Discrimination at Jo-Ann's Fabrics and Crafts

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  • nannyde
    All powerful, all knowing daycare whisperer
    • Mar 2010
    • 7320

    #61
    Originally posted by TomCopeland
    Is there a difference in credentials for those who educate children? Of course - BA, Masters, PhD, CDA, NAFCC accredited, QRS, and so on. Why is it so important to call some of them teachers and others not? Are we saying that the only way we can call someone a teacher of preschool children is if they have a post-secondary degree? Why this resistance to calling those who educate our children "teachers"?

    The problem I have is that making this distinction between those who are "teachers" and those who are not is that by doing so we devalue the work that preschool teachers do. This is particularly disturbing when we know that children learn the most before they become schoolagers!

    I'm not trying to devalue the work of school age teachers. I'm not disagreeing that some preschool teachers do a terrible job. I'm saying that what is important is that we recognize the importance of educating preschool children. This work is so important that the least we can do is call them teachers. If this raises the expectations of what preschool teachers should be doing, so be it.
    This is a really good article: http://www.heraldsun.com/view/full_s...e=main_article

    Terry Stoops is an education analyst for the John Locke Foundation, a Raleigh-based organization with conservative leanings. When he reads some of the same preschool studies that advocates are using to argue for these programs, he sees a phenomenon known as "fadeout." In other words, academic gains that preschoolers register seem to disappear by the time those children reach middle school, if not much sooner.

    "What is happening here is that we're spending millions -- hundreds of millions -- of dollars on programs that aren't helping students read any better, do math any better, basically enhance their education," Stoops said.

    A federal study released in January backs his position. "The benefits of access to Head Start are largely absent by first grade for the program population as a whole," the authors reported. For those entering Head Start as 3-year-olds, "there are few sustained benefits, although access to the program may lead to improved parent-child relationships."

    The study found some lasting benefits for certain groups, such as children with disabilities or with extremely low cognitive skills. But there were also negative effects associated with attending Head Start.

    Supporters of early childhood education say that the interventions they tout benefit youngsters in ways that don't show up on standardized tests.

    "Really, the verdict is still out," Stoops said. "But from what we have available, all indications seem to be that most students aren't getting much of a benefit from these programs."


    "We certainly support pre-kindergarten programs for desperately poor students who lack functioning parents," he said. But tax dollars helping any other children could have a much greater impact if they were instead funneled into vouchers or tax credits that parents could use to pay for child care, Stoops asserts


    Before we get to the notion that preschool is so valuable why don't we get some research to prove it is?

    I don't believe that preschool is the answer in early childhood. I think the parents are the TEACHERS for their children. I think there are a lot better things to invest billions of dollars into to give our kids the best chance of being good students.

    Kids need an early childhood of close proximal supervision, excellent nutrition, free play, outdoor exercise, GOOD DEEP SLEEP, discipline, and affection. They need good CARE. If they have an early childhood of good care they will be great students. Good care CAN include "education" but it will not further them academically.

    At the age of five/six the kids are ready for academics. For hundreds of years we have understood this is the age to begin their "education". Nothing has changed with this generation of students. They aren't more evolved at two/three/four then they were a hundred years ago. You can't cheat mother nature. We are humans and human babies and toddlers don't prosper from early "education". They prosper from good care in the areas I listed above.

    We HAVE to get back to the basics. We aren't doing better after a couple of decades of "early education". We are failing our children because we aren't supporting what REALLY matters in raising quality kids.
    http://www.amazon.com/Daycare-Whispe...=doing+daycare

    Comment

    • TomCopeland
      Business Author/Trainer
      • Jun 2010
      • 3062

      #62
      New Blog Post on Jo-Ann Fabric and Crafts

      I've just written a new blog post on this controversy. I've gotten the contact of the person at Jo-Ann Fabric who is in charge of their teacher program and I've written her a letter. I've posted a poll about this issue as well.
      http://www.tomcopelandblog.com

      Comment

      • Unregistered

        #63
        Originally posted by Joyce
        I like that distinction. Maybe the reason they want to give discounts to K-12 teachers is that they struggle with low wages that they have no control over due to budget cuts. We, as self-employed Providers, have much more control about how much we make. We can raise rates or take more kids, increase our hours, etc.
        In my area, I am more likely to get parents receiving state assistance and in Oklahoma, the state sets the rate. I'm also limited to 7 kids and right now two of my own kids count in that number. I understand that I could increase my income by raising my rates, but finding parents who can pay them is nearly impossible. I am more-or-less set limited in the amount of income I can make.

        Comment

        • mugglegirl

          #64
          I'll say here what I said in my response to a post on Facebook.

          I don't think this is so much about the discount as it is about the general attitude toward the Early Childhood community. Many of us have college educations and provide the foundations in learning for the children in our care. We aren't just "babysitters" as we're often called. A babysitter is the teenager that watches tv with your kids for a couple of hours while you have a night out with your spouse. Its a respect issue.

          Comment

          • QualiTcare
            Advanced Daycare.com Member
            • Apr 2010
            • 1502

            #65
            Originally posted by mugglegirl
            I'll say here what I said in my response to a post on Facebook.

            I don't think this is so much about the discount as it is about the general attitude toward the Early Childhood community. Many of us have college educations and provide the foundations in learning for the children in our care. We aren't just "babysitters" as we're often called. A babysitter is the teenager that watches tv with your kids for a couple of hours while you have a night out with your spouse. Its a respect issue.
            exactly, it's a respect issue which is probably why jo-ann's has made the distinction. would it affect the pockets of teachers if daycare providers got the discount? no. as you said, it's a respect issue.

            you can not call yourself a doctor if you are not a licensed doctor. you can't call yourself a nurse unless you are a licensed nurse. you can not call yourself a lawyer unless you hold a license to practice law. not only can you not say you are a doctor, nurse, or lawyer when you do not hold the license, but there are legal ramifications including jail if you do. so, why people think it's okay to throw the title of teacher around all willy-nilly is beyond me. i worked in daycare for years before i became a teacher, and i did it for awhile afterward. in my years as a daycare provider i never thought of myself as a teacher and would never have told someone who asked what i did for a living that i was a teacher. i had co-workers who when asked outside of work what they did, they would say, "i'm a pre-school teacher." it's deceptive to put it lightly.

            Comment

            • Crystal
              Advanced Daycare.com Member
              • Dec 2009
              • 4002

              #66
              But, QCare, if the provider IS, by state definitions(not YOUR definition) a Preschool Teacher, then WHY should they NOT call themselves a teacher?

              I agree that the "lady down the street" that cares for kids, who has absolutley no ECE background whatsoever should not call herself a teacher, but if the state defines you as a teacher and you have earned a credential, offered by the state, then you should call yourself a teacher.

              I am a child care provider AND a teacher. I have children who come to my program 3 hours a day, specifically for preschool.

              WHY should I not be called a teacher? Because YOU say so? Sorry, the State says I am and your opinion of it is worthless to me.

              Comment

              • QualiTcare
                Advanced Daycare.com Member
                • Apr 2010
                • 1502

                #67
                Originally posted by Crystal
                But, QCare, if the provider IS, by state definitions(not YOUR definition) a Preschool Teacher, then WHY should they NOT call themselves a teacher?

                I agree that the "lady down the street" that cares for kids, who has absolutley no ECE background whatsoever should not call herself a teacher, but if the state defines you as a teacher and you have earned a credential, offered by the state, then you should call yourself a teacher.

                I am a child care provider AND a teacher. I have children who come to my program 3 hours a day, specifically for preschool.

                WHY should I not be called a teacher? Because YOU say so? Sorry, the State says I am and your opinion of it is worthless to me.

                crystal, in the example that i gave, they were NOT preschool teachers. they worked at a DAYCARE and had NO education. apparently, you are qualified to teach preschool in your neck of the woods, so YOU would be a "preschool TEACHER."

                although you are a rare case and still deceptive with the lingo.
                Last edited by QualiTcare; 01-07-2011, 06:15 PM.

                Comment

                • marniewon
                  Daycare.com Member
                  • Aug 2010
                  • 897

                  #68
                  Originally posted by Crystal
                  You can particpate in box tops.

                  As far as Target type programs, those are for non-profit schools, not individual teachers.

                  Sure, I agree Joanne's can "draw the line in the sand", just as we can. And, by doing so, they may lose potential clientele, just as we might if we do not offer parents what they want.
                  I went to the boxtops website and here is what they say about eligibility:

                  Eligibility

                  The Box Tops for Education® program is open to any accredited public, private or parochial school, containing any class with students from Kindergarten to 8th grade, in the United States and Puerto Rico organized and primarily operated for educational purposes and to any United States military school, containing any class with students from Kindergarten to 8th grade, worldwide. It is also available to home school associations, containing any class with students from Kindergarten to 8th grade, in the United States organized and operated primarily for educational purposes and have 15 or more students.


                  How in the world are you able to do boxtops?

                  Comment

                  • mugglegirl

                    #69
                    Originally posted by QualiTcare
                    crystal, in the example that i gave, they were NOT preschool teachers. they worked at a DAYCARE and had NO education. apparently, you are qualified to teach preschool in your neck of the woods, so YOU would be a "preschool TEACHER."

                    although you are a rare case and still deceptive with the lingo.

                    How is she being deceptive with her lingo?? Just because she TEACHES children out of her home, it doesn't mean she's not really teaching them.

                    Your attitude towards the whole situation just further proves that point that society and apparently Jo-Anns sees licensed/registered/accredited childcare providers as nothing more than glorified BABYSITTERS. The fact that we plan a curriculum and activities (just like the "real" teachers in a "real" school) doesn't seem to matter. It's all in one person's opinion of what makes a teacher. And the fact that anyone who chooses to homeschool there child is considered more of a teacher than a provider who is essentially "homeschooling" several children is preposterous.

                    Comment

                    • QualiTcare
                      Advanced Daycare.com Member
                      • Apr 2010
                      • 1502

                      #70
                      Originally posted by mugglegirl
                      How is she being deceptive with her lingo?? Just because she TEACHES children out of her home, it doesn't mean she's not really teaching them.

                      Your attitude towards the whole situation just further proves that point that society and apparently Jo-Anns sees licensed/registered/accredited childcare providers as nothing more than glorified BABYSITTERS. The fact that we plan a curriculum and activities (just like the "real" teachers in a "real" school) doesn't seem to matter. It's all in one person's opinion of what makes a teacher. And the fact that anyone who chooses to homeschool there child is considered more of a teacher than a provider who is essentially "homeschooling" several children is preposterous.
                      i wasn't referring to that one post in particular, but over a period of time.


                      i've been both a child care provider and a teacher and the job descriptions are not "just alike."

                      furthermore, i've said it since the beginning, but nobody responds - i don't think the issue is that "anyone who chooses to homeschool "there" child is considered more of a teacher than a provider." i think the issue is that public schools, private schools, and parents who homeschool are not doing it for a PROFIT.

                      let's just pretend i didn't say that...again.

                      Comment

                      • Crystal
                        Advanced Daycare.com Member
                        • Dec 2009
                        • 4002

                        #71
                        Originally posted by marniewon
                        I went to the boxtops website and here is what they say about eligibility:

                        Eligibility

                        The Box Tops for Education® program is open to any accredited public, private or parochial school, containing any class with students from Kindergarten to 8th grade, in the United States and Puerto Rico organized and primarily operated for educational purposes and to any United States military school, containing any class with students from Kindergarten to 8th grade, worldwide. It is also available to home school associations, containing any class with students from Kindergarten to 8th grade, in the United States organized and operated primarily for educational purposes and have 15 or more students.


                        How in the world are you able to do boxtops?
                        You're right. My bad. I got that info from a friend....I should have checked it first.

                        Comment

                        • marniewon
                          Daycare.com Member
                          • Aug 2010
                          • 897

                          #72
                          Originally posted by Crystal
                          You're right. My bad. I got that info from a friend....I should have checked it first.
                          Darn - I was really hoping that they changed eligibility!! I would love to do boxtops for daycare. We used to do it for our homeschool group, but our group broke up.

                          I could be wrong, but I think you might be able to do labels for education for homeschool or daycare. Don't quote me on it though.

                          Comment

                          • mugglegirl

                            #73
                            On another note, if the line was extended officially to include providers, should it include unlicensed providers also? Afterall, they do the same job don't they?[/QUOTE]

                            I would say no to the unlicensed providers, because in Oklahoma its against the law to operate a childcare without a license. And I'm sorry, but although we don't pay for the actual license, it does cost money to maintain a compliant childcare and I don't think that someone who doesn't take the time to be legal should be given anything that licensed providers are given. However, that would start a whole other issue as I know some states don't require licenses and other states have varying degrees of registration/licensure.

                            Comment

                            • mugglegirl

                              #74
                              furthermore, i've said it since the beginning, but nobody responds - i don't think the issue is that "anyone who chooses to homeschool "there" child is considered more of a teacher than a provider." i think the issue is that public schools, private schools, and parents who homeschool are not doing it for a PROFIT.

                              let's just pretend i didn't say that...again.[/QUOTE]

                              Then Jo-Ann's could clear that up very easily by simply making the discount a non-profit discount and not specify which type of non-profit it applies to. I sure there are other non-profit organizations out there that would love the discount, but don't have licensed teachers on staff.

                              Comment

                              • QualiTcare
                                Advanced Daycare.com Member
                                • Apr 2010
                                • 1502

                                #75
                                "I would say no to the unlicensed providers, because in Oklahoma its against the law to operate a childcare without a license. And I'm sorry, but although we don't pay for the actual license, it does cost money to maintain a compliant childcare and I don't think that someone who doesn't take the time to be legal should be given anything that licensed providers are given. However, that would start a whole other issue as I know some states don't require licenses and other states have varying degrees of registration/licensure."


                                BINGO! apparently, some people think that someone who doesn't take the time to get a teaching license should be given anything they are given.

                                it's the same concept. it's clear that drawing a line is OK - as long as it's on the provider's side of the sand.
                                Last edited by QualiTcare; 01-07-2011, 09:21 PM.

                                Comment

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