Desperate

[Michael]

I do have sympathy for OP because she is having a hard time working through this complex situation but I do NOT have sympathy for anyone who provides care illegally.

I fully understand that there are some odd and unfair facts working against her but that still doesn't mean she can continue to provide care without meeting the township, state and/or city requirements.

I am grateful for her DH's service to our country but her DH fought for the rights of Americans who obey the laws of the country not so people could just do what they wanted when faced with unfairness.

Because we live in America, the OP has choices....one of which is to fight the unfairness she feels is happening to her.

I am sure the OP is probably a fine caregiver but we are a country of laws. I want to share with all of you someone that was concerned about an unlicensed daycare in PA. I just received this email sent to Daycare.com yesterday. I replied with information that was needed.

-----------------------------------email sent to Daycare.com

At ******* ** PA, you can find a daycare being run by a woman who gets paid under the table living in section 8 housing, she isn't licensed her home is not clean and the kitchen area is filthy. Her live in boyfriend doesn't work and lives off her welfare she gets from the state, I would appreciate immediate attention to this situation and unsanitary condition attached are pics of living room and kitchen area. thank you for your immediate action

==========================end of email

[missheather]

I am sure the OP is probably a fine caregiver but we are a country of laws. I want to share with all of you someone that was concerned about an unlicensed daycare in PA. I just received this yesterday. I replied with information that was needed.

-----------------------------------

At ******* ** PA, you can find a daycare being run by a woman who gets paid under the table living in section 8 housing, she isn't licensed her home is not clean and the kitchen area is filthy. Her live in boyfriend doesn't work and lives off her welfare she gets from the state, I would appreciate immediate attention to this situation and unsanitary condition attached are pics of living room and kitchen area. thank you for your immediate action

Wow I am shocked! As a parent I can not believe that another parent would leave a child there... Now I am not a clean-freak and am guilty of needing to vacuum and do a load of dishes BUT that house is shocking. Especially if children are there... Looks more like a Frathouse after a party!

[Michael]

Wow I am shocked! As a parent I can not believe that another parent would leave a child there... Now I am not a clean-freak and am guilty of needing to vacuum and do a load of dishes BUT that house is shocking. Especially if children are there... Looks more like a Frathouse after a party!

The kitchen table in itself is a "who done it". Is that a milk gallon sitting out or is the table being used for trash?

[msblake]

Wow!! I don't understand how a parent could leave their child there?! Even if they can't see it from the door I'm sure you could smell it! What do you mean immediate action? What do you want the members to do? Sorry I'm new.

[Cat Herder]

I see a johnny jump up, stuffed animals and some kids shoes... but am wondering HOW these photos were taken???

[Cat Herder]

What do you mean immediate action? What do you want the members to do? Sorry I'm new.

Few parents seem to know that they can (and should) report it to their own state licensing division. Even a quick call to confirm a provider HAS a license helps the rest of us, operating legally, enormously.

It is all a learning process..

They also don't realize they will get quicker action than we will.... It may be assumed that we are falsely reporting our competition and have a case of "sour grapes".

[Familycare71]

I see a johnny jump up, stuffed animals and some kids shoes... but am wondering HOW these photos were taken???

That was what I was wondering!!! :confused:

[Michael]

Wow!! I don't understand how a parent could leave their child there?! Even if they can't see it from the door I'm sure you could smell it! What do you mean immediate action? What do you want the members to do? Sorry I'm new.

The text I pasted was from a concerned parent/inlaw/neighbor email that was send to Daycare.com.
Being that we are Daycare.com, many on the internet see us as a source for childcare related issues. We are just not a forum. The person who wrote us may have thought we were the state/national licensing agency overseeing these issues. We gave the recipient the information they needed to further their cause or intention. I decided to POST their email here, while omitting address information, since the thread's subject had turned to unlawful operations and I felt the email related. I placed it here for discussion.

[Cat Herder]

I decided to POST their email here, while omitting address information, since the thread's subject had turned to unlawful operations and I felt the email related. I placed it here for discussion.

Thank you!!!!!!! happyface

[Margarete]

I am depressed enough and I thought I would get support here but I guess I was wrong. I have run a Day Care for 21 years. In 4 states because my husband is active duty. I have been licensed in every state but PA because my "township" said no. Not the state, the township. Not because my house needs repairs or anything like that. I live in a beautiful house and have 1,000 sq ft dedicated to my DC kids. I am more than willing to get licensed and abide by "the law". The 3 times DCW came out it was because of a neighbor saying I was watching some crazy amount of kids and I was not. Then they showed up again because of an anonamious call as usual and I had 1 extra due to an un scheduled drop off. I also had another woman here with me so really it should not have even been an issue. And for the record, it is because of the neighbor who is a bigwig she told me herself that she will get what she wants because she has the money. Most of you are making me out to be a bad person. That hurts because I am far from it. It blows my mind that my husband has been serving our country for 29 yrs and I get denied because of a couple neighbors that said if I get the license their property value will go down. "REALLY"!!! I have never come across people as hateful and self centered as the people in YORK, PA. I took the class, I already had all my clearances, and my house is safety checked. I have a year to be in compliance from taking the class (now only 5 months left), the next step was zoning in the township, that is where it ended. Yes it cost me $3,000. It was $450 to stand in front of the board, $250 for the sign I "had" to put in my yard and I hired a lawyer. Unfortunately the person I hired passed me to his son and he just was not experienced enough. One person that was at the meeting made fun of people, called me stupid, and ignorant. Never in my life saw this person before but he had every right to be there because he is from the same township. He was rude, sitting in the back mocking people as they spoke. Found out later he heard from a friend what the meeting was about and he said " I have nothing to do and it doesn't cost me anything so I'm going to have fun with it". Nice to know my life is a joke that someone find entertaining. I thought maybe the people here would understand how hurtful this is and since you care for children as well you could maybe sypasize. I do thank the person that looked all that information up, that was so kind of you. I do have all that information in the book I got from the class I had to take.

Thank You

I would check with the state to see if you need zoning clearance for the small. In California local can not restrict small family care homes, but I don't know about PA. Also with your 1 over compliance, was the other adult related to one of the children? Then you might be still okay, as the numbers don't apply to children related to the caregivers from what I read. If this is the case I would continue to ask for at least your remaining 5 months, otherwise not following everything required may have just cost you, and I'm sorry. You need to turn away an unscheduled drop off if it puts you out of compliance. Either way you should talk to a lawyer who is familiar with child care laws in your state to see what your immediate options are (look outside of your area if needed).

[GabsKids]

This is my first time posting, so hopefully I am doing this right. I also live in PA. Same city as the poster, actually. I have a licensed Family Child Care home. This allows me to care for 6 unrelated children. In order to obtain this, you must get permission from the municipality in which you live. Some are easy to obtain, some are not. Some townships only allow 3 children, even though the state allows 6, if you are licensed. I too have struggled with my township to obtain a Group license to care for 12 unrelated children. I also went before zoning, which was $450. I didn't hire an attorney and I was denied. The reasoning was they had nothing in their ordinance, and it would have to be rewritten. It is very confusing. I could go back and fight it, but that would require hiring an attorney, paying the fee and it is still not a guarantee I would win.
My point is, yes, the OP should have obtained a license from the state if she was caring for more than 3 children. That is the law. However, I don't understand why these municipalities are basically making the decision on whether or not a person has a daycare in their home. The state, DPW, is who I feel should be making the decisions. If that were the case, maybe we wouldn't have as many illegal daycares as we do.
Is PA the only state that requires permission from your municipality? (A permit) Or do other states require that as well?

[Cat Herder]

Is PA the only state that requires permission from your municipality? (A permit) Or do other states require that as well?

This question would make a great poll.

I know it is a State decision here, my community/city/county had no say in it. It is a *right* if you meet licensing requirements.

[Blackcat31]

This question would make a great poll.

I know it is a State decision here, my community/city/county had no say in it. It is a *right* if you meet licensing requirements.

Well, let's make a poll and ask everyone.... I will do it now

[caregiver]

The text I pasted was from a concerned parent/inlaw/neighbor email that was send to Daycare.com.
Being that we are Daycare.com, many on the internet see us as a source for childcare related issues. We are just not a forum. The person who wrote us may have thought we were the state/national licensing agency overseeing these issues. We gave the recipient the information they needed to further their cause or intention. I decided to POST their email here, while omitting address information, since the thread's subject had turned to unlawful operations and I felt the email related. I placed it here for discussion.

Thanks so much for getting the information to the recipient of this email.
All I can say is"WOW"! How can any parent in their right mind take their child to this daycare! This house is disgusting! I would be very afraid to even step into this house much less let my child be there.
All I can say is hopefully some authority will become aware of this situation and close her down. Also any parent who puts their child in this kind of home daycare must not be a very concerned parent and want the best for their child. Sorry to say that, but this is very distributing! Those pictures just make me want to cry,sorry, they are that bad and I feel so bad for the kids that are cared for there.

[Play Care]

This is my first time posting, so hopefully I am doing this right. I also live in PA. Same city as the poster, actually. I have a licensed Family Child Care home. This allows me to care for 6 unrelated children. In order to obtain this, you must get permission from the municipality in which you live. Some are easy to obtain, some are not. Some townships only allow 3 children, even though the state allows 6, if you are licensed. I too have struggled with my township to obtain a Group license to care for 12 unrelated children. I also went before zoning, which was $450. I didn't hire an attorney and I was denied. The reasoning was they had nothing in their ordinance, and it would have to be rewritten. It is very confusing. I could go back and fight it, but that would require hiring an attorney, paying the fee and it is still not a guarantee I would win.
My point is, yes, the OP should have obtained a license from the state if she was caring for more than 3 children. That is the law. However, I don't understand why these municipalities are basically making the decision on whether or not a person has a daycare in their home. The state, DPW, is who I feel should be making the decisions. If that were the case, maybe we wouldn't have as many illegal daycares as we do.
Is PA the only state that requires permission from your municipality? (A permit) Or do other states require that as well?

I'm in NY and my state has a law that says towns/villages can not impose any further restrictions - so my state says I can care for up to 8 kids (6 under school aged 2 and up and two school aged) the town can't come in and tell me I can only have 3. State overrules town, just like US law usually overrules state law (I'm sure there are exceptions but I'm too lazy to look it up)
Rather then continue to try to fight the town/municipalities, I would try to gather as many other providers as possible and move higher up the chain. LOBBY, LOBBY, LOBBY. Get your dc space and schedule in top notch order and invite your legislators in for an event. Invite the media in to showcase your business (make sure you have written permission from any dc clients in case children are filmed) Start a campaign to raise awareness about the benefits of in homes - smaller numbers, fewer illnesses, more consistency of care because of one or two primary caregivers. Highlight what you specifically offer parents - maybe you do preschool, maybe you are willing to work odd hours, etc. DON'T BE NEGATIVE!!!!! Make sure anything you send out has been spell and grammar checked. You want to present yourself as the conscientious professional you are. DO NOT OPERATE ILLEGALLY, as this will only hurt your case.

Essentially you do want your state to know that local munies are changing their laws, and imposing more restrictions - and there is nothing like and old fashioned peeing contest to get things rolling ::::
Best of luck!