Desperate

[Unregistered]

Exactly

This is my first time posting, so hopefully I am doing this right. I also live in PA. Same city as the poster, actually. I have a licensed Family Child Care home. This allows me to care for 6 unrelated children. In order to obtain this, you must get permission from the municipality in which you live. Some are easy to obtain, some are not. Some townships only allow 3 children, even though the state allows 6, if you are licensed. I too have struggled with my township to obtain a Group license to care for 12 unrelated children. I also went before zoning, which was $450. I didn't hire an attorney and I was denied. The reasoning was they had nothing in their ordinance, and it would have to be rewritten. It is very confusing. I could go back and fight it, but that would require hiring an attorney, paying the fee and it is still not a guarantee I would win.
My point is, yes, the OP should have obtained a license from the state if she was caring for more than 3 children. That is the law. However, I don't understand why these municipalities are basically making the decision on whether or not a person has a daycare in their home. The state, DPW, is who I feel should be making the decisions. If that were the case, maybe we wouldn't have as many illegal daycares as we do.
Is PA the only state that requires permission from your municipality? (A permit) Or do other states require that as well?

You hit it right on. The township said I have no hardship. Who are they to say I have no hardship? I have 4 children, one in collage another starting next year. My husband is retiring in 8 months and there will be no income besides his retirement. For the one person that said her husband is former military, I am not using his military to get special treatment, I am simply saying I have the right to work and provide for my family and the right to choose what I do and the township is denying me that right. I am not running a brothel, I am running a daycare that I am more than willing to comply to all the laws. The state law of Pennsylvania prohibits singing in the bathtub. Should I abide by that as well? Honestly to me being licensed means nothing. There are bad providers on both sides. Priest and ministers molest does that stop you from going to church? There are bad doctors, does that stop you from going to the hospital? There are good and bad teachers does that stop you from sending your kids to school? All these people have swore to do the best of their ability and not to harm and they do. My point here is Don't tell me I am a bad person because I am not licensed please, because that is simply "wrong". Also to the woman that runs the daycare in York, Pa I would love to talk with you. It would be so nice to have another daycare provider friend.
Thank you all

[Memc2001]

At least there is a lock on the freezer

Not a laughing matter, sorry. I am always amazed where some parents are willing to leave their kids. I hope they are prosecuted to the fullest extent for these deplorable conditions and for using the system.

[Unregistered]

You hit it right on. The township said I have no hardship. Who are they to say I have no hardship? I have 4 children, one in collage another starting next year. My husband is retiring in 8 months and there will be no income besides his retirement. For the one person that said her husband is former military, I am not using his military to get special treatment, I am simply saying I have the right to work and provide for my family and the right to choose what I do and the township is denying me that right. I am not running a brothel, I am running a daycare that I am more than willing to comply to all the laws. The state law of Pennsylvania prohibits singing in the bathtub. Should I abide by that as well? Honestly to me being licensed means nothing. There are bad providers on both sides. Priest and ministers molest does that stop you from going to church? There are bad doctors, does that stop you from going to the hospital? There are good and bad teachers does that stop you from sending your kids to school? All these people have swore to do the best of their ability and not to harm and they do. My point here is Don't tell me I am a bad person because I am not licensed please, because that is simply "wrong". Also to the woman that runs the daycare in York, Pa I would love to talk with you. It would be so nice to have another daycare provider friend.
Thank you all

Agree!

[Blackcat31]

You hit it right on. The township said I have no hardship. Who are they to say I have no hardship? I have 4 children, one in collage another starting next year. My husband is retiring in 8 months and there will be no income besides his retirement. For the one person that said her husband is former military, I am not using his military to get special treatment, I am simply saying I have the right to work and provide for my family and the right to choose what I do and the township is denying me that right. I am not running a brothel, I am running a daycare that I am more than willing to comply to all the laws. The state law of Pennsylvania prohibits singing in the bathtub. Should I abide by that as well? Honestly to me being licensed means nothing. There are bad providers on both sides. Priest and ministers molest does that stop you from going to church? There are bad doctors, does that stop you from going to the hospital? There are good and bad teachers does that stop you from sending your kids to school? All these people have swore to do the best of their ability and not to harm and they do. My point here is Don't tell me I am a bad person because I am not licensed please, because that is simply "wrong". Also to the woman that runs the daycare in York, Pa I would love to talk with you. It would be so nice to have another daycare provider friend.
Thank you all

Again, NO ONE said you were a bad person. :confused:

Operating a childcare without a license when one IS required IS wrong.

I can't change that. It has NO bearing on you being a bad person or not.

If you choose to run a child care ILLEGALLY, then you are absolutely breaking the law but still that doesn't mean you are or aren't a bad person.....

There is a BIG difference between what posters are saying to you and what you are hearing them say.

I am sorry this is happening to you. I am sorry your township sounds corrupted, biases, and/or unfair. I wish I had advice but I don't live in your area so I am unfamiliar with your laws.

Please consider registering with the forum. We really are a group of friendly, supportive and helpful guys and gals.

Oh, and yes if it is against the law to sing in the bathtub and you choose to take that risk, then you would be in trouble.... I think it's silly but I don't make the laws, I only obey them.

As for your references to bad doctors and/or ministers and priests....if they were breaking the law I would turn them in and not feel badly about it. I would also do my homework as a consumer/client and make sure my doctor and/or minister (as well as my child care provider) was working within the laws of the state...if they weren't I would choose to go elsewhere and seek services through someone who operating legally.

[lovemylife]

In Iowa there is a law that men with mustaches can't kiss a woman in public! Some laws are just stupid.

[Rockgirl]

My point here is Don't tell me I am a bad person because I am not licensed please, because that is simply "wrong"

I still can't find this anywhere. Can you show me? I must be missing it.

[Cat Herder]

For the one person that said her husband is former military, I am not using his military to get special treatment, I am simply saying I have the right to work and provide for my family and the right to choose what I do and the township is denying me that right.

I am sorry but you are using every possible excuse you can think of to both rationalize and validate the fact that you continued to operate illegally.

The point I made is that they do not hold water and will hurt your case badly.

"the township is denying me that right"


^^^^^^ THAT should be your starting point.

"What can I do to fight my township" should be your focus. IMHO, you should stop focusing on being a victim and fight.

Please understand, I am on your side. I WANT you to succeed. Nobody thinks you are a bad person. You are reading LEGAL advice and taking it as PERSONAL condemnation. Most of us would be willing to sign your digital petition......

[nanglgrl]

In Iowa there is a law that men with mustaches can't kiss a woman in public! Some laws are just stupid.

Being an Iowan I think that's a great law, mustaches gross me out! ::

[nanglgrl]

I'm in NY and my state has a law that says towns/villages can not impose any further restrictions - so my state says I can care for up to 8 kids (6 under school aged 2 and up and two school aged) the town can't come in and tell me I can only have 3. State overrules town, just like US law usually overrules state law (I'm sure there are exceptions but I'm too lazy to look it up)
Rather then continue to try to fight the town/municipalities, I would try to gather as many other providers as possible and move higher up the chain. LOBBY, LOBBY, LOBBY. Get your dc space and schedule in top notch order and invite your legislators in for an event. Invite the media in to showcase your business (make sure you have written permission from any dc clients in case children are filmed) Start a campaign to raise awareness about the benefits of in homes - smaller numbers, fewer illnesses, more consistency of care because of one or two primary caregivers. Highlight what you specifically offer parents - maybe you do preschool, maybe you are willing to work odd hours, etc. DON'T BE NEGATIVE!!!!! Make sure anything you send out has been spell and grammar checked. You want to present yourself as the conscientious professional you are. DO NOT OPERATE ILLEGALLY, as this will only hurt your case.

Essentially you do want your state to know that local munies are changing their laws, and imposing more restrictions - and there is nothing like and old fashioned peeing contest to get things rolling ::::
Best of luck!

Start a change.com petition. Attach state and local officials to it and every time it's signed they will get an email. Make sure your grammar is impecable, I'm sure some of us could help you. Share it through Facebook, send it through email and post it here.
Iowa required providers to use a copper line based landline phone a few years back even though they are becoming outdated are expensive and not every area in Iowa has that type of service available. The actual code just said we had to have a landline so many providers were using Mediacom, Magic Jack etc. (much cheaper and more reliable in most cases) the state (after years of things being this way) then started to tell providers they had to use copper based lines and Mediacom, Magic Jack weren't acceptable even though it wasn't what the code said.
I started a petition and shared it on Facebook and on this forum. A person on this forum had contacts with our child are union and let them know what was going on. The state rescinded and started letting providers use non copper based lines and not even a year later they removed the having a landline requirement entirely. Now we can just use our cell phones as long as we have every child's information in our phone. You can complain and fight or you can just complain, only one of those options has the chance of having results.

[lovemylife]

Being an Iowan I think that's a great law, mustaches gross me out! ::

Hahaha! They are gross! But still a crazy law!

[Blackcat31]

Start a change.com petition. Attach state and local officials to it and every time it's signed they will get an email. Make sure your grammar is impecable, I'm sure some of us could help you. Share it through Facebook, send it through email and post it here.
Iowa required providers to use a copper line based landline phone a few years back even though they are becoming outdated are expensive and not every area in Iowa has that type of service available. The actual code just said we had to have a landline so many providers were using Mediacom, Magic Jack etc. (much cheaper and more reliable in most cases) the state (after years of things being this way) then started to tell providers they had to use copper based lines and Mediacom, Magic Jack weren't acceptable even though it wasn't what the code said.
I started a petition and shared it on Facebook and on this forum. A person on this forum had contacts with our child are union and let them know what was going on. The state rescinded and started letting providers use non copper based lines and not even a year later they removed the having a landline requirement entirely. Now we can just use our cell phones as long as we have every child's information in our phone. You can complain and fight or you can just complain, only one of those options has the chance of having results.

That's cool! I am glad you got that taken care of, I remember the thread and how much confusion and outrage there was about it all. happyface

[Sugar Magnolia]

Oy. Palm to face, shaking head in disbelief.

It's really really really simple:
Legally unlicensed......OK

Operating illegally......NOT OK.

Questions?

Re: the forum.....also simple. "support" does not mean everybody agreed with you. Sorry to be so blunt, but it is what it is.

[nanglgrl]

That's cool! I am glad you got that taken care of, I remember the thread and how much confusion and outrage there was about it all. happyface

It really felt great Blackcat and it wouldn't have been possible without the support from this forum.

[KidGrind]

I didn't read any comment written stating you were a bad individual. I read posts that mention you were breaking the law. You admitted as much to that fact yourself.

I sympathize with you. I recently went through a major battle to open my daycare. Certain employees with the power to unjustly block my opening, did so for months. Why? I stood up for myself and what was right. I spoke up when they were asking me to be in direct violation of regulations.

I am opened now and still experiencing difficulty. However, I refuse to back down. Basically they don't want Family Childcare Providers "competing" with their facilities. The funny thing is I am not competing with anyone. I am trying to supplement my family's income in the profession I love. I am offering a much needed service in a community.

I pray you don't give up and stand up for your chosen career.

Note: I could've done what many in this community do; open & operate illegal home daycares. Yet, I refrained. I have suffered financially. It's alright, I've persevered. By the way, those who tried to block my opening are under investigation as I type.

Off topic: I hope the pictures shared are not a true representation of someone's home who is providing childcare. The thought of parents dropping off their children in that mess is appalling.

[Unregistered]

I need you

I'm in NY and my state has a law that says towns/villages can not impose any further restrictions - so my state says I can care for up to 8 kids (6 under school aged 2 and up and two school aged) the town can't come in and tell me I can only have 3. State overrules town, just like US law usually overrules state law (I'm sure there are exceptions but I'm too lazy to look it up)
Rather then continue to try to fight the town/municipalities, I would try to gather as many other providers as possible and move higher up the chain. LOBBY, LOBBY, LOBBY. Get your dc space and schedule in top notch order and invite your legislators in for an event. Invite the media in to showcase your business (make sure you have written permission from any dc clients in case children are filmed) Start a campaign to raise awareness about the benefits of in homes - smaller numbers, fewer illnesses, more consistency of care because of one or two primary caregivers. Highlight what you specifically offer parents - maybe you do preschool, maybe you are willing to work odd hours, etc. DON'T BE NEGATIVE!!!!! Make sure anything you send out has been spell and grammar checked. You want to present yourself as the conscientious professional you are. DO NOT OPERATE ILLEGALLY, as this will only hurt your case.

Essentially you do want your state to know that local munies are changing their laws, and imposing more restrictions - and there is nothing like and old fashioned peeing contest to get things rolling ::::
Best of luck!

Wow, I need you here to help me. Can I fly you in for a week??? I am lost when it comes to legislators and stuff like that. My nerves are shot. I have lost 15 lbs in 7 days. I did a lot of thinking this weekend and am hoping to apply for a small without stirring up the township. I have a new lawyer and hope this will buy me time until I can possibly look into buying a small center when my DH retires. I am going to do a lot of praying that these neighbors will get off my back. I still have to go through the township and ask them AGAIN to please allow me to watch the 6 the state will allow me to have. I'm scared, not going to lie, I did a lot of crying because these same people who's kids grew up with mine, who's kids stayed days at a time at my house when they were little, can turn around and try and prevent me from having a day care. One neighbor told the township that parents need to learn to sacrifice and stay home with their kids then they would not need day care. He said that single moms can get assistance so he does not feel bad for them. The stuff people came up with was just crazy. One guy that does not even live by me said he has the right at his age not to listen to other peoples kids when he is home relaxing, then stated he did not even know I had been watching kids in my home. I hope you can see just how ridiculous this was and yet they won By the way all this is in a transcript so it is easy to prove I am not stretching the truth or making it up. Its all in black and white.

Thank you Ladies

Manny