I Don't Know What To Do Anymore????? (Long)

[daycare]

Is he destructive on purpose?

When he "will not listen" is it simple lack of attention/concentration or is he being defiant?

Do you have a way to keep him away from smaller kids?

I believe it is all of them above.

Yes I can keep him from the smaller kids, but then he has to stay in the preschool room with us.

this kids need 100% attention all the time.

like when he does a puzzle, he will fit one piece in and then jump up and down, run all over the place, yell, scream, clap his hands and ALWAYS has to show every person in the house. He will do it for each and every piece.

[daycare]

why hasn't mom did anything or brought him to the dr.
also, at night, since he can't turn himself off, maybe mom should try some melatonin. I know some don't agree with it, but it does work. Im wondering if he's so over tired now that he just doesn't know how to control it-like a second wind.
also, how is his eating and what is he eating. I also think maybe speaking to him in short sentences will work too.
also, is mom making excuses for the bad behavior--like the running on the field would have resulted in a punishment kwim.

We eat healthy here, I am not too sure how he eats at home. Mom works for an organic food company, but I am not going to assume that they eat all of that food.

I don't know why mom has not talked to the doc about it. Honestly, it just recently really escalated.

The mom does and did discipline him for what happen at the soccer field. Then again, I am not there, so I don't know what exactly she is doing.

THis is why I need to sit and talk with her and we need to figure out how to help him. I don't know what it is and I really want to make sure that he gets what he needs. Even if that means my place is not the right environment for him.

[Cat Herder]

I agree with everyone else.. Keep talking to mom about having him evaluated. Unfortunately, that has been a losing battle for me lately as more and more parents seem to want to ignore this stuff until school age. Making the appts and following through on the paperwork seems to turn them off about half-way through..

For you: http://www.additudemag.com/adhd-web/article/4646.html

Even without a DX these strategies can help you cope.

[itlw8]

As a mom with an ADD child and now 2 dgc with ADHD I would say there is a good chance he is.. BUT I also think there is more going one here than just that. I would suggest he get evaluated and services what ever it is it is interfering with his participation in group activities. That alone would get him into a special services program.

It is unlikely meds would be tried until school age but even if they do it is a lot of behavior modification and even learning different parenting techniques.

Weighted vests work for some kids for circle time. Keep it short no longer than 5 minutes for him then he needs to stand up and move.

We tried diet but it made no difference but I have read SOME children with gluten allergies or food dyes can cause the same symptoms. A total elimination diet is the only way to find out.

[Childminder]

Contact his school district to see if they have a referral program in place that you can refer him thru. You will have to get the parent on board but ours is helpful with that also. We also have a "clearinghouse" of sorts that puts you in touch with the right programs and organizations that he might benefit from, called Common Ground. Try United Way? Google his problem and your county or district to see if anything pops up. Local children's hospitals or even your local R&R for day care.

[Jack Sprat]

If mom says she has no idea what to do anymore...how come she hasn't brought this to the attention of her pediatrician already?

As a parent, that would be my first thing to rule out.

How much time does this child get outdoors?

Not walking or going on a nature hike or to the zoo or anything like that...I mean "full on outside run around like a crazy man" outside time?

9 out 10 cases of kids who "appear" to be ADHD simply lack the outside or large motor time.

To me it sounds like this kid is developmentally not equipped or mature enough to manage structured academics.

He sounds like the type of kid who needs to be in an environment that allows him to physically move when ever he needs to.

The moving, rubbing and constant active behaviors are signs that are basically screaming "I am NOT ready to sit in a classroom all day...I need to be a little kid and just play and run and play and run"

I know you run a preschool type program but in my honest opinion this kid doesn't sound like he is ready for or in need of that type of set up.....kwim?

Sounds to me like he is simply missing out on the fundamentals of play.

Needing to physically move is just like sleep. If that need isn't met, he isn't going to succeed in other areas such as sleep and eating and paying attention...etc.

My first thoughts! Thanks for saving me the typing BC.
Also, is she in concerned and he is indeed not sleeping which can lead to be hyper etc she needs to talk to his ped. But, first I would try doing what BC said.

[Margarete]

This ^^^ and as a person with ADHD myself I will let you in on a few things.

4. We are not meant to be cubicle people, the school system labeled us "disordered" but in reality, we are more likely to survive in the wild than most "model students". We also thrive and cope better in times of crisis. It is not a disability, it is an adaptation.... it just does not work well with our current educational system.

Love this comment!

[Unregistered]

Also sleep deprivation mimics ADD or ADHD BIG time!

[misslori50]

Is he Autistic? Sounds like the mom needs to get him in to the doc asap. Poor kid

[daycare]

Is he Autistic? Sounds like the mom needs to get him in to the doc asap. Poor kid

I am not too sure what is going on with this child. I will be meeting with my teacher later tonight to go over my eval, and we plan to talk about it then. I can't recall her exact background and title, but she has years of experience working with special needs and I believe a degree in child physiology.

[Margarete]

I think the sleep deprivation is definitely playing a role in this. If he's not napping, often going to sleep after 1am, and waking up at 5:30-6am, he is not even getting half of what is typically needed for his age. Of course you can't 'force' someone to sleep. Keeping a log at home and at daycare of actual sleep I'm sure would be helpful for the professionals looking at 'the big picture'.

[daycare]

I think the sleep deprivation is definitely playing a role in this. If he's not napping, often going to sleep after 1am, and waking up at 5:30-6am, he is not even getting half of what is typically needed for his age. Of course you can't 'force' someone to sleep. Keeping a log at home and at daycare of actual sleep I'm sure would be helpful for the professionals looking at 'the big picture'.

very good point. I will be keeping a log of food intake, sleep, behavior and so on. I will share with you my feed back from my teacher..

[Soccermom]

I have a 6 year old DCB who has been diagnosed with Asperger's and Anxiety Disorder and your description of this boy sounds a lot like him.

Last year was tough with him but DCM is really great and works really hard to improve his behavior including diet changes and sleep pattern changes. He is not on any meds but did a lot of therapy camps throughout the summer and we have noticed a big improvement here with him.

DCM sends me lots of tricks, games, and workbooks for him to make things easier on me.

I hate to be mean here but it sounds as though DCM is kind of lazy....lack of sleep can cause major issues for kids, especially kids who are predisposed to anxiety Problems or ADHD. Overly tired kids don't sleep well and tend to not nap well either. They also have more nightmares, night terrors and don't sleep as deeply. DCM needs to get on top of this and have this kid evaluated or start trying different techniques of relaxation for him in order to soothe him to sleep at night! He may also be suffering from major anxiety from the divorce, especially since he seems so intent on getting your approval when he does something good like find the right puzzle piece. No matter what, he should be seen by someone!

In the meantime, here are a few tricks of the trade for the little guy I have -

Tons of praise when he is doing what is "expected" of him.

Soothing music.

Lots of warning and explanation about what is coming up next to make transitions easier on him.

I have an area that he can go to when he doesn't want to participate in group activities and I always tell him that he can join in if he likes but there is no pressure.

He wears a busy necklace to keep his hands busy.

White noise during rest times.

Flip and find books, busy boards and sorting games work great for busy hands as well.

I try to limit the amount of active time we do indoors when he is here as well because once he goes up, he has a hard time coming back down. We save movement games for outdoors where he can kind of let loose without too many limitations.

Good luck and I hope DCM steps up to the plate and starts taking her mom role seriously for his sake.

[Angelsj]

So do you think it would be wise to just tell mom that at this point I really feel that this needs to be addressed by a medical professional?

I don't know if a professional would be able to address this just yet. And she probably isn't going to want to medicate anyway. I am putting together a pamphlet on Adhd and sleep that I could send you when I am done if you like.
There are several studies that indicate they go hand in hand. Adhd makes it hard to sleep, and parents are exhausted so they will do just about ANYTHING to get the child to lay down and be quiet for a bit. We all know what that will do, so the behavior escalates, the sleep deprivation gets worse, and the Adhd escalates. Huge vicious circle.
The study showed if you can stop the sleep issues with quality parenting (adhd style) the child is able to better focus, and feels more secure, so the adhd symptoms die down, etc...

[Margarete]

Considering that he is laying on his mat quiet, but fidgeting for 2 hours at daycare, I really don't think this is a 'quality parenting' issue causing lack of sleep. Again, you can't force someone to sleep, they put him to bed at 9... Perhaps taking any distractions out of his room.... but considering what's happening at daycare I'm not sure this would help either.
He probably should be recorded at home at night, so they can start documenting actual sleep (and also possibly how restless even that sleep is), and talk to or be evaluated by child sleep specialist.
I read something about removing tonsils and adenoids to help children sleep who had issues with those being large and causing sleep apnea, hopefully it's not a more serious medical condition causing lack of sleep. Many years ago I read about a 2 year old who had a surgery on something happening in his brain to help with not EVER getting deep sleep, his behavior and development issues took care of themselves after (I can't find it now, and don't remember the specifics).
If he really is getting less then 4-5 hours of sleep a day, this needs to be addressed, and I don't think the 'standard' answers of what to do to help a child sleep is going to solve this.