Discrimination at Jo-Ann's Fabrics and Crafts

[MG&Lsmom]

Wow. I'm actually a state licensed grade 5-12 Spanish teacher, and a state licensed home daycare provider. JA's won't give me my discount card because I don't have a current state teacher union card. Union membership in our state is not mandatory. I haven't taught in a public school in 3 years and can't afford the dues so I just let my membership expire. But when I went back with my state issued license they said no. I was going to try a couple of other stores I also shop at but stopped there. They were so rude! I won't even shop there anymore based on how they treated me.

[QualiTcare]

Wow. I'm actually a state licensed grade 5-12 Spanish teacher, and a state licensed home daycare provider. JA's won't give me my discount card because I don't have a current state teacher union card. Union membership in our state is not mandatory. I haven't taught in a public school in 3 years and can't afford the dues so I just let my membership expire. But when I went back with my state issued license they said no. I was going to try a couple of other stores I also shop at but stopped there. They were so rude! I won't even shop there anymore based on how they treated me.

now, THIS would be discrimination.

[MommyMuffin]

Great information!

I dont think it matters if you are an educated teacher or a daycare provider. I dont know why previous posters are getting off the real topic. I think the whole point of the discount is to get craft items and activities into the hands of children.

I would love to participate for the cause.

[QualiTcare]

Great information!

I dont think it matters if you are an educated teacher or a daycare provider. I dont know why previous posters are getting off the real topic. I think the whole point of the discount is to get craft items and activities into the hands of children.

I would love to participate for the cause.

it got off topic because we were talking about WHY educated teachers AND homeschool "teachers" (who do not have to be educated) are getting the discount and daycare providers are not. wait, that is the topic.

anyhow, it has to have something to do with public school/homeschool being non-profit and daycare being for profit. i'm not positive and tom hasn't responded, but that's the only explanation that makes sense.

companies don't care about getting supplies into the hands of children. they care about drawing in the people who can bring them the most money and getting the biggest breaks and rewards.

[TomCopeland]

Providers are Teachers

Tom what does this mean? "The way to overcome this ignorance is to be proactive in educating others about the positive impact preschool teachers make on the lives of young children. All the research supports this."

What research are you refferring to?

I have to agree with JoAnn's on this. The child care industry has done this to themselves. The misues of the word teacher has finally been CAUGHT by big business.

In my State you can have a Center with three hundred kids and not have a single person in the building that has even a GED except for the director who has to have a high school diploma.

Every single center in my area calls their staff teachers. The staff can walk into the building without a high school education and not even a GED and within a couple of days of background checking and a physical they can be put into a room and be called Teacher from that day on. The amount of "education" they have to have is a two hour child abuse class and by the anniversary of their first year of service they have to have tweleve hours of CHILD CARE classes that are NOT college classes. When I say twelve hours I mean twelve sixty minute hours. THAT'S IT.

The state of Iowa does NOT regulate that term. The Centers use the word because it makes them money. It makes the parents feel like their child is with an educated person.

I can't speak to the home schooling part because I don't know their reasoning for that but I say cheers to them for taking a stand on this term that is so misused.

I hope you haven't been smitten by the research on poor kids and early childhood intervention. YES preschool is valuable to children who are the poorest of the poor and who live in underprivledged environments. Other than that subsect of the population, I haven't found any research to back up that preschool makes any signficant difference in any measurable life outcome for lower middle class, middle class, upper middle class, or wealthy children. That's the blunt of our kid population.

You said: Are Family Child Care Providers Teachers?
Jacqueline Crocker always thought so. She has been a licensed family child care provider in the Kansas City area for over 20 years. She is accredited by the National Association for Family Child Care (NAFCC)

Here is the NAFCC's Eligibility criteria: http://www.sncs.org/downloads/provid...pplication.pdf


Be at least 21 years of age. Have a high school diploma or GED.
Provide care to children for a minimum of 15 hours per week.
Provide care to a minimum of three children in a home environment.
At least one child must not reside in the provider’s home.
Be the primary caregiver, spending at least 80% of the operating hours actively involved with the children.
Co-providers must spend at least 60% of the time actively involved with the children.
Have at least 12 months experience as a family child care provider. Meet the highest level of regulation to operate a family child care program by the authorized regulatory body.
Be in compliance with all regulations of the authorized regulatory body . Have a favorable state and federal criminal history.
Be in good health in order to provide a nurturing and stable environment for children.
Maintain a current CPR and Pediatric First Aid certification. Adhere to the NAEYC Code of Ethical Conduct .

You see why JoAnn's doesn't accept that as proof of being a teacher?

I think you are missing something here. Plenty of research shows children have the greatest brain development before they enter kindergarten. The research also shows that high quality preschool programs make a significant impact on the development of preschool children. Low quality preschool can harm children. The point here is that society should be concerned about how we are teaching preschool children. If we only care about what children are learning after they enter kindergarten then we will fail our children. I assume that all family child care providers know this and that's why you work so hard at what you do. To recognize as "teachers" on those who teach school age children is a mistake.

When Jo-Ann Fabric and Crafts (and many other businesses) makes a distinction between teachers and preschool teachers it reinforces the false message that children only start learning when they enter kindergarten. And it says that all teachers of school age children are valued (no matter how good or bad they might be individually) and all preschool teachers are not valued (no matter how qualified and excellent they may be individually).

No matter how many credentials a preschool teacher might have (NAFCC accredited, former school age teacher, PhD in Education) Jo-Ann Fabric and Crafts won't recognize them as teachers. It's not about their credentials, it's about the fact that they teach preschoolers. The message here is that society doesn't care about what happens to children before they enter school and those who care for them are worthy of support. That's why society provides so little financial support for preschool while we invest heavily from the moment they enter kindergarten through college.

[TomCopeland]

Who are the supplies for?

Yes. TOTALLY agree. I gotta go with JoAnne's on this one. We're NOT teachers*. And I agree with giving K-12 TEACHERS the discount, because they DO spend tons of their own money on supplies.

*see clarification in my next post.

The point is that the supplies are for children who need them. Do preschool children need supplies as well? Of course. We want school age children to have the best learning experience as possible. But we also want the same for preschool children. Don't we?

[TomCopeland]

Nafcc

I think you are missing something here. Plenty of research shows children have the greatest brain development before they enter kindergarten. The research also shows that high quality preschool programs make a significant impact on the development of preschool children. Low quality preschool can harm children. The point here is that society should be concerned about how we are teaching preschool children. If we only care about what children are learning after they enter kindergarten then we will fail our children. I assume that all family child care providers know this and that's why you work so hard at what you do. To recognize as "teachers" on those who teach school age children is a mistake.

When Jo-Ann Fabric and Crafts (and many other businesses) makes a distinction between teachers and preschool teachers it reinforces the false message that children only start learning when they enter kindergarten. And it says that all teachers of school age children are valued (no matter how good or bad they might be individually) and all preschool teachers are not valued (no matter how qualified and excellent they may be individually).

No matter how many credentials a preschool teacher might have (NAFCC accredited, former school age teacher, PhD in Education) Jo-Ann Fabric and Crafts won't recognize them as teachers. It's not about their credentials, it's about the fact that they teach preschoolers. The message here is that society doesn't care about what happens to children before they enter school and those who care for them are worthy of support. That's why society provides so little financial support for preschool while we invest heavily from the moment they enter kindergarten through college.

By the way - the criteria you cite for NAFCC accreditation is what a person must meet before they can apply for NAFCC accreditation! It's not the qualifications of someone who is accredited!

[Lucy]

The point is that the supplies are for children who need them. Do preschool children need supplies as well? Of course. We want school age children to have the best learning experience as possible. But we also want the same for preschool children. Don't we?

My post was comparing Home Daycare Providers to K-12 teachers, Tom.

[melskids]

i'm just wondering.....

as a home daycare provider, and a business owner, supplies i purchase are deductible on my taxes.

can teachers in public schools (whether pre-k or k-12) do that as well?

[Crystal]

By the way - the criteria you cite for NAFCC accreditation is what a person must meet before they can apply for NAFCC accreditation! It's not the qualifications of someone who is accredited!

this is SO true! To actually become accredited, there are MANY quality indicators that a provider must meet. The provider must conduct their own self-study, which may take up to two years, and then undergo a very intensive observation by a qualified accredidation observer. Recieving the accredidation means that the provider is offering an excellent, above average program that meets the developmental needs of all of the children in care. I think an accredited provider would meet the distinction of being a "teacher"

[QualiTcare]

[QUOTE=Crystal;69492]this is SO true! To actually become accredited, there are MANY quality indicators that a provider must meet. The provider must conduct their own self-study, which may take up to two years, and then undergo a very intensive observation by a qualified accredidation observer. Recieving the accredidation means that the provider is offering an excellent, above average program that meets the developmental needs of all of the children in care. I think an accredited provider would meet the distinction of being a "teacher"[/QUOTE]

but they don't. most every associate's degree known to man takes 2 years to complete and it's very rare that someone with a 2 year education receives a professional license - not that a self study is the same as an education. a LPN can get a license in 2 years, but that's another group who twists terms. CNA's claiming to be nurses - people with CDA's claiming to be teachers. it makes NO SENSE!! be proud of what YOU have (not YOU pesonally), but don't go around claiming to have something/be something that you're NOT! if you claim to be something that you're not, it just shows that's what you really want to be - which makes me wonder.....why don't you do the work if you want the title? let's go ahead and give piano TEACHERS a discount and dance TEACHERS. hell, let's give the cashier who TEACHES us how the register works (joyce) ! i'm gonna go put a band-aid on someone else's kid and start telling people i'm a NURSE!

the bottom line is, as nannyde was saying, use of the word "teacher" came about in childcare because it made the staff feel good and it made the parents feel like their children were being cared for by someone educated, someone who "knew what they were doing" because they took classes! nevermind the fact they weren't college classes and could've been taught by joe blow. i've always played along, but when we want to get technical about it, childcare providers are just that - childcare providers. EVEN if they're a childcare provider who did a two year "self study" and underwent AN observation.

[QualiTcare]

i'm just wondering.....

as a home daycare provider, and a business owner, supplies i purchase are deductible on my taxes.

can teachers in public schools (whether pre-k or k-12) do that as well?

no, they can't - other than the $250 tax credit tom mentioned in his first post.

i've asked fifteen thousand times if the REAL issue here was TAXES and i found my answer in the silence.

teachers and homeschooling parents can't write off expenses. business owners/childcare providers can. THAT is the real deal.

[Crystal]

Okay then. What about the preschool "teachers" who work for the school district that are unable to recieve the disounts? As Tom stated, even they do not qualify to recieve the discount.

And, QCare, in Ca. many of the state preschools (depends on the district standards) only require that you have a Master Teacher Permit to "teach"......not a BA....they don't get to claim expenses on their taxes.....they ARE teachers....but still do not get the discount....what about them? Do you think THEY should get the discount?

[QualiTcare]

Okay then. What about the preschool "teachers" who work for the school district that are unable to recieve the disounts? As Tom stated, even they do not qualify to recieve the discount.

And, QCare, in Ca. many of the state preschools (depends on the district standards) only require that you have a Master Teacher Permit to "teach"......not a BA....they don't get to claim expenses on their taxes.....they ARE teachers....but still do not get the discount....what about them? Do you think THEY should get the discount?

actually, i think it's being blown a little bit out of proportion. i think when tom says "preschool" he's referring literally to children including daycare children who haven't started school yet.the policy of who can receive the disount at jo-ann's says:

•Currently state certified, credentialed or licensed teacher at any K-12 public, private or parochial school or higher education learning institution

that word "at" means any licensed teacher who works AT a public, private, or parochial school can receive the discount. if the preschool is in a public school and you are a licensed teacher, you would get the discount. you think preschool teachers ARE teachers even if they didn't go through all the school/exams/licensing standards to earn that title, and several other people *think* that way also - which is why i believe jo-ann's made a point to say "state certified, credentialed, or licensed teacher, etc, etc." so every person with a GED who worked at "little sprouts pre-school" couldn't come in and get a discount.

[nannyde]

[QUOTE=QualiTcare;69517]

this is SO true! To actually become accredited, there are MANY quality indicators that a provider must meet. The provider must conduct their own self-study, which may take up to two years, and then undergo a very intensive observation by a qualified accredidation observer. Recieving the accredidation means that the provider is offering an excellent, above average program that meets the developmental needs of all of the children in care. I think an accredited provider would meet the distinction of being a "teacher"[/QUOTE]

but they don't. most every associate's degree known to man takes 2 years to complete and it's very rare that someone with a 2 year education receives a professional license - not that a self study is the same as an education. a LPN can get a license in 2 years, but that's another group who twists terms. CNA's claiming to be nurses - people with CDA's claiming to be teachers. it makes NO SENSE!! be proud of what YOU have (not YOU pesonally), but don't go around claiming to have something/be something that you're NOT! if you claim to be something that you're not, it just shows that's what you really want to be - which makes me wonder.....why don't you do the work if you want the title? let's go ahead and give piano TEACHERS a discount and dance TEACHERS. hell, let's give the cashier who TEACHES us how the register works (joyce) ! i'm gonna go put a band-aid on someone else's kid and start telling people i'm a NURSE!

the bottom line is, as nannyde was saying, use of the word "teacher" came about in childcare because it made the staff feel good and it made the parents feel like their children were being cared for by someone educated, someone who "knew what they were doing" because they took classes! nevermind the fact they weren't college classes and could've been taught by joe blow. i've always played along, but when we want to get technical about it, childcare providers are just that - childcare providers. EVEN if they're a childcare provider who did a two year "self study" and underwent AN observation.

My work here is done