Pulled Son Out of Daycare Due to Safety Issues - Contract Question

[Unregistered]

This is in California. The home daycare my son attends had an inspection last month that found a couple of severe issues for which it received citations - Chemicals accessible to kids, as well as 2 employees with no background check or CPR training.

The inspector issued a report of all the findings. The report stated that all parents need to be provided with a copy of that report. However, the daycare never mentioned that report to me and definitely didn't give me a copy of it (obviously it did not want me to know).

I happened to check the public licensing website today (over one month after the report) and was very alarmed by it, so I pulled my son out of the daycare immediately.

Anyway my question is, the contract I signed when I enrolled my son there requires a 1 month notice when pulling out. But given the circumstances, would the daycare still be able to require me to pay for that one month for example by taking me to small claims court? Would I be able to say that the daycare was not upholding its responsibilities of providing a safe environment and abiding by regulations, even though that's not explicitly written in the contract?

[laundrymom]

Did you find out the details from provider?
Here that could mean I had windex on the counter or shampoo in the shower.
Or that the background check was late for some reason. .
I would expect you to adhere to contract.

[Unregistered]

Did you find out the details from provider?
Here that could mean I had windex on the counter or shampoo in the shower.
Or that the background check was late for some reason. .
I would expect you to adhere to contract.

The regulations say that staff must have a background check and cpr training before working at the daycare. There is no "late". The provider was fined $1000 for that according to the report. And the provider never told me about the report, I found out about it myself from the licensing website, even though the report indicates that a copy MUST be provided to the parent.

So surely that some sort of negligence on the provider that would allow me to breach the contract?

[laundrymom]

I would still hold you to contract. Unless there's something in it to specifically address the issue. Also, that is a licensing reg. Correct? Is there a place in the contract between you and provider saying you will be notified of any licensing issues? If not I would guess it's not something enforceable with your contract but rather between provider and licensing.
I realize that they didn't tell you but that's getting pretty nit picky. Especially since its public information.

In the future maybe ask providers to specifically include the things you want in a contract or make your own and hire a nanny?
Then you have more control over the policies.
I don't see anything in your post saying your child was mistreated or neglected. I only see you being upset because of a licensing report. Which is understandable. You can get upset but that doesn't mean you get out of your contractual obligations.

[Thriftylady]

I agree with the others, unless there was a specific clause in the contract, you owe this and it will hold up in court. The chemicals could have been as simple as an empty tube of toothpaste in the trash! Sometimes states get slow on background checks and that isn't the providers fault they still have to stay in compliance on ratios. As far as the CPR perhaps it was in progress or it could have been that the employee had it, and the proof was misplaced.

If you had talked to the provider, you may have been able to clear up something that was silly. Because much of this is. Also some things are reportable to parents, others are not, usually when they are the provider has to have parents sign that they are aware?

My next question is how do you know it has been a month since a call to licensing? Did you make that call? If so why?

[childcaremom]

This is in California. The home daycare my son attends had an inspection last month that found a couple of severe issues for which it received citations - Chemicals accessible to kids, as well as 2 employees with no background check or CPR training.

The inspector issued a report of all the findings. The report stated that all parents need to be provided with a copy of that report. However, the daycare never mentioned that report to me and definitely didn't give me a copy of it (obviously it did not want me to know).

I happened to check the public licensing website today (over one month after the report) and was very alarmed by it, so I pulled my son out of the daycare immediately.

Anyway my question is, the contract I signed when I enrolled my son there requires a 1 month notice when pulling out. But given the circumstances, would the daycare still be able to require me to pay for that one month for example by taking me to small claims court? Would I be able to say that the daycare was not upholding its responsibilities of providing a safe environment and abiding by regulations, even though that's not explicitly written in the contract?

Does it have to be stated in the contract that a daycare will following licensing regulations? I mean, for a licensed daycare, isn't that stating the obvious? If licensing states that when a provider is cited that they must notify their enrolled families, why does that also need to be written in a contract? (aside: not familiar with any legalities so please be gentle with me if I am completely off base) My contract states that I will provide a safe environment but I guess that is open to interpretation, as well.

Op, I would have a conversation with your provider to find out exactly what went on. Maybe it was something "simple" (for lack of better term) as far as the chemicals go. I think the wording of the citation sounds scary but until you ask, you are just going to be guessing. As for the employees not being up to date, maybe they were in progress, maybe it was overlooked. To me this would be a huge issue. Again, talk to your provider. As a parent, I do feel that these are valid concerns. Valid enough to pull out of a legally binding contract? I don't know. I would have a chat with a lawyer.

Good luck. I do feel it is imperative that the parents are able to trust their providers. I would have that chat with your provider and lawyer and take it from there.

[Thriftylady]

Does it have to be stated in the contract that a daycare will following licensing regulations? I mean, for a licensed daycare, isn't that stating the obvious? If licensing states that when a provider is cited that they must notify their enrolled families, why does that also need to be written in a contract? (aside: not familiar with any legalities so please be gentle with me if I am completely off base) My contract states that I will provide a safe environment but I guess that is open to interpretation, as well.

Op, I would have a conversation with your provider to find out exactly what went on. Maybe it was something "simple" (for lack of better term) as far as the chemicals go. I think the wording of the citation sounds scary but until you ask, you are just going to be guessing. As for the employees not being up to date, maybe they were in progress, maybe it was overlooked. To me this would be a huge issue. Again, talk to your provider. As a parent, I do feel that these are valid concerns. Valid enough to pull out of a legally binding contract? I don't know. I would have a chat with a lawyer.

Good luck. I do feel it is imperative that the parents are able to trust their providers. I would have that chat with your provider and lawyer and take it from there.

I very much agree with the bolded. And while I agree that it shouldn't have to be in the contract that licensing rules will be followed, I also think that licensing rules are so vague sometimes that even we as providers have a hard time understanding them sometimes, that reading them on a website can be a nightmare. I have never lived in a place where I was required to notify parents of licensing issues (I never had major ones), so everyplace is different. It could depend on what it is even. I don't know the reg in question so who knows. But speaking to the provider before pulling would be so important here.

[Blackcat31]

I think you would still be obligated to pay the month notice period.

If the child care was truly endangering your child the state would not have issued them written citations but would instead have shut them down.

[nannyde]

Parent provided copy could simply mean posting the notice in a parent accessible area such as a bulletin board at the front entrance. It may not mean physically handing you a copy.

Not having cpr training for some of the staff may he fineable but not a severe deficiency. Also if they complied immediately to correction then proving them unsafe a month later would be tough.

People make mistakes.

The dangerous chemicals could be sunscreen or something the staff didn't know should be locked away.

I think your chances are slim.

[Leigh]

I agree that your chances of winning in court are probably pretty slim. And, since the childcare was cited and fined, any danger to the children has likely been corrected. Many citations are for things that the provider didn't realize were violations and are immediately corrected when the provider becomes aware. As mentioned, even sunscreen could have been the citation for chemicals-setting it on the floor while rubbing it on the skin of one child could be seen as dangerous to others, even though it's still under the control of the adult. Some inspectors are crazy nit picky, and what THEY see wrong isn't necessarily what parents would see wrong.

It sounds to me like you were looking for an excuse to leave without notice, and you took it. Two employees not having CPR is a big deal, but not such a big deal if the center has 15 other employees who are trained. And, it's possible that their certifications were recently expired. I've been trained on CPR since childhood, but if I didn't update that piece of paper, I'd be cited, even though I can prove that I have the skills.

I'm sorry, but I think you'd be wasting your time and money in court (you'll get stuck with paying fees when you lose, on top of your paid notice period). The best I think you could do is try to work out a settlement with the center, though, knowing their likelihood of winning in court, they may not be willing.

[sharlan]

This provider needs to be reported for not following licensing regs.

When you receive a citation, you must post a copy of the LIC809 on the front door during daycare hours for 30 days. You also must have a parent sign a LIC9224 stating that they received a copy of the citation. That form must be kept in the child's file.

As far as getting your money back, that all depends on your contract. Going to small claims is a gamble. I've heard of both sides winning.

[MunchkinWrangler]

Your contract is still enforceable. The wording used on these citations is pretty vague. Some licensors will be more specific others won't. I guess my question would be....did you communicate this to your provider? Or did you just pull and expect to stick it to her? I refuse to go parading with pitchforks because like laundrymom said they could have been very minor things. If this were in process of being remedied and evaluated by licensing this could have been communicated by the provider and if the question was asked to her personally. You are also free to contact licensing as well to have them elaborate further. But sounds like she didn't get that chance....

[spedmommy4]

This provider needs to be reported for not following licensing regs.

When you receive a citation, you must post a copy of the LIC809 on the front door during daycare hours for 30 days. You also must have a parent sign a LIC9224 stating that they received a copy of the citation. That form must be kept in the child's file.

As far as getting your money back, that all depends on your contract. Going to small claims is a gamble. I've heard of both sides winning.

Sharlan is absolutely correct. Failure to follow this was another violation on the part of this provider. Licensing would have explained the obligation to distribute and get signed copies of the violations signed for each child's file.

In California, there is no "late" for background checks. One an employee is background checked, they stay in the system forever. This means the provider knowingly hired people without checking to see if they were safe to work around kids. This would be a serious issue for me as a parent too.

If OP checked her file prior to selecting her and it was good, and then came across this, it's going to be a good argument for failure to continue to meet the standard of care that she thought she was getting when entering into the original contract with the provider.

ETA: you can call licensing and get additional details on the violations, to make a more a more informed decision on how to proceed.

[Unregistered]

To the OP: You did the right thing by pulling your son out. I wouldn't want to place my daughter in any daycare that allows un-background checked staff near her or is careless about chemicals (if it was found in a random inspection, this might have been a recurring issue). Plus not revealing the report to you despite required is shady; provider should have discussed the report with you and promised to fix things.

As for the money; Given the circumstances I don't think the daycare should require it from you. If they do take you to small claims court, you can show the report to the judge and try to convince him the daycare was in breach for not providing a safe environment as it is supposed to. May go either way, depending on the judge and the arguments

[Snowmom]

Have you talked to the licensed provider regarding this?
That's really where you should start.
Just be honest and say you found this information that you're very uncomfortable with, which is why you pulled your child from their care.
Instead of trying to find loopholes to avoid paying fees, maybe you will be able to come to an agreement together.