Preschoolers in Diapers. . .

[daycare]

Maturity of the anal and bladder sphincter's is only ONE part of a multi-facet process.

Along WITH sphincter maturity a child must posses maturity and/or ability in several other areas as well.

Emotional
Verbal
Cognitive
Motor
Social

Again, just because a child is physiologically ready to be potty trained does not mean that she/he has the other skills required.

It's just like any other age. MORE than ONE skill is required and the amount of time it takes to master ALL those skills and the time in which it takes to do that cannot be narrowed down to a specific age. Stating kids are ready to be trained at 18-24 months is simply untrue and unfair to every single child out there that didn't get their first tooth right at 6 months or didn't take their first step at 12 months.

We all know that window of time is MUCH larger than what is suggested as "average".

Maturity of their bodies can't be pushed or hurried. It ALL comes in time.

Allowing kids to have sippy cups until they are 5 or allowing children to eat nasty diets or not having a schedule for eat, sleep and play will definitely have an impact on the training process but those things are changeable influences....they aren't biological.

I agree with you, but I don't agree that kids are being left in diapers at the age of 3-4.

I don't want to start a great debate about this, but the USA one of the only countries that practice the method of leaving a child in diapers until this late of an age.

I am a firm believer that a child can be taught to do almost anything if we take the time and guide them. If they are not ready, that's ok, we can stop and try again at a later time.

All of my kids rode a bike without trainers by the time they were 2
All of my kids were pt by the time they were 2.5
All of my kids did not take a bottle, by 8 months
All of my kids ate with proper tableware by age 12months

My sister was the same with her own kids.
I am not saying this makes us better parents, i am saying that it happened because we took the time to teach them and didn't limit their abilities.

I believe that a child does something when they have been taught and they are ready. NOt because they are a certain age.
not everyone is going to want to wait 3 years to PT.

when we miss that window of opportunity, it's not the end of the world, but we are keeping them in diapers and helping them to for a habit of using a diaper instead of encouraging them to use the toilet. i see it no different than the encouraging I do to have them read books.

[NightOwl]

I understand what you're saying BC and I agree that starting too early only creates a battle zone, but where's the line in the sand? My nephew, for example. He had the bladder control, the verbal skills, the over all maturity, yet he was pushing 4 when he finally trained. And he did it because I told him he would be cleaning himself up, not me. He was clearly yanking his mom's chain about this. He could've easily been trained a full year earlier had she taken some initiative and read the signs.

[mommyneedsadayoff]

BINGO!! Kid was ready. Kid pretty much took care of it himself. No stress, no bribing, no interval training......

Toilet training shouldn't be a month long process... it really should only take a couple days before being totally trained. But ONLY if ALL the required needs have been met.

This is child-led. Nice example.

Thanks BC! That was my post, just keep forgetting to log in And considering I rarely ever get to go to the bathroom alone anymore, they had plenty of examples of bathrooms behavior, so they just sort of naturally became curious. When I first became a mom, I felt stressed about the whole potty issue, which is why I decided to just take it off my list of things to worry about. I think new parents get worried though, because the push for potty training by 2 is a big hurdle to deal with for many parents and they feel so much pressure, which I am sure gets passed off to the child. It is kind of funny, though, because like with my sister, she started at 2 years old and it has not been going well, but she would always ask me if I had started yet, and I would just say "not yet" and shrug and I think she thought I was nuts The funny part is that I am super strict about discipline, approprite social behavior, manners, ect, which my sister is NOT, but making sure her 2 year old is potty trained is of super importance! I am like, "my niece is throwing toys at my dog, so maybe we should focus more on appropraite behavior than on the potty". Seems like that is becoming more common, though. New parents are so much more worried about potty training at a young age than they are about teaching their children how to act in public, how to accomplish basic skills, like cleaning up after themsleves, basic manners and how to respect other people and not hit, kick, or bite, ect. I guess I feel the opposite. They will figure out the potty training stuff, but if you don't establish those other basic skills and behaviors from a young age, it will only get more and more difficult as they get older. Just my two cents

[Blackcat31]

I understand what you're saying BC and I agree that starting too early only creates a battle zone, but where's the line in the sand? My nephew, for example. He had the bladder control, the verbal skills, the over all maturity, yet he was pushing 4 when he finally trained. And he did it because I told him he would be cleaning himself up, not me. He was clearly yanking his mom's chain about this. He could've easily been trained a full year earlier had she taken some initiative and read the signs.

I am not disagreeing with this concept (I know lazy parenting delays the process) but 'parents that don't really parent' is a completely different topic and has nothing to do with physical development.

I could be THE perfect parent. Doing everything right. Guiding and disciplining my child, setting up good eating and sleeping routines and all the other things "perfect" parents do but it will have NO effect whatsoever on when the child acquires the skills necessary to be trained.

In my opinion, only a SMALL percentage of kids still in diapers at an older age is due to lazy parenting.

The rest is developmental....nature NOT nurture.

We cannot control 'nature'.

We can impact 'nurture' but it is still only part of a bigger picture.

[Blackcat31]

Thanks BC! That was my post, just keep forgetting to log in And considering I rarely ever get to go to the bathroom alone anymore, they had plenty of examples of bathrooms behavior, so they just sort of naturally became curious. When I first became a mom, I felt stressed about the whole potty issue, which is why I decided to just take it off my list of things to worry about. I think new parents get worried though, because the push for potty training by 2 is a big hurdle to deal with for many parents and they feel so much pressure, which I am sure gets passed off to the child. It is kind of funny, though, because like with my sister, she started at 2 years old and it has not been going well, but she would always ask me if I had started yet, and I would just say "not yet" and shrug and I think she thought I was nuts The funny part is that I am super strict about discipline, approprite social behavior, manners, ect, which my sister is NOT, but making sure her 2 year old is potty trained is of super importance! I am like, "my niece is throwing toys at my dog, so maybe we should focus more on appropraite behavior than on the potty". Seems like that is becoming more common, though. New parents are so much more worried about potty training at a young age than they are about teaching their children how to act in public, how to accomplish basic skills, like cleaning up after themsleves, basic manners and how to respect other people and not hit, kick, or bite, ect. I guess I feel the opposite. They will figure out the potty training stuff, YES! but if you don't establish those other basic skills and behaviors from a young age, it will only get more and more difficult as they get older. Just my two cents

I agree! I think the underlined part is what "Daycare" is trying to say but like you just said....the training part is on them (the child).....WHEN they are ready. That is what I think some posters are confused about. Two different topics. Related (as all childhood things are) but two totally different things.

[laundrymom]

I don't mind. My policy specifically states that
I do not push to potty learn. That children will learn faster when they are developmentally able to do it and no amount of coaxing is going to help them potty learn (I do not use the word train. They learn it. I don't train them) and faster. I promise that barring a medical issue they will learn to potty before prom.

Of course, when they are physically able to GET themselves on toilet, they go when the rest of the group does.

[spedmommy4]

Here is the current research from the American Academy of Pediatrics, if anyone is interested.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2008/1101/p1059.html

I found a few things interesting. The research says that the US is one of the few countries where the average age of potty training is going up. It cites availability of disposable diapers and family work schedules as factors. It also says that most kids attain all developmental readiness skills is 25 months.

In my professional experience, family participation is a huge factor. I worked with families in their homes as a parent trainer for 6 years. 100% of the families I worked with asked about potty training and only about 75% ended up actively working on it. Parents are busy and I see adaptive skills taking the biggest hit. (Toilet training, dressing, using an open cup, etc) The adaptive skills seem to fall by the wayside and I spend a lot of time working on them here.

There are other factors at play for some kids, but my primary concern is that if I don't set any guidelines, I will be lifting typically developing 5 year olds up onto the changing table.

[Crazy8]

I agree with BC - the process is MUCH easier when a child has all the readiness signs and I would never push a child due to their age BUT I also think "lazy parenting" contributes to a lot of children who COULD be trained with a little guidance from their parents who just don't want to put in the effort. I had a parent ask me for PT advice and I mentioned staying home for a few days to really focus on it (meaning not going out to stores, etc. - not staying home from daycare) and she said she was going to give it a try over a long weekend. Well came in the following week and said her husband thought it was ridiculous to STAY HOME all weekend so they didn't bother. They basically just wanted me to do it M-F and then they could just take over for 2-3 hours a night they were home with the child.
I generally see the opposite in my care though, of parents who want to push training too early because the child is so big or they have a new baby coming, etc. and that can really delay the process of what should only take a few days when a child is ready.

[Blackcat31]

Here is the current research from the American Academy of Pediatrics, if anyone is interested.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2008/1101/p1059.html

I found a few things interesting. The research says that the US is one of the few countries where the average age of potty training is going up. It cites availability of disposable diapers and family work schedules as factors. It also says that most kids attain all developmental readiness skills is 25 months.

In my professional experience, family participation is a huge factor. I worked with families in their homes as a parent trainer for 6 years. 100% of the families I worked with asked about potty training and only about 75% ended up actively working on it. Parents are busy and I see adaptive skills taking the biggest hit. (Toilet training, dressing, using an open cup, etc) The adaptive skills seem to fall by the wayside and I spend a lot of time working on them here.

There are other factors at play for some kids, but my primary concern is that if I don't set any guidelines, I will be lifting typically developing 5 year olds up onto the changing table.

Thanks for the link...it supports what I was/am trying to say:

*Newer studies suggest no benefit of intensive training before 27 months of age.

*Mastery of the developmental skills required for toilet training occurs after 24 months of age


So AFTER a child turns 27 months, they should be easily trained without much intervention or fanfare from the caregiver.

However, IF the child does not have the developmental skills necessary (due to lazy parents or not being taught or for whatever reason...) BY 27 months, the learning process will be difficult and time consuming for all.

So according to what the AAP says, toilet learning can begin at about 27 months (give or take like any other age recommendation).

[Kabob]

When I was young, I wet my bed until I was about 8. I was ashamed of it and of course didn't do it on purpose. My mom acted like I did do it on purpose and actively shamed me for it. It made me afraid to sleep over anywhere and I remember my mom making me read books on holding my bladder at night. I had no clue what she was talking about. I just would wake up wet. Then one day I suddenly started waking up when I needed to go. That's it. I don't wet my bed anymore.

My ds is 3.5 and still not going on the toilet regularly. He'll try but he just isn't verbalizing anything...he only recently started to tell me when he pooped his diaper. Underwear just scares him. He actually didn't start talking until after he was 2 due to medical reasons...and he still is working on speaking clearly in sentences and struggles with understanding directions sometimes.

So, I decided to not force the issue since he still is mastering other important things...like talking. I feel bad when my family gives me grief over it but trust me...I tried to push him and it did me no good...lesson learned...I can't make a child poop.

[Unregistered]

When I was young, I wet my bed until I was about 8. I was ashamed of it and of course didn't do it on purpose. My mom acted like I did do it on purpose and actively shamed me for it. It made me afraid to sleep over anywhere and I remember my mom making me read books on holding my bladder at night. I had no clue what she was talking about. I just would wake up wet. Then one day I suddenly started waking up when I needed to go. That's it. I don't wet my bed anymore.

My ds is 3.5 and still not going on the toilet regularly. He'll try but he just isn't verbalizing anything...he only recently started to tell me when he pooped his diaper. Underwear just scares him. He actually didn't start talking until after he was 2 due to medical reasons...and he still is working on speaking clearly in sentences and struggles with understanding directions sometimes.

So, I decided to not force the issue since he still is mastering other important things...like talking. I feel bad when my family gives me grief over it but trust me...I tried to push him and it did me no good...lesson learned...I can't make a child poop.

May I ask you a question? My sister's nephew is 13 and wets the bed almost every night. They have taken him to the doctor and there is no medical reason for this. His mom is the sort that gets mad and has probably shamed him for it (I think they started PT when he was 2 or 3), so I am not sure if she has really helped the situation, so much as she has made it worse. She tells him he has to clean it up, but doesn't follow through, so their basement reeks like urine. This is also an issue for his sister who is 9, but not quite as bad. They have tried an alarm to wake him up at night, but he sleeps like the dead, and quite honestly, I think they are too lazy to get up and go wake him up to go. I feel bad for him, though, because he won't spend the night with his friends and it is definitely effecting his social life. Any advice on how to handle this? I dobt his mom will listen but maybe I can offer some hints in a subtle way. It is just so out of hand at this point, that I am really worried about it and he is not even my family!

[laundrymom]

May I ask you a question? My sister's nephew is 13 and wets the bed almost every night. They have taken him to the doctor and there is no medical reason for this. His mom is the sort that gets mad and has probably shamed him for it (I think they started PT when he was 2 or 3), so I am not sure if she has really helped the situation, so much as she has made it worse. She tells him he has to clean it up, but doesn't follow through, so their basement reeks like urine. This is also an issue for his sister who is 9, but not quite as bad. They have tried an alarm to wake him up at night, but he sleeps like the dead, and quite honestly, I think they are too lazy to get up and go wake him up to go. I feel bad for him, though, because he won't spend the night with his friends and it is definitely effecting his social life. Any advice on how to handle this? I dobt his mom will listen but maybe I can offer some hints in a subtle way. It is just so out of hand at this point, that I am really worried about it and he is not even my family!

My nephew from a previous marriage wasn't learned until 9 or 10. They purchased adult diapers for him after asking him how he would like to deal with the issue. "ISSUE" not "PROBLEM"
He chose to wear a diaper instead of having a messy bed. It is discrete and made him responsible for the upkeep. No one pressured him. No one outside a small group of friends and family knew. He would spend the night. And take a zip bag for wet dipe with him and bring it home to discard. He eventually gained control.
I can almost promise you, no child does it on purpose. Not at these ages.

[Unregistered]

My nephew from a previous marriage wasn't learned until 9 or 10. They purchased adult diapers for him after asking him how he would like to deal with the issue. "ISSUE" not "PROBLEM"
He chose to wear a diaper instead of having a messy bed. It is discrete and made him responsible for the upkeep. No one pressured him. No one outside a small group of friends and family knew. He would spend the night. And take a zip bag for wet dipe with him and bring it home to discard. He eventually gained control.
I can almost promise you, no child does it on purpose. Not at these ages.

Thank you for your response! I think they did the adult diaper thing too, but there was this bid debate over whether that was enabling him or helping him, so I am not sure if they still use them. I really don't know what to think, but I definitely know he is not doing it on purpose. He is very embarassed about it. I just wish there was a miricale cure for it, because it is so tough to be a teenager as it is, let alone to have this issue. Hopefully, he can work it out soon and have one less thing on his plate as he goes through junior/high school.

[daycare]

my sister wet utnil teen years due to having an underdeveloped bladder.

we didn't joke about it then, but we do now. her license plate frame says outta my way I gotta pee.... to this day she has issues and gets up nightly to go to the bathroom. on road trips she dehydrates herself.

perhaps TMI, but she even mastered going into a bottle so we didn't have to pull roadside every hour for her to go...

I do think that if you shame a child you will only make more unnecessary issue for them throughout their life. My sister was thankful that my parents didn't make a deal out of it, it was not her fault.

My own son, oldest slept so hard he couldn't wake up to pee at night and wet his bed until he was 12. I started setting his alarm around 2 am to get him up to go and eventually it stopped him from wetting the bed. Oh goodness he will kill me if he knew i put this out on the internet... its been a huge family secret....until now...

[laundrymom]

He will die if it's malicious. Not to help another child. I'm sure.

my sister wet utnil teen years due to having an underdeveloped bladder.

we didn't joke about it then, but we do now. her license plate frame says outta my way I gotta pee.... to this day she has issues and gets up nightly to go to the bathroom. on road trips she dehydrates herself.

perhaps TMI, but she even mastered going into a bottle so we didn't have to pull roadside every hour for her to go...

I do think that if you shame a child you will only make more unnecessary issue for them throughout their life. My sister was thankful that my parents didn't make a deal out of it, it was not her fault.

My own son, oldest slept so hard he couldn't wake up to pee at night and wet his bed until he was 12. I started setting his alarm around 2 am to get him up to go and eventually it stopped him from wetting the bed. Oh goodness he will kill me if he knew i put this out on the internet... its been a huge family secret....until now...