pulled Son Out of Daycare Due to Safety Issues - Contract Question

[mommyneedsadayoff]

Did you like your daycare prior to finding out about this report? Were there other issues already in your mind and this was the last straw? Did you speak with them about the report and what actually happened?

[sharlan]

To the OP: You did the right thing by pulling your son out. I wouldn't want to place my daughter in any daycare that allows un-background checked staff near her or is careless about chemicals (if it was found in a random inspection, this might have been a recurring issue). Plus not revealing the report to you despite required is shady; provider should have discussed the report with you and promised to fix things.

As for the money; Given the circumstances I don't think the daycare should require it from you. If they do take you to small claims court, you can show the report to the judge and try to convince him the daycare was in breach for not providing a safe environment as it is supposed to. May go either way, depending on the judge and the arguments

California is a VERY gray state. Everything depends on the analyst and his/her mood for the day. The chemicals could have been the wrong brand of hand soap in the bathroom, shampoo in the shower, an empty tube of toothpaste in the trashcan, dishsoap on the counter, diaper cream on the table, etc. ANYTHING that says "keep out of the reach of children" is can be classified as a chemical.

As for background checks, that is an absolute must and the provider knew that.

Only one person has to have their CPR. It is not required for the assistants.

[Unregistered]

I agree with spedmommy4

I think the fact that the daycare hired staff without background check to work near children is ground enough for terminating. Like another poster said, judge will have to rule on that but you have a good case.

Also not sure why so many people are defending the daycare when it was trying to hide the report from the parents. If it said "parents must get a copy", then parents must get a copy. Parents need to know about this to make informed decisions on their kids. Not all parents know they can check licensing website. Had the daycare provider gone to OP and said "here is your copy of the report we got. I apologize about the cleaning supplies left near the table, I was just sanitizing the other day and forgot to put them away...and I will be more strict about who I hire from now on" or something like that then maybe I could see the daycare's side. But trying to hide it just made it worse.

[Unregistered]

Also not sure why so many people are defending the daycare ...

Because she posted in the Daycare Owner/Operator forum. Had she posted in the Parent/Guardian forum, reactions would be opposite and they had probably even told her she can sue the daycare for negligence

[mommyneedsadayoff]

I agree with spedmommy4

I think the fact that the daycare hired staff without background check to work near children is ground enough for terminating. Like another poster said, judge will have to rule on that but you have a good case.

Also not sure why so many people are defending the daycare when it was trying to hide the report from the parents. If it said "parents must get a copy", then parents must get a copy. Parents need to know about this to make informed decisions on their kids. Not all parents know they can check licensing website. Had the daycare provider gone to OP and said "here is your copy of the report we got. I apologize about the cleaning supplies left near the table, I was just sanitizing the other day and forgot to put them away...and I will be more strict about who I hire from now on" or something like that then maybe I could see the daycare's side. But trying to hide it just made it worse.

Were they trying to hide the report or did they post it in a parent accessible area? As others said, it is public information, so I don't know that I can confirm one way or another that they are hiding it.

[MunchkinWrangler]

I guess my response was due to the fact that just because the provider had a citation doesn't mean that makes a contract void. I don't see any evidence of the OP regarding communication with the provider. Does the OP know who the employees are, were they hired randoms, family, the homeless guy down the street etc. I would assume that OP was introduced to these people, as for the background check, yes I absolutely would be a little miffed about it but if it was my mom most people wouldn't care about the background check. The CPR training is only required if they are left alone with the children from what I understand so that topic is void.

I guess I wish there was more info otherwise all I'm hearing is "I didn't give proper notice but the provider is bad so that means I don't have to follow the rules." In other worlds, backstabbing the provider. If the OP trusted the provider enough to use her services I don't understand the turn around. I just feel like I'm not getting the whole story on this one.

[Unregistered]

Assuming the situation is as described by OP, both sides may have a case since they both didn't go by the rules; Daycare failed to give parents copy of report as required by law/regulations, and Parents failed to give notice. So you're both even I think

But if it does get to Small Claims a judge will look at all the facts and then decide. I don't think anybody here can give you a conclusive answer since we can't look at the whole picture.

Good luck OP however it turns out

[sharlan]

Were they trying to hide the report or did they post it in a parent accessible area? As others said, it is public information, so I don't know that I can confirm one way or another that they are hiding it.

I am not defending either the provider or the parent.

The citation must be posted on the front door AND the parents must sign a form stating that they read the citation. A copy of both must be in the child's file. The provider was noncompliant in not doing both.

It is public information BUT California just started doing this last year and most people - providers and parents are not aware of it. Also, you must have the exact name in order to look up a daycare. Some go by Blah Blah Daycare and others Blah Blah Childcare.

[sleepinghart]

The regulations say that staff must have a background check and cpr training before working at the daycare. There is no "late". The provider was fined $1000 for that according to the report. And the provider never told me about the report, I found out about it myself from the licensing website, even though the report indicates that a copy MUST be provided to the parent.

So surely that some sort of negligence on the provider that would allow me to breach the contract?

(^^bolding^^ by me)
~I just wonder if that means that "parents shall be provided a copy, a paper copy, upon request" or "parent must receive, or is entitled, to a copy upon request". ..I mean since the full report is up and accessible for everyone to see on the website and all anyway:confused:.

[spedmommy4]

(^^bolding^^ by me)
~I just wonder if that means that "parents shall be provided a copy, a paper copy, upon request" or "parent must receive, or is entitled, to a copy upon request". ..I mean since the full report is up and accessible for everyone to see on the website and all anyway:confused:.

The regulation states that providers must give parents a copy even if parents don't request it. It adds insult to injury in some cases but I believe the intent is to make sure parents are educated about the quality of care they are choosing.

[thrivingchildcarecom]

You are so right! GRAY is actually the best way to put it. I have a family member who has a child care too. She was once sited for having a jar of Vasoline under the counter in her bathroom. And you know how its written up "violating rights of a child".

I think people truly forget that for many providers this is the first time we have been in business for ourselves. Isolated at home for the most part, our on the job training is actually over time and after being exposed to many different circumstances. In California, we have over 80+ regulations to follow at our child care. Even though we are obligated to follow these rules, there can be occasions when something gets missed. Especially when you consider we live in our businesses along with our family members as well.

Somethings raised here could be valid concerns, but I would hope for my parent clients to give me the respect to at least be up front and converse with me before jumping to conclusions and ending our relationship.

[renodeb]

It is the responsibility of the provider to make sure the background checks went through, no employee should have contact with kids until they pass. CPR is a once every two year thing here (no exceptions)
That being said, unless there was a specific clause in the contract that provider can hold you to it.
Deb

[sharlan]

(^^bolding^^ by me)
~I just wonder if that means that "parents shall be provided a copy, a paper copy, upon request" or "parent must receive, or is entitled, to a copy upon request". ..I mean since the full report is up and accessible for everyone to see on the website and all anyway:confused:.

No, parents MUST be given a copy of the report and also sign a statement that they RECEIVED the copy. Violations must also be posted on the front door during all daycare hours.

This provider was trying to hide the violations, IMHO. She failed to post the inspection, she failed to give parents a copy of it, and she failed to have the parents state that they had received a copy.

I am not sure if the entire report is on the website or not. It is something relatively new to CA and not everyone is aware of it.

[sharlan]

No, parents MUST be given a copy of the report and also sign a statement that they RECEIVED the copy. Violations must also be posted on the front door during all daycare hours.

This provider was trying to hide the violations, IMHO. She failed to post the inspection, she failed to give parents a copy of it, and she failed to have the parents state that they had received a copy.

I am not sure if the entire report is on the website or not. It is something relatively new to CA and not everyone is aware of it.

Ok, I just pulled up my license and this it what it shows....

Type A Citation: 1
Type B Citation: 1

One or more citations may be under appeal and/or may have been corrected. Contact the State Licensing Office for more information.


It does not show what the citation is for. My Class A was for 2 tomato plants. My Class B was because I didn't have my fire drill log available. I forgot where I had put it. I found it and faxed it in 10 mins after my analyst left.

[CityGarden]

If the state found items worthy of shutting DCP down for any period of time (two days, two weeks, two months, etc) I think you would be able to show a court that the provider breached the contract by not honoring their end by providing care and causing you to make alternate arrangements. Because this is a month later and you happened to check the licensing site it could become a he said / she said case in court and ultimately most courts rule based on jurisdiction, facts, and contracts.

DCP can say they put a copy of said item in child's bag/ in the parent folder / posted it / emailed a link...... do you have proof they did not?

From Sharlan....
"When you receive a citation, you must post a copy of the LIC809 on the front door during daycare hours for 30 days. You also must have a parent sign a LIC9224 stating that they received a copy of the citation. That form must be kept in the child's file."

If this statement from Sharlan is correct and the provider cannot show you signed said form that would be one form of proof ---- still that would be a license violation not a matter for the court to rule on as it is out of their jurisdiction. Also know a judge could elect to toss any testimonial related to licensing as irrelevant since ultimately the state did not close the daycare (for even an hour) and there is likely no mention of that as a means to void the financial contract you signed. You removing your child so abruptly does provide a financial burden on the provider and will likely create a monetary loss due to not providing proper notice so DCP will have damages ---- not to mention the potential loss of earnings from taking time off work to file and to attend court for both the DCP and yourself. I don't mean to seem negative but court is always a gamble...

All that said, I feel for you. :hug: If my child were in a situation where I felt uncomfortable for any reason I would pull them and I would honor my contract as well. I would honor the contract because it would still likely cost me less than going to court or trying to get out of the contract would.