Preschoolers in Diapers. . .

[NightOwl]

Daycare parent here- just wanted to throw my experience out there! My son did not fully potty train until he was almost 5, he was diagnosed with encopresis right after his fourth bday. We started potty training around age 2.5 years, and he mastered peeing on the potty almost immediately, but getting BMs on the potty was a long, frustrating process. We switched daycares when he was 3.5 and thankfully his new daycare accepted him in pull-ups (he did tend to have most of his accidents at home). His daycare teachers were not familiar with encopresis (neither was I until my son was diagnosed with it), so I just wanted to put it out there as it could be a reason some preschoolers are not fully potty trained.

I'm not familiar with this. Could you elaborate?

I have never had a normally developing child to go past 4 and not be potty trained. I have seen children go up to 5 and 6 if they also had other areas of delay.

I agree some children yank their parents' chains. My own nephew came to me at almost 4 and still wearing pull ups, which he readily used at home every day. I told him the very first day, after I got that pull up off and put undies on him, that HE would be cleaning up any "accidents" he had here. He said EWWWWW!! You know how many accidents he had here? ZERO. At home? Daily accidents. My sister is a slacker and tends to do whatever requires the least amount of effort, and I knew this was why he still wore pull ups.

I don't allow pull ups here at all for potty training. They're diapers, plain and simple. We go straight to underwear or those super thick, absorbent underwear, but no pull ups.

[Unregistered]

My understanding/experience with encopresis is that it's when a child is withholding BMs, leading to constipation and massive blockage, and eventually small amounts of fecal matter leak out into the child's underwear/pull-up. It hurts to go, so the child resists going,and it just creates a vicious cycle. Eventually the bowel muscles get very loose, so the child can't really hold it in, and loses the sensation of feeling like he/she has to go the bathroom. From speaking with our pediatrician and gastroenterologist, it's somewhat of a behavioral issue at first, but then turns into more of a physical condition due to the chronic constipation. Sometimes big changes in a child's life can play a role, in my sons case, my husband was diagnosed with a terminal neurological condition and had to move to a nursing home when our son was 3, so not sure if that could have played a role (a control struggle), one doctor believes it did, but I'm not really sure. Eventually the doctor had us do a cleanse with laxatives (at home, and of course I kept him home from daycare for a few days) when an X-ray revealed he was incredibly blocked up. We then had to give him miralax daily (still do per our pediatrician's instructions), and after being on miralax a little over a month, the "accidents/leakage" went away. But I still have to remind him to sit on the potty daily and try to go, he's been doing great and with his daycares permission we stopped pull-ups and went to underwear when he'd been accident free a couple weeks. It's been 6 months now, so it's hopefully behind us!

Interestingly enough, I stumbled onto this site when my son was diagnosed with encopresis and I was googling it to learn more about it! I pop on ever so often and like around, it's been helpful to see situations from daycare providers' points of view, my son goes to a center as I don't have anyone to provide backup care, so a home daycare wouldn't be a good fit for us.

[Febby]

In one of my trainings a while back, our trainer told us that part of the reason children are potty training later is because they're not getting as many chances to develop motor skills as they used to. Infants are spending more time in restrictive equipment (swings, bouncy seats, etc.) and less time on the floor. Additionally, a lot of children (including some infants!) get more screen time than they used to. And all of that, according to this trainer, delays motor development which delays potty training.

I haven't actually been able to find the research she kept referring to though... (Not that I really need a reason to not have a bunch of screen time)

[Jujube835]

I don't see how changing a poopy pull up is any better/different than changing a poopy diaper...

I'm not changing a poopy anything. The pull-ups are for an extra layer of security, just incase they have an accident. The kids sit on the potty every hour and if they show any signs of needing a potty in between those hourly visits then they sit on the potty then as well. I reeeeeally do not believe that a child older than 2 needs a diaper. In my experience with my own kids, my experience in the center I worked at, and with the daycare kids I have now, I've never met a child that can't be potty trained by their 3rd birthday IF the parent is willing to put in the work.

[Unregistered]

Day care dad

I don't know.......20 years ago I never heard of a child over three that wasn't trained-ever. 15 to 20 years ago All my child care kids trained easily around age 2 1/2.

Pull ups seem to have caused a more drawn out process. Also, When children wore cloth diapers training was also easier because children felt uncomfortable. Parents were more motivated to get their child out of diapers before disposables came on the seen too.

We are a wealthy country. In third world countries with few resources-especially water for cleaning cloth diapers, children are trained much earlier without problems.

The trend has shifted, parents are busier and busier, we have pull ups...all of a sudden in the last ten years kids are just not developmentally ready, where before that they easily trained sometime during the second year.

I think it's a trend, not that kids aren't ready earlier. Kids run the show in lots of households. I see lots of parents afraid to parent.

I know in some instances it's medical. That's a different story.

[spedmommy4]

Daycare parent here- just wanted to throw my experience out there! My son did not fully potty train until he was almost 5, he was diagnosed with encopresis right after his fourth bday. We started potty training around age 2.5 years, and he mastered peeing on the potty almost immediately, but getting BMs on the potty was a long, frustrating process. We switched daycares when he was 3.5 and thankfully his new daycare accepted him in pull-ups (he did tend to have most of his accidents at home). His daycare teachers were not familiar with encopresis (neither was I until my son was diagnosed with it), so I just wanted to put it out there as it could be a reason some preschoolers are not fully potty trained.

I have a daughter with the same condition. She is 10 now and it is still a struggle. Thus far, I have determined whether or not I would accept the child on a case by case basis. But . . . I have one too many enrolled parents who just aren't noticing their little ones readiness and/or are not motivated to work on potty training.

[Jujube835]

Pushing toilet training before a child is developmentally ready makes the process twice as long and twice as difficult. It also opens up the issue of regression and more accidents than those kids who were trained AFTER they show signs of readiness.

If you wait to train a child until they show signs of readiness, the process should really only take a couple days max. and the rate of regression and/or accidents is almost none.

Also, like Controlled Chaos mentioned, how is changing a 3 yr olds pull up any better than changing a diaper?

I absolutely agree with you. I would never push a child that wasn't ready. But, every child (barring a medical condition, of course) should be developmentally ready to potty train by 3. There's no excuse. I believe that this trend is a result of parental laziness (that sounds harsh, I know) rather than the children's genuine lack of readiness.


In that same respect, I do take these kids to the potty every hour. And yes, it takes longer than a couple days to potty train them. BUT they are potty trained at 2.5 as opposed to waiting "until they show signs" at 4 years old. I'd rather put in the effort at 2.5 and take the two weeks to train them, than wait until 4 and only have to train for a couple days. Even at 2.5 years old, theres no trauma, no tears, and no kids being shamed or guilted.


Basically what I'm saying is this: Its not that they aren't ready to train at 2.5. They ARE ready, they just need an adult to give them lots of opportunities and reminders. But like I said, I don't mind the extra work if it means I can escape an additional 1.5 years of diapers. Does that make sense?

[spedmommy4]

I agree with this 100%...but i do have to say this....i think a lot of kids these days really know how to manipulate their parents from a very young age, so they tend to normally run the show.

I have a just turned 3 year old dcg that tell her parents which direction to park her car each day and which direction to leave from my front door so the dcg can stand and wave to dcm as she leaves. she tells her parents what to do non-stop and the parents do it because they don't want to listen to her cry.

I also just posted about a 4 yr old who the parents said he is too young to take a hearing test, because he just didn't want to have to listen to the doctor...LOL. yup true story.

I agree that it has to be when the child is ready, but i do think that many parents are missing the window of opportunity to train and instead they create a harder habit to break.

my dcp that have routines and schedules for their kids and are the ones in charge have the kids that potty train before age 3

the ones that the children run the show, I see those kids in diapers sometimes until almost 5.

Hey, I think we have the same kid. My 3.5 year old that "can't" be potty trained also "can't" give up the sippy cup. He also recently tricked me into thinking he was sick. I called his mom and when mom picked up, he told her "I'm not sick, I want to go to nana's house." Guess who got to go to nana's? And . . . my little friend has been trying the same trick that got him sent home every single day for a week. Fool me once . . .

[Jujube835]

I don't know.......20 years ago I never heard of a child over three that wasn't trained-ever. 15 to 20 years ago All my child care kids trained easily around age 2 1/2.

The trend has shifted, parents are busier and busier, we have pull ups...all of a sudden in the last ten years kids are just not developmentally ready, where before that they easily trained sometime during the second year.

I think it's a trend, not that kids aren't ready earlier. Kids run the show in lots of households. I see lots of parents afraid to parent.

happyface

[childcaremom]

I would not accept a child over 3 who isn't potty trained. If they are already in my care and not trained, fine.

[Blackcat31]

I am surprised at how many of you feel potty training is like a "trick" you teach a child verses a developmental milestone that comes at an individual time NOT at a chronological age.

Just as you cannot force a child to be taller, you cannot force a child to have bladder control until his/her body has developed the ability to control it.

It is physically NOT possible.

Yes, you can spend hours of your day, days of your weeks and weeks out of your month bringing a child to the toilet at time intervals. Eventually they are going to pee in the potty. A newborn would as well if you held them over the toilet every 30 minutes but that is in NO WAY trained.

I agree that a lot of parents allow their child to "run the show" or that parents miss the window to train but toilet training isn't a discipline issue or parenting issue and it saddens me to see so many providers feel it is. I think this is an area that parents really need to research when putting their child in a care environment.

As parent, I would steer clear of a program that simply thought my child was ready for something simply based on their age verses their individual abilities and maturity levels. Potty training is like teething. There are guidelines as to when the first tooth erupts and when the last tooth comes in but those aren't rules. You can't force a child to grow a tooth any more than you can force them to control their bladders.

There are two things we can never control.

What they eat.

When it comes out.

Don't engage in this battle. The emotional trauma to a child can leave scars for their lifetime (irritable bowel syndrome, encopresis and a host of other issues).

Yes, in generations past kids were trained at an early age but they weren't "trained" they were forced and often times ridiculed, punished, humiliated and bribed to perform. In some cases, the process was long, exhausting, messy and emotionally inappropriate and/or traumatizing.

The argument that previous generations did "X" so we should too is silly...

.....we used to ride in cars with out safety belts too, we used to put children that were mentally challenged in institutions, we used to punish kids for being left handed and forced them to use their right hands, we used to put babies to sleep on their tummies only, we used to smoke/drink alcohol during pregnancy, we used to use DDT pesticides, we used to play with liquid mercury, we used to use asbestos in insulation, we used to.....

We used to do lots of things....but now we know better.

[daycare]

but if all the research shows that sphincter muscles are fully developed between 12-24 months with the average age of maturity of 18months, why are kids still in diapers at age 3-4 years old.

Yes i understand that the child needs to be ready needing the motor skills, verbal, emotional and social as well as congnitive, but I really do think that potty training these days is delayed because of SOME parents.

I can't tell you how many interviews or phone calls i get of parents asking:

DO YOU GUYS POTTY TRAIN??? Of course i tell them i won't do it for them but will assist. I have had honest parents tell me oh, ok and hang up. Others tell me they don't have time to do it and that's why they are looking for a childcare for their child.


I really do see that many parents have made PT a battle/behavior issue for their child. If I could only tell you the stories of what parents have done to potty train their child.

I firmly believe in waiting until they are ready to PT, but I also think that a lot of parents don't want to invest the time and commitment it takes to do it.

[Unregistered]

Both my kids did not go on the potty until 3.5. You could call me lazy, but I just didn't want to make going to the bathroom a challenge. Around 3, I would start talking about the potty and wearing big kid underwear and just sort of throw it out there if they wanted to give it a try. One day, my son said he wanted to try and he went, so I put him in underwear and said, next time you feel the need, remember you have underwear on, so you need to go to the potty. The first time, he wet his underwear, so we put new ones and I told him to try for next time. Next time, he said, "I need to go pee!" and sprinted to the bathroom and made it. He is almost 6 and has never had an accident since. We did underwear at night too, with no issues, so all in all, it took him one day to be potty trained (technically a few hours). My daughter is 3.5 and has been potty trained for 3 months now. Same situtation except she has not had a single accident and sleeps in underwear at night with no problem. I don't believe in putting an age limit on potty training. I think it can make kids nervous and make parents stressed if it doesn't work out. This can lead to much longer term issues with the potty. My niece is an example. Sister started at 2 yeaars old and she is almost 3 and still having multiple "accidents" each day. Some may be ready at 2, but I find that just waiting it out seems to be easiest, imo.

[Blackcat31]

but if all the research shows that sphincter muscles are fully developed between 12-24 months with the average age of maturity of 18months, why are kids still in diapers at age 3-4 years old.

Yes i understand that the child needs to be ready needing the motor skills, verbal, emotional and social as well as congnitive, but I really do think that potty training these days is delayed because of SOME parents.

I can't tell you how many interviews or phone calls i get of parents asking:

DO YOU GUYS POTTY TRAIN??? Of course i tell them i won't do it for them but will assist. I have had honest parents tell me oh, ok and hang up. Others tell me they don't have time to do it and that's why they are looking for a childcare for their child.


I really do see that many parents have made PT a battle/behavior issue for their child. If I could only tell you the stories of what parents have done to potty train their child.

I firmly believe in waiting until they are ready to PT, but I also think that a lot of parents don't want to invest the time and commitment it takes to do it.

Maturity of the anal and bladder sphincter's is only ONE part of a multi-facet process.

Along WITH sphincter maturity a child must posses maturity and/or ability in several other areas as well.

Emotional
Verbal
Cognitive
Motor
Social

Again, just because a child is physiologically ready to be potty trained does not mean that she/he has the other skills required.

It's just like any other age. MORE than ONE skill is required and the amount of time it takes to master ALL those skills and the time in which it takes to do that cannot be narrowed down to a specific age. Stating kids are ready to be trained at 18-24 months is simply untrue and unfair to every single child out there that didn't get their first tooth right at 6 months or didn't take their first step at 12 months.

We all know that window of time is MUCH larger than what is suggested as "average".

Maturity of their bodies can't be pushed or hurried. It ALL comes in time.

Allowing kids to have sippy cups until they are 5 or allowing children to eat nasty diets or not having a schedule for eat, sleep and play will definitely have an impact on the training process but those things are changeable influences....they aren't biological.

[Blackcat31]

Both my kids did not go on the potty until 3.5. You could call me lazy, but I just didn't want to make going to the bathroom a challenge. Around 3, I would start talking about the potty and wearing big kid underwear and just sort of throw it out there if they wanted to give it a try. One day, my son said he wanted to try and he went, so I put him in underwear and said, next time you feel the need, remember you have underwear on, so you need to go to the potty. The first time, he wet his underwear, so we put new ones and I told him to try for next time. Next time, he said, "I need to go pee!" and sprinted to the bathroom and made it. He is almost 6 and has never had an accident since. We did underwear at night too, with no issues, so all in all, it took him one day to be potty trained (technically a few hours). My daughter is 3.5 and has been potty trained for 3 months now. Same situtation except she has not had a single accident and sleeps in underwear at night with no problem. I don't believe in putting an age limit on potty training. I think it can make kids nervous and make parents stressed if it doesn't work out. This can lead to much longer term issues with the potty. My niece is an example. Sister started at 2 yeaars old and she is almost 3 and still having multiple "accidents" each day. Some may be ready at 2, but I find that just waiting it out seems to be easiest, imo.

BINGO!! Kid was ready. Kid pretty much took care of it himself. No stress, no bribing, no interval training......

Toilet training shouldn't be a month long process... it really should only take a couple days before being totally trained. But ONLY if ALL the required needs have been met.

This is child-led. Nice example.