New New York Regulations- What Are You All Doing ?

[Familycare71]

I think this has been the intent all along and now they're spelling it out. I remember a while back, going to a videoconference training and one of the "Get it Right" segments about regs had the situation where the provider had listed open hours available for Saturdays. One Saturday a furnace repair man was there - and she was supposed to have him sign in the visitor's log - even though no kids were present.

The old regs say while operating. So if you don't have kids there you aren't operating.
New regs say based on application hours.

To me that's a HUGE difference that they are trying to sneak by.

My guess- until providers start getting nailed on these changes no one will be really willing to do anything major. Maybe me included

[Mister Sir Husband]

Welp, I may as well chime in here myself. First off I am not yet familiar with ALL the new regulations, mostly just the ones I read on here.

Personally, They may not like this, but I am going to have parents sign off on what hours they need me. If for example my last kid leaves at 4:30, and that's the time that his mom has agreed to pick him up by, then as her car leaves the driveway.. my tv gets turned on, the outlet protectors get removed, computers plugged in and a pile of knives will be scattered throughout the kitchen as I prepare dinner... because as I see it, when my last kid leaves I am closed for the day. On the same idea as if a parent calls because they cant pick up til like 8pm or something (maybe their car blew up or something).. I am not depriving my own kids of a bit of tv because there is a day care kid still here.

As far as extra inspections, I am not worried about it. I look at the inspections differently than most. A lot of providers worry about being cited. I don't. If I am cited for something, I look at it as a possible safety issue I missed, and am actually happy that the licenser found it before a kid was hurt.

I also don't worry about them going into rooms that are not used for daycare. If this is true that they can, I will fill these areas with stuff that will embarrass them as much as it would myself. "Oh.. I know that's an awful lot of adult diapers and prophylactics, but there was a sale and I had a coupon"

So for now I am just chillin to see how everything plays out between now and when the rules actually kick in. In the meantime however, I have been invited to a meeting on March 25th at my local Family Enrichment office, where there will be OCFS licensors on hand to answer any and all questions that I may have. So by all means, if any of you have no such opportunity in your area to do this, send over some questions and I can ask on your behalf..

[Familycare71]

Welp, I may as well chime in here myself. First off I am not yet familiar with ALL the new regulations, mostly just the ones I read on here.

Personally, They may not like this, but I am going to have parents sign off on what hours they need me. If for example my last kid leaves at 4:30, and that's the time that his mom has agreed to pick him up by, then as her car leaves the driveway.. my tv gets turned on, the outlet protectors get removed, computers plugged in and a pile of knives will be scattered throughout the kitchen as I prepare dinner... because as I see it, when my last kid leaves I am closed for the day. On the same idea as if a parent calls because they cant pick up til like 8pm or something (maybe their car blew up or something).. I am not depriving my own kids of a bit of tv because there is a day care kid still here.

As far as extra inspections, I am not worried about it. I look at the inspections differently than most. A lot of providers worry about being cited. I don't. If I am cited for something, I look at it as a possible safety issue I missed, and am actually happy that the licenser found it before a kid was hurt.

I also don't worry about them going into rooms that are not used for daycare. If this is true that they can, I will fill these areas with stuff that will embarrass them as much as it would myself. "Oh.. I know that's an awful lot of adult diapers and prophylactics, but there was a sale and I had a coupon"

So for now I am just chillin to see how everything plays out between now and when the rules actually kick in. In the meantime however, I have been invited to a meeting on March 25th at my local Family Enrichment office, where there will be OCFS licensors on hand to answer any and all questions that I may have. So by all means, if any of you have no such opportunity in your area to do this, send over some questions and I can ask on your behalf..

I hear you-
I am going to the same meeting march 17th (I think it is) must be they are making rounds.
My understand of what your saying about the hours is: screw it. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Violations do matter- they matter to the parents who look you up on OCFS website and see a big RED YES! By your name. I have been at this for 15 years- it will effect you sooner or later. I have had violations- small over sites. I know how to keep kids safe... I understand not all do but that is why there should be BASIC health and safety regs... Beyond that is over stepping IMO. Beyond that feel free to say: if I were you I would... I will decide if its a good idea and makes sense and then choose to implement it or not- like the business owner I am
I may actually join in the embarrassing stuff in the room act tho!::

I just don't think most people are as hung up on the: if I sign I agree part of the business. Which is absolutely their right

[Mister Sir Husband]

I do agree with the fact that violations do matter, its just that (and I apologize if I am offending anyone by saying this) I don't see that its too hard to comply. Now I am just starting out but the list of things that I had to do to get licensed didn't seem to be that difficult, and this is basically the same list I am going by to pass inspections. As long as my chemicals are out of reach, sharp objects are taken care of, floors clean, heat on in winter, snow cleared off steps, outlets covered, cots/blankets stored properly, paperwork up to date.. etc.. The way I see it they can come visit me every week if they want to. I would enjoy the company for a few minutes and after they don't find anything I would bid them a safe journey home and "see ya next week"

I agree that its a rather long list of things that need to be done their way.. but its definitely not impossible to do. If I can be in compliance the first time they visit, I shouldn't have any problem passing the next 20 times they are here too.

Of course as I mentioned above, if they show up at a time I don't have any kids here.. well.. I may fail miserably. If I am closed, then no kids are showing up, and if my last kid left for the day and its only 3pm.. well there is about a zero chance that anyone is dropping off that late, so I very well may have a few violations when my inspection is at 4:20.

[nanglgrl]

I do agree with the fact that violations do matter, its just that (and I apologize if I am offending anyone by saying this) I don't see that its too hard to comply. Now I am just starting out but the list of things that I had to do to get licensed didn't seem to be that difficult, and this is basically the same list I am going by to pass inspections. As long as my chemicals are out of reach, sharp objects are taken care of, floors clean, heat on in winter, snow cleared off steps, outlets covered, cots/blankets stored properly, paperwork up to date.. etc.. The way I see it they can come visit me every week if they want to. I would enjoy the company for a few minutes and after they don't find anything I would bid them a safe journey home and "see ya next week"

I agree that its a rather long list of things that need to be done their way.. but its definitely not impossible to do. If I can be in compliance the first time they visit, I shouldn't have any problem passing the next 20 times they are here too.

Of course as I mentioned above, if they show up at a time I don't have any kids here.. well.. I may fail miserably. If I am closed, then no kids are showing up, and if my last kid left for the day and its only 3pm.. well there is about a zero chance that anyone is dropping off that late, so I very well may have a few violations when my inspection is at 4:20.

I apologize in advance if this sounds snarky, I really don't mean it to. I had a bad non-daycare related experience about an hour ago so I'm a tad miffed and I'm afraid it may come through while I'm typing this but please know it's unintentional.
What if you have a child who's physical expires and you know they have an appointment the next week so you let them come but that's when you get inspected? Ding! Violation. Of course you could refuse to take them but the truth is most insurance companies won't pay for another physical until it's been 12 months since the last one and a lot of doctors are booked months out. Ding! Health violation. What if they come at a time you are cooking and you have a knife on the counter (that you are using)? Ding! Safety Violation. What if your husband was working on a project and left tools sitting out in the yard but you didn't know because you hadn't went outside yet that day? What if you just finished painting and you took your smoke detector off of the wall to let the paint dry (and set it a few feet away on a shelf), the fact that the woodwork is taped off and the screw that holds the smoke detector in place isn't going to prevent them from giving you another safety violation. These are all real things that have happened to me or others that I know. A lot of states post these findings online and a lot of them don't give an explanation so all parents see are "health violation", "safety violation" etc. I had a friend who's daughter takes medication. She left an empty pill bottle on her counter upstairs by the phone (she uses her basement for daycare) so she would remember to call in the prescription and she was dinged. I've heard some inspectors say something is fine and others who interpret the reg differently. It is easy to do most of what the majority of states ask but keeping up with some of it is a task especially when you do childcare in your home and you have your own children and a husband that can inadvertently cause you to break a regulation. I got 100% on my last unannounced inspection but I know that all it takes is one little bitty thing to screw things up.
Thankfully I'm in Iowa and they haven't started posting providers inspection reports online yet but they plan to and if they do it like other states I will be out of this field quicker than I planned.

[Familycare71]

I do agree with the fact that violations do matter, its just that (and I apologize if I am offending anyone by saying this) I don't see that its too hard to comply. Now I am just starting out but the list of things that I had to do to get licensed didn't seem to be that difficult, and this is basically the same list I am going by to pass inspections. As long as my chemicals are out of reach, sharp objects are taken care of, floors clean, heat on in winter, snow cleared off steps, outlets covered, cots/blankets stored properly, paperwork up to date.. etc.. The way I see it they can come visit me every week if they want to. I would enjoy the company for a few minutes and after they don't find anything I would bid them a safe journey home and "see ya next week"

I agree that its a rather long list of things that need to be done their way.. but its definitely not impossible to do. If I can be in compliance the first time they visit, I shouldn't have any problem passing the next 20 times they are here too.

Of course as I mentioned above, if they show up at a time I don't have any kids here.. well.. I may fail miserably. If I am closed, then no kids are showing up, and if my last kid left for the day and its only 3pm.. well there is about a zero chance that anyone is dropping off that late, so I very well may have a few violations when my inspection is at 4:20.

I still apreciate where you are coming from . I am not offended . My life may be different than yours- the four other people living in my home may be diff than the number and personalities of those living with you. Maybe you have a self contained space in your home for daycare. Maybe you get a kick out of double checking medical records each week, maybe your more stringent than I am... I have no idea
All I know is I don't like agreeing to thing I don't agree with. I think the state over steps for me and has taken some giant steps with the new regs. I don't want people coming in my house on average every three months... I don't like them telling me I can be violated when I'm closed. I don't like them dictating my screen time, I don't like them saying what beverages I can serve...
I have also been at this quite a long time. I do what I do and I know I do it well. Some may see me as closed minded or less progressive- I see it as knowing that I know how to do my job better, for me, than some guy behind a desk. I want to be a self employed business owner- I am successful- people like what I offer and I have kept numerous kids safe since I was 12. That's my beef-
But I'm glad it works for you . I am going to have to make it work for me too because I have decided NYS won't get me out quite so easily.

[Familycare71]

I apologize in advance if this sounds snarky, I really don't mean it to. I had a bad non-daycare related experience about an hour ago so I'm a tad miffed and I'm afraid it may come through while I'm typing this but please know it's unintentional.
What if you have a child who's physical expires and you know they have an appointment the next week so you let them come but that's when you get inspected? Ding! Violation. Of course you could refuse to take them but the truth is most insurance companies won't pay for another physical until it's been 12 months since the last one and a lot of doctors are booked months out. Ding! Health violation. What if they come at a time you are cooking and you have a knife on the counter (that you are using)? Ding! Safety Violation. What if your husband was working on a project and left tools sitting out in the yard but you didn't know because you hadn't went outside yet that day? What if you just finished painting and you took your smoke detector off of the wall to let the paint dry (and set it a few feet away on a shelf), the fact that the woodwork is taped off and the screw that holds the smoke detector in place isn't going to prevent them from giving you another safety violation. These are all real things that have happened to me or others that I know. A lot of states post these findings online and a lot of them don't give an explanation so all parents see are "health violation", "safety violation" etc. I had a friend who's daughter takes medication. She left an empty pill bottle on her counter upstairs by the phone (she uses her basement for daycare) so she would remember to call in the prescription and she was dinged. I've heard some inspectors say something is fine and others who interpret the reg differently. It is easy to do most of what the majority of states ask but keeping up with some of it is a task especially when you do childcare in your home and you have your own children and a husband that can inadvertently cause you to break a regulation. I got 100% on my last unannounced inspection but I know that all it takes is one little bitty thing to screw things up.
Thankfully I'm in Iowa and they haven't started posting providers inspection reports online yet but they plan to and if they do it like other states I will be out of this field quicker than I planned.

Exactly!! I have had a posted safety violation because my husband left cough syrup out on a bathroom counter that the children would not be using. It was before I learned (read it was the lesson that taught me) to be very specific about where I wanted "approved areas" to be. I just didn't realize me saying: we don't go down there wasn't enough.
Or the fact that I didn't make a parent miss work just because their dr was being a pain about filling out updated imm.
Some things are learned with nothing but time .

[KidGrind]

I got dinged for leaves on my porch.

I live were there is a lot of trees. It wasn’t a pile of leaves. There were maybe 2 dozen in the corners.

Me: You want me to sweep leaves all day or actually watch the kids?

Her: It’s a safety hazard.

Me: I hear you. They’re not covering the doorway or path. There are trees; the wind blows during the day.

Her: I know. You understand?

Me: No. I don’t have any interest in debating leaves. My focus is the kids. Go for it.

It’s not the inspections that have some providers on edge. It’s some of the ridiculous expectations, various interpretations or inspecting personnel who feel they HAVE to ding you on something.

Usually when I tell other providers my guidelines for operating they say, “No thank you.”

I have monthly inspections. Then I have a yearly inspection where 4 to 5 entities come in to inspect. For the 1st time a state’s (New York) regulations seem to me. No way I would be comfortable with someone inspecting my entire home after an initial opening. I think my family’s private spaces such as bedrooms should be off limits. If I am closed for the day, I am not allowing anyone in.

[Familycare71]

I got dinged for leaves on my porch.

I live were there is a lot of trees. It wasn’t a pile of leaves. There were maybe 2 dozen in the corners.

Me: You want me to sweep leaves all day or actually watch the kids?

Her: It’s a safety hazard.

Me: I hear you. They’re not covering the doorway or path. There are trees; the wind blows during the day.

Her: I know. You understand?

Me: No. I don’t have any interest in debating leaves. My focus is the kids. Go for it.

It’s not the inspections that have some providers on edge. It’s some of the ridiculous expectations, various interpretations or inspecting personnel who feel they HAVE to ding you on something.

Usually when I tell other providers my guidelines for operating they say, “No thank you.”

I have monthly inspections. Then I have a yearly inspection where 4 to 5 entities come in to inspect. For the 1st time a state’s (New York) regulations seem to me. No way I would be comfortable with someone inspecting my entire home after an initial opening. I think my family’s private spaces such as bedrooms should be off limits. If I am closed for the day, I am not allowing anyone in.

[Laurel]

I can't believe I'm saying this because I hate it that our inspectors can look in any room in our house but we have had providers here that have hidden children. It happens. So they made the rule for that reason. Mine does peek in every room but she doesn't go in and open closets or drawers or anything.

We have inspections every 3 months but we know what month. It is unannounced though. Someone said they would quit if they had that many inspections. It is a pain but not that bad but then we have a reasonable person doing the inspection. We also have to get relicensed once a year but that inspection is just like the other ones except for a little extra paperwork. We also have our inspections posted on the county licensing website. It is public record.

I agree with what someone else said. Anytime you are told you are breaking a rule ask them to show you on the actual ordinance which rule you are breaking. If you disagree be polite but ask them to put their reasoning in writing. I've never had to do that but a seasoned provider told us that it sometimes make them back down from an unreasonable stance like the situation with the leaves above. I would also take a picture of the porch with the leaves so there would be no questions as to how many leaves we were talking about. Some providers here haven't liked a decsion by their inspector so had to go above their heads to the supervisor and they won. So their word isn't always law. I'd be nice and polite but just get it documented to your satisfaction in case you need to go over their head.

Laurel

[melskids]

And see...I think I'm finding all of this so hard to digest BECAUSE my licensor is so good. She wouldn't come if I've told her I'm closed. She's never looked in my bedrooms as long as the door is locked. She would never write me up for a knife on the counter while I am there using it for meal prep. Leaves on the porch?! She wouldn't look twice.

I guess I should just count my blessings that she is a pretty cool lady.

[KidGrind]

I can't believe I'm saying this because I hate it that our inspectors can look in any room in our house but we have had providers here that have hidden children. It happens. So they made the rule for that reason. Mine does peek in every room but she doesn't go in and open closets or drawers or anything.

We have inspections every 3 months but we know what month. It is unannounced though. Someone said they would quit if they had that many inspections. It is a pain but not that bad but then we have a reasonable person doing the inspection. We also have to get relicensed once a year but that inspection is just like the other ones except for a little extra paperwork. We also have our inspections posted on the county licensing website. It is public record.

I agree with what someone else said. Anytime you are told you are breaking a rule ask them to show you on the actual ordinance which rule you are breaking. If you disagree be polite but ask them to put their reasoning in writing. I've never had to do that but a seasoned provider told us that it sometimes make them back down from an unreasonable stance like the situation with the leaves above. I would also take a picture of the porch with the leaves so there would be no questions as to how many leaves we were talking about. Some providers here haven't liked a decsion by their inspector so had to go above their heads to the supervisor and they won. So their word isn't always law. I'd be nice and polite but just get it documented to your satisfaction in case you need to go over their head.

Laurel

I’ve documented and have met with higher ups. It has been a retaliatory situation in my case. I have close to approximately 50+ documentation pages. Now what I’ve been complaining about & stating for over a year, others are seeing. Recently some inspections have been removed from my file because I wouldn’t sit back and just take it. Once this particular individual visited my home 15 times in one month.

Recently interim management suggested I go through the state to receive my license. Then I could eliminate dealing with the ridiculous.

I should add I am not in New York. I just understand why many providers have some concerns. I get inspections are important in an attempt to KEEP CHILDREN SAFE & weed out unsatisfactory providers. I just believe some personnel do not comprehend the regulations or abuse their positions.

[melskids]

OK.....this is what I was told.

This is the new reg:

2) Child day care providers must admit inspectors and other representatives of the Office onto the grounds and premises at any time during their hours of operation or while children are in care for the purpose of conducting inspections. Such inspectors and representatives must be given free access to the building or buildings used by the provider, staff and children, and to any records of the provider.

If I call her and tell her I am closed, then I am NOT operating during those hours.

I mean no disrespect to YOUR registrar, but this is the BS I don't like about them being allowed to interpret the regs any way they see fit.

She also said access to the building means YES, looking in the room, but not going through personal belongings such as underwear drawers.

[Leanna]

I do agree with the fact that violations do matter, its just that (and I apologize if I am offending anyone by saying this) I don't see that its too hard to comply. Now I am just starting out but the list of things that I had to do to get licensed didn't seem to be that difficult, and this is basically the same list I am going by to pass inspections. As long as my chemicals are out of reach, sharp objects are taken care of, floors clean, heat on in winter, snow cleared off steps, outlets covered, cots/blankets stored properly, paperwork up to date.. etc.. The way I see it they can come visit me every week if they want to. I would enjoy the company for a few minutes and after they don't find anything I would bid them a safe journey home and "see ya next week"

I agree that its a rather long list of things that need to be done their way.. but its definitely not impossible to do. If I can be in compliance the first time they visit, I shouldn't have any problem passing the next 20 times they are here too.

Of course as I mentioned above, if they show up at a time I don't have any kids here.. well.. I may fail miserably. If I am closed, then no kids are showing up, and if my last kid left for the day and its only 3pm.. well there is about a zero chance that anyone is dropping off that late, so I very well may have a few violations when my inspection is at 4:20.

I bust my butt keeping things clean, safe, and within regulations here. Even so, life is not perfect and it doesn't take much to get cited.

Here are a few examples where, despite all of the prep. in the world, I still got cited.

#1: House is clean & safe. DCK's are here & we are doing our thing. Lic. shows up (let me interject that I really respect & like my lic. rep. She is very by the book and isn't afraid to say, "Let me check with my supervisor" if she isn't 100% sure about something.) and does an inspection. Well, my two boys had been repairing their skateboards in the backyard and left a can of WD-40 out. Even though I clearly would have seen it and picked it up when we got outside I got cited for it.

#2: All trash cans indoors and out must have lids on them. The lid blew off my outdoor trash can & I didn't know. Cited.

#3: DCB has a medical condition and I had to call an ambulance for him. The EMT wanted his information for the doctor at the hospital and I gave him DCB's info from file. You have to inform lic. if you have to call an ambulance for a child and they come do an inspection. I got cited for not having DCB's paperwork even though it was less than 24 hrs. since he got sick, he wasn't in attendance that day, and I explained why I didn't have his info. (This was when we were first learning about DCB's condition. Now I keep copies in case i have to call 911 and they need info to take with them.)

#4 All children must have current physicals on record. There is no grace period giving parents time to get the physical done - if the physical expires on March 1, you have to have a physical in their file on or before March 1st. However, as someone else already pointed out, insurance companies will not pay for a physical until it is one year and a day after their last one. Then the doctor may not have an opening or, even if you are lucky enough to snag an appointment this day, the doctor often has to reschedule. So do you tell a parent that their perfectly healthy child has to be excluded from care until they are able to get a physical (which they might have to wait up to two weeks for an opening)? Ding.

Again, i don't think anyone is saying that they are against the inspections themselves. It is how they are done. It is the unrealistic expectations. It is the regulations that are unenforceable unless our privacy is seriously, seriously invaded.

[KidGrind]

Again, i don't think anyone is saying that they are against the inspections themselves. It is how they are done. It is the unrealistic expectations. It is the regulations that are unenforceable unless our privacy is seriously, seriously invaded.

DING! DING! DING!