Child Telling Outrageous Lies...

**Blackcat31** · 02-10-2016, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by daycarediva

I'll try to keep it short. Child is known to fib- I didn't do that, I had it first, etc. even when I know otherwise. Child is also a HUGE tattler. For everything, all day.

He is now accusing my SA dck of asking him to pull down his pants and see his private. This allegedly happened on Friday. Child said nothing to me, nothing to mom all weekend. Child was angry with SA child Monday because SA child refused to play with him. Monday evening child goes home and tells this story to Mom.

This all happened with 3 other dck's present, my 7yo in and out and my 10yo there the entire time, and my 16yo dd at the dining room table doing homework. They were in the dining room, I was in/out in the playroom (big L shape).

Mom says NOTHING to me. Drops off Tuesday without a word. Tells child to speak to me about it Tuesday?! Child does not say a word. SA child is out in the afternoon Tue for an appt, they NEVER had contact Tues.

Tuesday evening Mom drops this ball on me at pickup and stays for 30 minutes discussing it. She essentially interrogates child. I call my own (reliable, trustworthy) 10yo son out to ask him. I ask if anything unusual happened when they were playing together Friday. My son says no. He was with them the entire time. Child's story starts to change. Mom begins to realize child is lying. I tell her I will handle it seriously regardless. I ask ALL of the kids today if anything happened. They say no.

Child comes in this morning- no issue. Child is playing Legos at the Lego table 2 feet from me and says "Iron Man pulled my pants down and licked me!" EVERYONE heard it.

dck's all tattle about potty words (same dcks that were there Friday playing)

I lecture dck about using potty language.

Fast forward to story time. I am cleaning up the table from lunch and overhear dck say to dcg "Pull your pants down so I can see your underwear." and dcg say "NO GROSS! Miss ___________!"

Child is STILL adamant dck did this-- it really isn't possible! and from what I am hearing from his mouth- it's HIM doing it.

I am so done. IMHO- this is above and beyond normalkid lies! I spoke to parents about it, asked all the kids, and I feel like a complete idiot.

WWYD here?! My husband is saying term IMMEDIATELY- his reasoning is what if he had accused ME or my older kids. (dh is never alone/around the kids enough but him as well)

*eta* I know the SA child- has been here 3+ years, is honest and trustworthy and has never done anything like this before.

I'd almost lean towards terminating care too because of the liability but you said mom recognized that he was lying? Do you feel SHE trusts you? What do you think her over all stance on this is?

I would not allow the child access to ANYONE outside YOUR direct line of vision. He would be my shadow 100% of the time he is in care simply because HE cannot be trusted to be alone with anyone and because YOU can't trust that he is telling the truth which put YOU at risk depending on what he chooses to say next and/or depending on how his parents are handling this.

I'd write up a behavior plan and have mom and dad on board with it not only for YOUR protection but for DCB's protection as well.

**Miss A** · 02-10-2016, 10:22 AM

IMHO, he is a huge liability to you and your business, and I would be terming immediately. If it were my child he was asking to see, I would be upset that the provider was allowing for him to remain on property.

**daycarediva** · 02-10-2016, 10:27 AM

I have kept ALL communication with Mom written since the first conversation. She agrees that he is lying, so I have that on record.

I am debating on calling my registrar. What if I term and Mom retaliates?

**Ariana** · 02-10-2016, 10:39 AM

Is something happening somewhere else and he is attributing it to your daycare? For example someone is pulling his pants down etc and he is trying to deal with it by telling his mom and blaming a kid in your care because he feels safer to do so? It can be hard for a child to deal with sexual abuse. Not saying this is what is happening but for some reason red flags are going off for me.

I would 100% talk to mom about the possibility of this happening somewhere else and tell her I am quite concerned why this is suddenly starting and where it is coming from etc. Get ahead of it a bit and then see what happens before terming. IF this is a cry for help it would **** to ignore it.

**Blackcat31** · 02-10-2016, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by daycarediva

I have kept ALL communication with Mom written since the first conversation. She agrees that he is lying, so I have that on record.

I am debating on calling my registrar. What if I term and Mom retaliates?

Talk with your registrar FIRST before terming if you decide to do that.

If you do term, I would be flat out honest with mom and tell her exactly why it's such a huge liability and that if other parents are told those lies by their kid and then that parent comes to you and you have to now address that parent's concerns etc. etc. etc...

It's ALOT to manage just because one child (who I think is plenty old enough to understand lie vs make believe) tells outlandish tales.

**Unregistered** · 02-10-2016, 10:52 AM

Report to registrar, have mom sign notes you've taken then term. Im the same as your dh. Screw that! I'd have so much anxiety!!

**Unregistered** · 02-10-2016, 10:57 AM

Its a big red flag that he would even say that let alone accuse someone else. He has either seen/heard/or experienced something like that. I might report suspected abuse to Child Services.

**NeedaVaca** · 02-10-2016, 11:15 AM

Personally I would term, too much of a liability. I definitely wonder where he is hearing these things and as a parent if my child overheard these things and started repeating them I would find a new provider because I wouldn't want my kids around that ya know? Some things I'm willing to shadow for, this would be crossing my line, to me the risk isn't worth it and I would be on pins and needles all day

Shadowing a child that may hit or bite is one thing, you can keep them from harming kids that way. In this case, shadowing won't keep him from speaking (and other kids hearing) and you never know what he might say next.

**daycarediva** · 02-10-2016, 11:43 AM

The layout of my house and how I run the childcare here make it so that IF I continued care and he was shadowed, he would be limited to playing with my young 3's and under, as the children his age are in my 3 season room and my littles are in the main play space for the afternoon/no school days.

My daycare space is an L shape, the short/bottom of the L is my main play room, and the top of the long side is the end of my dining room/3 season room where my big kid area is. It has french doors that I leave open all the time

He- and everyone else, including kids and parents, would be well aware that he was 'punished' as my big kids are only in there when they are in trouble, or coming in/out the front of the house.

Mom is mortified. She is apologetic and doesn't know WHAT to say or do.

**Josiegirl** · 02-10-2016, 11:49 AM

It would make me very uncomfortable keeping him.

It's so easy for others to pick up those words and bring them home, and pretty soon your clients are dropping like flies.
I don't know how old your dck is and quite possibly nothing has ever happened to him, could be something as simple as hearing a program or whatever and their hearing can kick in so wonderfully when we don't want it to. If he comes in contact with older kids anywhere, he easily could have heard it there. But keeping him in your dc is a giant risk if he's continuing that type of talk.

I have a dcb, think he was 6 at the time so he only came during the summer. But during that summer I also had 4 other dcks older than he was. Three of them were dcgs and were hanging out together, talking and doing 'girl' stuff.

He wanted into that group so bad and when they wouldn't let him in, he came out and told me one of them had touched him inappropriately. I knew in my heart this wasn't true but went to question them, they were shocked at the accusation. There was also a dcb here, I think he was maybe 11 then and he said 6 yo dcb had come out and bragged about what he had told me and that he got the girls in trouble. Man was I ever pi$$ed and he knew it. I sent a note home, dcm and I talked to him about how serious such allegations were. But it was a one-time thing. I told dcm if he ever did it again, he was gone.

**Snowmom** · 02-10-2016, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by daycarediva

I'll try to keep it short. Child is known to fib- I didn't do that, I had it first, etc. even when I know otherwise. Child is also a HUGE tattler. For everything, all day.

He is now accusing my SA dck of asking him to pull down his pants and see his private. This allegedly happened on Friday. Child said nothing to me, nothing to mom all weekend. Child was angry with SA child Monday because SA child refused to play with him. Monday evening child goes home and tells this story to Mom.

This all happened with 3 other dck's present, my 7yo in and out and my 10yo there the entire time, and my 16yo dd at the dining room table doing homework. They were in the dining room, I was in/out in the playroom (big L shape).

Mom says NOTHING to me. Drops off Tuesday without a word. Tells child to speak to me about it Tuesday?! Child does not say a word. SA child is out in the afternoon Tue for an appt, they NEVER had contact Tues.

Tuesday evening Mom drops this ball on me at pickup and stays for 30 minutes discussing it. She essentially interrogates child. I call my own (reliable, trustworthy) 10yo son out to ask him. I ask if anything unusual happened when they were playing together Friday. My son says no. He was with them the entire time. Child's story starts to change. Mom begins to realize child is lying. I tell her I will handle it seriously regardless. I ask ALL of the kids today if anything happened. They say no.

Child comes in this morning- no issue. Child is playing Legos at the Lego table 2 feet from me and says "Iron Man pulled my pants down and licked me!" EVERYONE heard it.

dck's all tattle about potty words (same dcks that were there Friday playing)

I lecture dck about using potty language.

Fast forward to story time. I am cleaning up the table from lunch and overhear dck say to dcg "Pull your pants down so I can see your underwear." and dcg say "NO GROSS! Miss ___________!"

Child is STILL adamant dck did this-- it really isn't possible! and from what I am hearing from his mouth- it's HIM doing it.

I am so done. IMHO- this is above and beyond normalkid lies! I spoke to parents about it, asked all the kids, and I feel like a complete idiot.

WWYD here?! My husband is saying term IMMEDIATELY- his reasoning is what if he had accused ME or my older kids. (dh is never alone/around the kids enough but him as well)

*eta* I know the SA child- has been here 3+ years, is honest and trustworthy and has never done anything like this before.

That bolded part up there.... that's NOT normal.

There is no way I would keep a child in care who speaks about private parts this way with other children I'm responsible for.

**laundrymom** · 02-10-2016, 11:55 AM

I'm with the "something's going on somewhere" group. I know you dont want to seperate him but maybe a little shame will do him good.
When I can't trust you, I can't trust you.
No matter the age, no
Matter the space. If I can't trust you to do or not do something, you don't get the chance to do it.

There is no grey line in my opinion.
He would stay w the babies for a few days and id give him say, 10 minutes w the big kids. Then back to the babies if all went well and if increase time daily until I could trust him again. I wouldn't sugarcoat it. I wouldn't be sneaky about it.
Id point blank tell him::
The reason you must be in the room with me is because you were dishonest and mean. In a few days, if you behave, I'll let you play with your friends again for a little while. If you behave, we can try it for a longer time the next day, but if you tell stories again you are stuck with the babies until summer.
I'd let mom know it is either constant supervision or termination.
As for
Other people finding out,
"Why is Sam in the baby playroom?"
"He just is."
"But, why?"
"Because he is. He's not sick. He just is in here right now."

**Ariana** · 02-10-2016, 12:12 PM

Wow I don't know. What IF he is being abused somewhere and now we are shaming and disciplining him? This is not at all how this should be handled. Lying is one thing but to say "someone pulled down my pants and licked me" is a whole other animal. This might be a cry for help.

I understand wanting to protect yourself, I really do, but what if this child needs help? I would ask some non leading questions at the very least.

**sahm1225** · 02-10-2016, 12:12 PM

His continued comments would worry me that there is abuse or he is witnessing abuse. Comments like that are not typical.

Honestly, I would be considering calling the abuse hotline and letting them investigate.

Another thing that bothers me is that He blamed YOUR older child and mom just told him to talk to you about it. If my child ever said anything like that, I would instantly go and talk to the provider to clear things up. Mom should've followed up instead of letting it go. Which makes me think that A) mom knew it was a lie and rather than discipline her child about lying, she sent him to you to discipline or B) something is going on and mom hoped the child wouldn't bring it up again.