Supporting Fathers

[Cat Herder]

I had an interesting conversation with a fathers rights advocate.

During that exchange it was stated that a common viewpoint of fathers is that childcare providers almost always side with mothers to limit their involvement. He added the belief that mothers were almost always assumed to be good parents while fathers had to "prove it" to us first.

Do you think that is a fair statement? Do you think as a community we do this? If so what can be done to change it?

How do you support fathers relationships with their kids in your business? How educated are you on parental alienation tactics?

[laundrymom]

I gravitate toward the more involved parent for my program. I "bond" with the one I see most. I don't think I always side w one or the other. I do t even think it's biased either way. I seem to be closer to the one I see most.
I'm not educated on Tactics. I didn't even know it was a thing.

[Blackcat31]

I had an interesting conversation with a fathers rights advocate.

During that exchange it was stated that a common viewpoint of fathers is that childcare providers almost always side with mothers to limit their involvement. He added the belief that mothers were almost always assumed to be good parents while fathers had to "prove it" to us first.

Do you think that is a fair statement? Yes, sadly I do think that is a fair statement

Do you think as a community we do this? Yes. Again I feel this is a true and accurate statement


If so what can be done to change it? Education. Knowledge is power

How do you support fathers relationships with their kids in your business?

I am very supportive of fathers and encourage them to be the best parent they can. I have hand outs and resources that I give to fathers about the importance of not only fathers but BOTH parents in a child's life.

I also maintain a little bit of knowledge in regards to things that interest men (in general) so that I can chit chat with them while they pick up and drop off their children. I use phases that support fathers parenting and avoid phrases such as "babysitting" etc. I acknowledge the little things fathers do that need validation and help them see a mother's perspective a little better.

Like most parent provider relationships each one is unique and individual and requires different things.


How educated are you on parental alienation tactics? VERY. Both academically and in real life.

I replied in bold

50% of my parents that do the majority of drop offs/pick ups are dads.
I have 2 full time fathers (one works a 9-5) and the other is a SAHD that bring their children here for services while their spouses work very long hours (one mom is a ER doctor) or away from home all together for long periods of time (travels for work 3-5 overnights a week away from home).

[mommyneedsadayoff]

I think it is very common, as we deal with mostly mothers in many cases. I don't think I d ti, though. If anything, I prefer my dads They pick up when they say they will, pay on time, do quick drop offs and pick ups, and they don't try to micro manage me. They probably take a backseat at home and defer to their wives, but they are involved and not without a say in how their child is raised. In general, though, I think dad's get a bad rap and I think the court system and public opinion te ds to side with the mom, whether it is deserved or not. Not to get too political, but this starts in the womb, because most dad's get no say when a mother wants an abortion. IF the child is born, they have to fight twice as hard to get custody, so I can see why they feel mothers have the upper hand in daycare and in most parental decisions.

[spud912]

I think it is very common, as we deal with mostly mothers in many cases. I don't think I d ti, though. If anything, I prefer my dads They pick up when they say they will, pay on time, do quick drop offs and pick ups, and they don't try to micro manage me. They probably take a backseat at home and defer to their wives, but they are involved and not without a say in how their child is raised. In general, though, I think dad's get a bad rap and I think the court system and public opinion te ds to side with the mom, whether it is deserved or not. Not to get too political, but this starts in the womb, because most dad's get no say when a mother wants an abortion. IF the child is born, they have to fight twice as hard to get custody, so I can see why they feel mothers have the upper hand in daycare and in most parental decisions.

I agree with what mommyneedsadayoff said, unfortunately. The dcd's I've had for the most part are just as involved, if not more so, than the moms.

[e.j.]

Most of my dc dads are/have been very involved parents so for the most part, I view them and my dc moms as equally good parents. If I form any opinion on their parenting behaviors, it's based on their actions vs. the sex of the parent. I've never felt I had to do anything specific to support the relationship between my dcd's and their kids because I haven't seen the need.

As a society in general, though, I think there is prejudice concerning mothers vs. fathers and who parents best. I've watched my brother struggle for years to maintain a relationship with his son from his first marriage. Although I don't have any formal education on parental alienation, I've watched his relationship with his son be destroyed by it. I've also experienced the frustration of speaking to a court appointed guardian ad litem who began his phone call to me saying, "Let's just forget about this garbage about parental alienation; I don't believe in that concept anyway." I used to say to my husband that while I was disgusted by what was happening to my brother and his fight to remain a part of his son's life, I was relieved to know that if he (my husband) ever divorced me, I'd get full custody of our kids and it wouldn't matter if I defied the divorce agreement, refused visitation, made false accusations against him, abused or neglected my kids....I'd always come out the winner in court simply because I am the mother.

[LindseyA]

2 of my 5 DCFs are single sole custody dads and they are amazing! Very respectful, follows all policies, pays on time, etc. It's unfortunate that dads, in general, have a bad rep. Honestly very few have been "bad" that I have known.

[Thriftylady]

I love to see dad's really step up to parenting. Right now I only have one family and she is a single mom. She lives with her boyfriend, who has a son. I have never seen him or the son but knows he drives to the next town two nights a week to pick him up, bring him home and take him back. He sounds awesome to me! I think that it used to be seen as mothers are supposed to do all the kid things but that is changing. I wish I had more training in alienation, because of what is going on with my son and my grandson right now. I would like to turn my son over my knee.

[daycare]

I was not aware of this. Guess I don't know if I do this or not. I do have 2 dad only clients, one of them is the best PARENT I have ever had. You should see the food he can bake..

I guess I don't look at it as gender, I just look at it as are they a good parent or not.

I don't let parents talk poorly about each other and tell them from day one, so I don't ever hear anything negative about what dad do or don't do or vs.

Thanks to BC letter, the divorce letter, I make certain to get that out when they start and I never hear negative things.

I have a son with an absent dad, I don't like him as a person. I can't say he's not a good father, because he has never been one to his son. I have not liked his father since the day I met him.

for your questions. I have never had a situation nor would I ever help any parent that was bringing good things to a child's life would I help push them away, male or female. If they are safe and loving to their child, then bring it on, I don't care what mom wants or dad wants. I only care about what the child wants and at this age they don't know what they want. I stay out of that kind of stuff.

Is it fair for people to do that, No way. People judge my one assistant because he is male and gay. I love him and he is here to stay, so if they don't like it, then we are not the right place for your child.

I don't know as a community if we do this or not, as I would not participate in a conversation like this. I would hope not, but from what I see these days on FB people are harsh and quick to judge before they think about it.

I support relationships no matter the gender.

[Play Care]

I had an interesting conversation with a fathers rights advocate.

During that exchange it was stated that a common viewpoint of fathers is that childcare providers almost always side with mothers to limit their involvement. He added the belief that mothers were almost always assumed to be good parents while fathers had to "prove it" to us first.

Do you think that is a fair statement? Do you think as a community we do this? If so what can be done to change it?

How do you support fathers relationships with their kids in your business? How educated are you on parental alienation tactics?

At the risk of sounding really witchy here, I'm going to point out that the person *most* of use see, talk to on a daily basis is MOM. Because for some reason, a lot of dads think dealing with day care is a MOM's job, IME. The few times I see a Dad it is usually because mom is sick. And then they have this "deer in the headlights" look the whole time...

Now, that said, I love seeing Dad. Usually it means drop off will be quick and painless. And the kids LOVE when Dad picks up for a change. Which means pick up will be quick and painless.
And one of the worst clients I've ever had was a single dcd. BUT, I knew he was still a better parent than his ex-wife (who I knew from when they were together and never cared for).

It always seems as though it's mom's job to deal with child care/run interference with the kids until the relationship goes south. Then all the sudden mom becomes a
"terrible" mom and Dad needs "support"

Frankly, I find it tiresome to be blamed for yet another thing or be asked to do more with/for a parent I rarely see.

[auntymimi]

I was raised by an amazing single dad, my mom passed away when I was a toddler. I fully support dads right and responsibility to be in his child's life. That said, the only clients I have right now are single moms and I have never met the father of any of my dck. One of them is imprisoned, so I guess he can't, but the rest just don't come around. No child support or anything. I know parental alienation exists but it's not the case here (with my clients).

[DaveA]

I had an interesting conversation with a fathers rights advocate.

During that exchange it was stated that a common viewpoint of fathers is that childcare providers almost always side with mothers to limit their involvement. He added the belief that mothers were almost always assumed to be good parents while fathers had to "prove it" to us first.

Do you think that is a fair statement? Do you think as a community we do this? If so what can be done to change it?

How do you support fathers relationships with their kids in your business? How educated are you on parental alienation tactics?

Yes I would say it's a fair statement. I use the phrase "estrogen ocean" to describe the attitude of many daycare providers/ facilities toward men/ fathers. This is "our turf" and males (staff or clients) intrude at their own peril. Often times it's probably an unconscious reinforcing of the stereotype of child rearing/ care as a "woman's job" more so than any overt hostility toward Dads/ male parental figures (that is really pretty rare I hope). As for tactics for improving or preventing I could do a couple of pages but it boils down to 3 things: Treat DCDs like equal parents and not DCM's oldest kid, be professional to all parents (even the dopey/ annoying ones), and establish clear boundaries of being neutral toward both parents, especially in divorce/ custody situations.

I was not aware of this. Guess I don't know if I do this or not. I do have 2 dad only clients, one of them is the best PARENT I have ever had. You should see the food he can bake..

I guess I don't look at it as gender, I just look at it as are they a good parent or not.

I don't let parents talk poorly about each other and tell them from day one, so I don't ever hear anything negative about what dad do or don't do or vs.

Thanks to BC letter, the divorce letter, I make certain to get that out when they start and I never hear negative things.

I have a son with an absent dad, I don't like him as a person. I can't say he's not a good father, because he has never been one to his son. I have not liked his father since the day I met him.

for your questions. I have never had a situation nor would I ever help any parent that was bringing good things to a child's life would I help push them away, male or female. If they are safe and loving to their child, then bring it on, I don't care what mom wants or dad wants. I only care about what the child wants and at this age they don't know what they want. I stay out of that kind of stuff.

Is it fair for people to do that, No way. People judge my one assistant because he is male and gay. I love him and he is here to stay, so if they don't like it, then we are not the right place for your child.

I don't know as a community if we do this or not, as I would not participate in a conversation like this. I would hope not, but from what I see these days on FB people are harsh and quick to judge before they think about it.

I support relationships no matter the gender.

happyfacehappyface

At the risk of sounding really witchy here, I'm going to point out that the person *most* of use see, talk to on a daily basis is MOM. Because for some reason, a lot of dads think dealing with day care is a MOM's job, IME. The few times I see a Dad it is usually because mom is sick. And then they have this "deer in the headlights" look the while time...

Now, that said, I love seeing Dad. Usually it means drop off will be quick and painless. And the kids LOVE when Dad picks up for a change. Which means pick up will be quick and painless.
And one of the worst clients I've ever had was a single dcd. BUT, I knew he was still a better parent than his ex-wife (who I knew from when they were together and never cared for).

But frankly, I find it tiresome to be blamed for yet another thing or be asked to do more with/for a parent I rarely see.

Not going after you, but going to play devil's advocate here. Although each situation is different but the "we deal with the moms" line isn't true as often as it was 20-30 years ago. With my 5 families 2 are 50/50, 2 I deal with DCM more because of work schedule but see DCD any chance they get, and 1 is primarily DCM. As for Dads being more involved at daycare, I ask often "Why would they go someplace they often feel just tolerated or unwelcome?" Daycares are often 100% female so men in there receive a heightened amount of notice (centers more so than homes) even if they are supposed to be there. Frequently DCDs are handed information with the instructions "Give this to DCM" instead of " Discuss this with DCM" At the risk of making a "most men" statement, we're really good at giving people the view they project. Treat me like I don't know what I'm doing with my own kid and you will get incompetent/ annoying sitcom Dad.

As for taking "blame" none given. Regarding not seeing one parent more: unless there is a practical answer like schedule a program is not seeing the DCDs, there's probably a reason. It very well might not be you. It could be family attitudes or blowback from previous negative experiences. But that doesn't make us as an industry blameless or lacking regarding a far too prevalent attitude towards men and children.

[childcaremom]

I think things are improving but I still think that fathers get the short end of the stick.

I only know one father who was awarded full custody of his child and that was a long, drawn out experience. It was clear that he was the better choice but man. Obstacles after obstacles.

All of my dcks are from 2 parent households. All of the dcds are involved in parenting and pick up and drop offs equally. During interviews, the dcds were as involved in the questioning and input.

I don't think I treat either dcp differently, depending on whether or not it is the mom or dad. To me, they are just a parent.

Maybe it is the dynamics within the household that affect how each parent is viewed. If the mom is more assertive, and dad defers to her, in the presence of the provider.... then maybe that is why?

Maybe providers defer to the parent that they interact with the most. If I only saw mom, I would approach her first if I had issues, and vice versa. I have no problem talking to either parent as I see them both equally.

I don't know. It's an interesting observation.

I always ask to have both parents present during interviews so that each of them have a chance to observe and listen and each of them often have different concerns. I don't always ask each one separately what their concerns are but both will usually have their own questions. I do address each parent during the interview and don't just 'talk' to mom over dad, or vice versa. If only mom can make it during the initial interview, I do offer to meet again for a short visit so that dad can meet me. I've done that twice for families. I actually prefer to meet both parents ahead of time and most parents prefer that.

I only used daycare for a short time but both times I was the one doing the majority of pick up and drop offs and therefore the one that was approached with issues. Now with the afterschool program, my dh and I both do equal pick ups/drop offs and we are both approached with any issues or concerns.

I guess I would have to ask my dh, though, to get a proper and valid idea of how he felt. It would be interesting to hear from other dads and how they felt.

[mommyneedsadayoff]

I really like when dcds pick up or drop off. I enjoy getting to know them, but find that they tend to drop and run. It is a little more difficult to carry on a conversation with the dads I have (which is good some days when I just want kids to leave), and meanwhile, dcm is asking me inane questions and sets up shop in my doorway asking about what color dcks poops were that day, ect. I have never been unwelcome to dad and my dcks love it when their daddy picks up. Kind of sad that it is a special treat for them, but most of the time, I deal with dcm.

I can definitely see how daycares may contribute to an attitude towards men, but ime, that all starts at home. It starts with mom doing most of the daycare stuff and making comments about daddy not knowing how to handle dck or get her ready for dc and so on... We pick up on that and may pull out kid gloves when dealing with dad. I don't think it is meant to be hurtful or treat them like they have no clue. Like when grandma picks up, dcm will ask me if I can help install the carseat and write out dcgs schedule or whatever, because grandma is not used to picking up and caring for dck. Of course, grandma raised dcm, so I am sure she could figure it out , but my point is that whenever dcd has been treated like he doesn't know what he is doing, it started at home with his wife. I think, as providers, we can just do our best to treat them all with respect, but honestly, I am in this for the money and so I am going to make more of an effort to keep the parent I see the most and who seems to be the one in "charge" of daycare, the happiest. It sounds harsh, but if dad is upset about not being included in all the dc stuff, he needs to speak to his wife and be apart of the issue, not point fingers at everyone else. When my kids were born, my husband deferred to me on how to do stuff, but he wanted to learn and be apart of it all, so he made the effort to learn. He took them to the doc and still does. He makes them breakfast every weekend so I can sleep in and gets them dressed and ready for church. I would hate to see him treated as less than, just because he is a male, but so far he has not had that experience. If anything, he gets big smiles and looks of admiration for taking care of his own kids. I never get that pat on the back for doing what I am supposed to be doing. I get dirty looks if my kid cries and whenever a kid is out of control, most people say "where is his mother!" So, my point is that I wish it could be more equal and someday it will be, but for now, dad's probably feel they are not included or treated as incompetent, and mom's feel like they have to do it all or get blamed for every little thing their kid does. And as of right now, the umber of kids living with single moms is way bigger than those with single dads, so as that number begins to even out (hopefully with the justice system helping dads get custody when they want to be involved), I think we will start to encounter more dads and hopefully we can break the stereotype one family at a time.

I think I had too much coffee, because i did not plan to write such a long post!

[Snowmom]

Eh. A parent is a parent to me.
I have good ones and some not so good ones. There are Moms I love, Moms I loathe, Dads I love, Dads I loathe.
Each family is different.

I will say most of my texts and other forms of communication during daycare hours are usually from the Mom.
However, if I need to reach out to a child's parent for something, I make sure I email or text both. If it's an emergency, I always make sure I ASK and KNOW which one is more likely to be available during the day- so I never assume Mom or Dad in any situation.