Tell Me about Your First Time

[Thriftylady]

Yup I termed a SA boy who was so rude and disrespectful, it was awful. He started rubbing off on the others and that was it. That kid could have used some corner time at home in addition to here But instead mom never said no, never corrected behavior, let dcb choose everything from bedtimes to dinner (even if she had already cooked, if he said he wanted something else they'd have to run right out to the store so she could make it) the list goes on. He was a big reason I stopped doing SA care. Too many kids act like this now.

Oh and jackets aren't a choice here either. If it's 35 degrees out, you wear a coat. Most say "oh they'll put it on when they get cold"... And sure some will, but some will play happily without it for whatever reason and that poses way too much of a risk. For providers and the child.

Oh for sure if it is that cold you wouldn't go out without a coat, in my post I didn't mean to imply that. I am only posting from the range of what my weather is right now in the upper 50s and 60's. Here it is common for people to go without coats and jackets in that weather, but some people are chilly. I would never say do something abusive and 35-40 would be on that line if not crossing it. But I also know that in many states licensing says you have to take the children outside. In that case when you are a single provider, you can't leave one inside to read or write. So I guess I don't know what you do if it is cold in that situation other than call the parent for pick up.

[Thriftylady]

If you think I was talking about redirection and positive/negative reinforcement in my post regarding proper training, I'm not. Those aren't even what is taught in a current, reputable class on guidance. Literally, take a class. Stop trying old techniques from before people knew how children and human psychology develops. I have a serious question for those of you who like 'the corner' and demand a higher level of respect from children than from adults: can you honestly say where did you get the idea of doing 'the corner'? If it came from your parent or a teacher, where do you think THEY got the idea? And so on and so forth. How far back do you think it goes and why did those first adults use it? Do you really feel that those traditions and ideas, and ideals, are those really aligned with your beliefs? Have you ever heard of the old 'go and pick a switch'? I have. It was meant for me to go pick a light long whip of a branch from a tree for my parent to hit me with. It was (and maybe still is) a common form of getting respect and punishng kids. Where do you think my parents learned it, and theirs?.. It makes no sense to carry on with things just because that's what a precious generation did. It's hard because its imprinted in your family life from birth, but we must reflect on and change what isn't right. If we don't, what really is the point of it all?

I had to do both those things growing up. I don't do them now, but I turned out okay living with them. In our generation of growing up, going to the corner was really the same as a time out. It just isn't accepted today. I don't understand why I just know we can't really do it anymore. I don't see how that is more demeaning than a time out chair. I mean all the other kids still know you are in time out, so I don't get it. Yes, different generations do things differently but I am not sure one is better or worse. I almost think that kids wouldn't be so unruly if so many parents didn't believe in just letting kids do whatever they want though.

[Blackcat31]

As difficult as it is for you to hear, you are going about the guidance of young children in the wrong way. I can tell you don't want to hear anything but your way by the response you gave to the previous post. Contrary to what you said, the previous poster does know the sort of situation you're talking about. She also knows your response is incorrect and will get you no where. Putting children in corners for making the wrong choices is not the way you get respect. Furthermore, you are giving the child the wrong choices to choose from and setting you both up for failure. You really do need to learn guidance techniques from a reputable source (NAEYC or a college accredited course or a course promoted by your county or something- not an online thing that looks good to you- anyone can write an online thing). Is putting kids in the corner even legal according to lisencing standards?!
Maybe if you do term over this, hopefully the boy will land in the hands of a provider who can take care of him- all of him- not just making him wear a jacket. But teaching him he is important, his thoughts and feelings count for something. And that he can care about others and do kind things and make small compromises without losing face and that it's okay to make mistakes.
Either way, term or not, I hope you at least consider thinking about changing your approach. I'm sure this whole message will receive plenty of eye rolls (!) from you, but I feel angry for the dcb.

Similar to guiding children, we also need to spend more time actually guiding caregivers in appropriate responses and actions verses simply admonishing them for everything you feel they are doing wrong.

I did not see one single supportive suggestion or a single alternate option given to this provider. Is that helpful in any way?

Instead, I hear/read "You are bad. You are doing it wrong. Shame on you."

Which is kind of exactly what you are saying she incorrectly said/did to DCB.

You may feel angry for DCB but I feel angry for the provider.

[finsup]

Oh for sure if it is that cold you wouldn't go out without a coat, in my post I didn't mean to imply that. I am only posting from the range of what my weather is right now in the upper 50s and 60's. Here it is common for people to go without coats and jackets in that weather, but some people are chilly. I would never say do something abusive and 35-40 would be on that line if not crossing it. But I also know that in many states licensing says you have to take the children outside. In that case when you are a single provider, you can't leave one inside to read or write. So I guess I don't know what you do if it is cold in that situation other than call the parent for pick up.

Yeah those temps make it tricky! I almost prefer either hot or cold, no middle ground . For 50s-60s I generally say kids have to wear a coat outside but if they get warm while playing they can take it off. I figure that way they get used to putting it on every time, and will have it out there if they need it.

[finsup]

If you think I was talking about redirection and positive/negative reinforcement in my post regarding proper training, I'm not. Those aren't even what is taught in a current, reputable class on guidance. Literally, take a class. Stop trying old techniques from before people knew how children and human psychology develops. I have a serious question for those of you who like 'the corner' and demand a higher level of respect from children than from adults: can you honestly say where did you get the idea of doing 'the corner'? If it came from your parent or a teacher, where do you think THEY got the idea? And so on and so forth. How far back do you think it goes and why did those first adults use it? Do you really feel that those traditions and ideas, and ideals, are those really aligned with your beliefs? Have you ever heard of the old 'go and pick a switch'? I have. It was meant for me to go pick a light long whip of a branch from a tree for my parent to hit me with. It was (and maybe still is) a common form of getting respect and punishng kids. Where do you think my parents learned it, and theirs?.. It makes no sense to carry on with things just because that's what a precious generation did. It's hard because its imprinted in your family life from birth, but we must reflect on and change what isn't right. If we don't, what really is the point of it all?

I've taken far more classes then I care to remember . In addition to 15+ years of professional experience and a degree in Early Childhood. I suspect many on here have similar records. I have to ask though, are kids today more respectful to adults and each other? More polite? More considerate? I have a very hard time answering yes to that. I personally value the advice from older generations, and am thankful for the discipline my parents gave me. My husband would say the same about his childhood and he's older then me. I would rather trust the methods used that worked then a "new" idea that doesn't seem to be doing much for kids or providers.

[Unregistered]

Because, BC, I said to take a class and where to find a class. If I told her specifics like I have done before, they all have a meltdown! I feel like giving up, but at the same time, I want them to know that what they are doing is wrong. These are adults and not children and they aren't in my care, under my control, and stuck with no escape. They can say, hm, maybe I'll look I to it. That's the best I can hope for. If they don't, they don't. I'm not going to spell it all out again and again just to be complained at. And the responses that have nothing to do with what I'm talking about. They're like oh no I won't redirect or reinforce or a time out chair which is another thing no one would teach if these providers would just take ONE single class in child development. It just becomes beyond frustrating because it seems they just don't care about doing a good job at something important. We're not stocking shelves here, we're shaping lives. Look at guidance on the website for NAEYC. I said that, I'm saying it again.

[Blackcat31]

I've taken far more classes then I care to remember . In addition to 15+ years of professional experience and a degree in Early Childhood. I suspect many on here have similar records. I have to ask though, are kids today more respectful to adults and each other? More polite? More considerate? I have a very hard time answering yes to that. I personally value the advice from older generations, and am thankful for the discipline my parents gave me. My husband would say the same about his childhood and he's older then me. I would rather trust the methods used that worked then a "new" idea that doesn't seem to be doing much for kids or providers.

I too, have a degree and years of experience in Early Childhood and feel that sometimes kids need to learn things the hard way verses the gentle, guided approaches that most ECE educators suggest if those approaches are not working and the parents are not at all on board with curbing those negative behaviors that not only affect the provider but the other kids in attendance as well.

The NAEYC does not always take in to consideration the individual aspects of the situation not to mention that a majority of the methods they recommend are applied to early childhood classrooms that are set up to be developmentally appropriate for the specific age group they serve. The methods don't always apply to family childcare and care being given in a single family home.

[Blackcat31]

Because, BC, I said to take a class and where to find a class. If I told her specifics like I have done before, they all have a meltdown! I feel like giving up, but at the same time, I want them to know that what they are doing is wrong. These are adults and not children and they aren't in my care, under my control, and stuck with no escape. They can say, hm, maybe I'll look I to it. That's the best I can hope for. If they don't, they don't. I'm not going to spell it all out again and again just to be complained at. And the responses that have nothing to do with what I'm talking about. They're like oh no I won't redirect or reinforce or a time out chair which is another thing no one would teach if these providers would just take ONE single class in child development. It just becomes beyond frustrating because it seems they just don't care about doing a good job at something important. We're not stocking shelves here, we're shaping lives. Look at guidance on the website for NAEYC. I said that, I'm saying it again.

But you are forgetting that not all the providers here are early childhood educators. Many of them are simply stay at home mom's trying to make an income. Many of them are providing good quality care and not necessarily concerned with educational aspects....which isn't required for FAMILY child care.

The OP isn't a preschool. She's family daycare. We cant' expect every single provider to know the proper methods or know the right or wrong in their actions. We simply can't. NOT when the face of child care is so diverse.

It's not appropriate.

If the OP serves preschool and under children then the child she is venting about should really not be there but because she is FAMILY care she needs to have some support and guidance in HOW to effectively operate so that she IS doing things in the best interest of ALL parties involved....not just according to the NAEYC.

[Rockgirl]

Because, BC, I said to take a class and where to find a class. If I told her specifics like I have done before, they all have a meltdown! I feel like giving up, but at the same time, I want them to know that what they are doing is wrong. These are adults and not children and they aren't in my care, under my control, and stuck with no escape. They can say, hm, maybe I'll look I to it. That's the best I can hope for. If they don't, they don't. I'm not going to spell it all out again and again just to be complained at. And the responses that have nothing to do with what I'm talking about. They're like oh no I won't redirect or reinforce or a time out chair which is another thing no one would teach if these providers would just take ONE single class in child development. It just becomes beyond frustrating because it seems they just don't care about doing a good job at something important. We're not stocking shelves here, we're shaping lives. Look at guidance on the website for NAEYC. I said that, I'm saying it again.

Personally, your delivery would make me not value your advice if I were the OP. I'm much more apt to accept ideas from someone who presents them in a constructive manner, vs condescending. Just me, though.

[Thriftylady]

But you are forgetting that not all the providers here are early childhood educators. Many of them are simply stay at home mom's trying to make an income. Many of them are providing good quality care and not necessarily concerned with educational aspects....which isn't required for FAMILY child care.

The OP isn't a preschool. She's family daycare. We cant' expect every single provider to know the proper methods or know the right or wrong in their actions. We simply can't. NOT when the face of child care is so diverse.

It's not appropriate.

If the OP serves preschool and under children then the child she is venting about should really not be there but because she is FAMILY care she needs to have some support and guidance in HOW to effectively operate so that she IS doing things in the best interest of ALL parties involved....not just according to the NAEYC.

To this point, I find mixing age groups the hardest part of being a home daycare provider. Isn't this the exact reason many won't take SA kids? I myself either want all SA or all preschool if I get to choose. It is so hard to mix them and I think is is much of the issue the OP is having. It is hard for one person to cater to both groups. I am not sure any amount of classes and trainings can make that aspect easier.

[Blackcat31]

To this point, I find mixing age groups the hardest part of being a home daycare provider. Isn't this the exact reason many won't take SA kids? I myself either want all SA or all preschool if I get to choose. It is so hard to mix them and I think is is much of the issue the OP is having. It is hard for one person to cater to both groups. I am not sure any amount of classes and trainings can make that aspect easier.

Yes! That is my point exactly!

NOTHING in all my years of college, nothing written in the NAEYC code of ethics, philosophy statements or DAP approaches to guidance, nothing in any of my college textbooks or in any of my years of experience working in Head Start or in family childcare really addresses appropriate guidance, discipline and/or methods of caring for and teaching in a mixed age group, alone and with no support from the family itself.

That is something even veteran providers with years of experience struggle with and no two situations are ever the same.

[Unregistered]

Oh my god putting a child in the corner is not crime .can I ask what she did that was so bad she gave choicess she did not force or anything like that and she gave a consequences for his actions. Sounds good to me.really u say dont make him wear the jacket , this may sound harsh but really she is the provider she is the boss and has the right to make him wear that jacket she is looking out for whats best for the children she is doing her job.now if it was cold and the parents seen him without a jacket then she would be in trouble and have to hear from the parents.

I put children in the corner also, they hate it. The warning should be enough for them to fall in line... or go to the corner. You could try taking away big kid privileges. Have him take a nap when he acts like this? He may need the extra sleep??
Disrespectfulness is a major pet peeve of mine. You will be punished. Unacceptable in daycare, school and the real world.
Swearing... just wait until you have another dck swear at home and tell his parents where he heard it...

I agree with saying he has out grown your program. Is he in kg? Check into some after school programs to talk about when you have the talk with dcp.

[mommyneedsadayoff]

If you think I was talking about redirection and positive/negative reinforcement in my post regarding proper training, I'm not. Those aren't even what is taught in a current, reputable class on guidance. Literally, take a class. Stop trying old techniques from before people knew how children and human psychology develops. I have a serious question for those of you who like 'the corner' and demand a higher level of respect from children than from adults: can you honestly say where did you get the idea of doing 'the corner'? If it came from your parent or a teacher, where do you think THEY got the idea? And so on and so forth. How far back do you think it goes and why did those first adults use it? Do you really feel that those traditions and ideas, and ideals, are those really aligned with your beliefs? Have you ever heard of the old 'go and pick a switch'? I have. It was meant for me to go pick a light long whip of a branch from a tree for my parent to hit me with. It was (and maybe still is) a common form of getting respect and punishng kids. Where do you think my parents learned it, and theirs?.. It makes no sense to carry on with things just because that's what a precious generation did. It's hard because its imprinted in your family life from birth, but we must reflect on and change what isn't right. If we don't, what really is the point of it all?

Child development has been studied for almost a 100 years and you are basically saying that we cannot use the generations before us as a means to care for children in today's world. Wouldn't the same be said about YOUR ways in another 10-30 years? You say the old ways are wrong, so give it another decade and we will see how your ways ave worked out. So far, the whole gentle, "lets not upset little Jimmy" approach has done nothing for improving behavior in our children. Which is why I don't do it. I expect respect and I give it to my children, but they are children and need to learn exactly how that two way street operates and it is my job to teach them.

Most of us in the 30+ age group were taught how to raise kids by our parents ad grandparents. Many young parents today do not have that background and rely on courses like you describe to learn how to care for their special little child. If anything, I have seen a decline in child behavior in my 17 years of experience. It is perfectly fine to validate a child's feelings and use words, rather than punishment to teach better behavior. The op used words by giving dcb a choice in his situation. He was given every chance to make a good choice and he didn't. He chose to use bad behavior and deal with the consequence. School, college, and the real world will probably not give him those choices and they really don't care how he feels about it. You can either prepare him for that world, or keep preparing for a world that does not exist. And then wait to see if he succeeds. Many kids who are being raised under the notion that they are special, find out very quickly that they are not. And that is an okay lesson to learn early. My kids are part of our family. They are not the center of it.

You can feel however you want and do things however you want, but don't say everyone else who came before you is wrong. That is down right rude and disrespectful to many other providers. It is the exact opposite of what you say should be done with children, so if you are gonna preach it, then live it!

[ChelseaB]

If you think I was talking about redirection and positive/negative reinforcement in my post regarding proper training, I'm not. Those aren't even what is taught in a current, reputable class on guidance. Literally, take a class. Stop trying old techniques from before people knew how children and human psychology develops. I have a serious question for those of you who like 'the corner' and demand a higher level of respect from children than from adults: can you honestly say where did you get the idea of doing 'the corner'? If it came from your parent or a teacher, where do you think THEY got the idea? And so on and so forth. How far back do you think it goes and why did those first adults use it? Do you really feel that those traditions and ideas, and ideals, are those really aligned with your beliefs? Have you ever heard of the old 'go and pick a switch'? I have. It was meant for me to go pick a light long whip of a branch from a tree for my parent to hit me with. It was (and maybe still is) a common form of getting respect and punishng kids. Where do you think my parents learned it, and theirs?.. It makes no sense to carry on with things just because that's what a precious generation did. It's hard because its imprinted in your family life from birth, but we must reflect on and change what isn't right. If we don't, what really is the point of it all?

Am I to understand from this that children are more well behaved now with these changed expectations and regulations? That these "new and improved" methods are superior and work better? With what I have witnessed both professionally and personally, I am HORRIFIED by how children act today. And the adults that they turn into are often even more frightening. There is a BIG difference between discipline and abuse. I was personally spanked, belted, whipped, stuck in the corner, etc. but I was also shown love for the actions I did right. As a result, I am a respectful and strong, independent woman.

I am not condoning spanking or hitting (obviously this is never something I would even consider doing to someone else's child). I do, however, believe in consequences for misbehaving. And I very clearly outline my expectations in my policies. If parents agree with me, they sign on with me. If they don't, they're free to walk. No one didn't sign on because they disagreed with my disciplinary actions.

As someone else stated, rather than demeaning people, you could have offered advice and input. Is pointing at someone, telling them, "you're wrong!" the most effective way to help someone? When they're already asking for help? Because that's how I read your posts.

But I suppose I am nothing but an undereducated, clueless individual and need to take more classes because of my differing views.

[Unregistered]

your headline had my eyes popping out I couldn't read the rest....

so funny


I will go back and read now
::::::::

Me too!!