Daycare and Religion

[Starburst]

But, nobody said that. Someone misread it, and then it got snarky. (I might have caused most of the snark)

The person was saying "If religion is not important to you, would you also choose a satanic provider?" It in no way meant "Any religion other than Christianity is satanic"
The point was, for SOME people, the religion taught IS important. It might not be to everyone, but for some people, it is important, and there is nothing wrong with thinking it is important. Because each parent gets to choose for their own family. Nobody has it 100% right for all people. Individuals get to choose, and their choice is OK too. Not choosing a provider based on her faith, does not mean they hate Muslims and are stupid or ignorant. (that was not you who said it) I just means a choice. To say "We have two schools, non religious and Catholic....we are catholic, but we didn't care about the religion taught".....but, you are Catholic, so obviously, the choice wasn't hard. You only had TWO to choose from!

I choose not to bring up any religion at all in my daycare. Because I have very few Christian children. So, we don't say things like "Jesus is the reason for the season" or "Play with this nativity set while I make lunch" or "Who wants to sing This little light of mine?"

1. I wasn't being snarky, I was trying to understand why she went from Muslims to Satanist? I personally find it offensive that no one was talking about that and she jumped to it like that. And I did not misinterpret it
2. There was no talk about it being religious based, just her wearing a hijab during work. If she is not teaching religion than what is the big deal?
3. I Took what she said literally not figuratively, she did not say "If religion is not important to you, would you also choose a satanic provider?" she said flat out " So you would have no problem dropping your child off with a Satanist then?" that comes off like "You might as well be leaving your child off with someone who worships the devil" to me. That "then" part comes off as snarky and changes the whole tone of things (like the thread about the word "Wow" on the forum). That second bold print part was not even my argument it was that it seems she is judging Muslims based on stereotypes.
4. I know you were joking about the turtle comment but I think that is still wrong to even joke about it and that feed into prejudice. If someone told offensive racist jokes I would expect it would be edited/deleted by the monitor (like the one about the "4 year old serial killer") or they monitor would ask them to change it because it is a xenophobic remark. You said you don't bring up any religion at all in your daycare but that doesn't mean that the parents don't have their own values and religions. I personally would not want to leave a child with someone who thinks its funny to joke
5. Honestly I expected more out of BC as a website monitor, I thought she would at least say that comment about the turtles was going too far since it singles out a group of people and spreads prejudice rumors. She closed the thread about the "Sister wives" but let that through? Isn't she supposed to make sure that everyone is not spreading rumors? But it seems like she is just egging it on.

[Willow]

And I did not misinterpret it

Uhhh, yes. You did.

I wasn't responding to the original post, I was responding to Rosiesmom which is exactly why I quoted her specifically.

The very definition of misinterpretation is MISUNDERSTANDING.

You misunderstood. You interpreted incorrectly.

Even after I and many others have clarified for you multiple times you still continue to be ridiculous.

I will concede that at this point I suppose it's no longer a misinterpretation, you're just kicking an insanely concocted and imaginary dead horse.....but originally anyway.........

I personally would not want to leave a child with someone who thinks its funny to joke

That's great! Someday if or when you finally have a child you sure will be able to make those sorts of decisions!!!

Just like any other parent does regarding things like the philosophies, beliefs and core values of the people they choose to leave their children in the care of!!!!!

Isn't she supposed to make sure that everyone is not spreading rumors?

Sort of like when you call someone a bigot and they're really not one and then won't let it the hell go??

[Lyss]

Not liking someone because they are Muslim is both stupid and ignorant. I'm not addressing valid reasons to not want to enroll a child with a Muslim daycare provider -- not liking someone solely because of their religion isn't a valid reason.

So you would have no problem dropping your child off with a Satanist then?

Using your reasoning as long as they treated your child kindly there would be no reason to judge them as anything but human, right?

Response to ROSIE's post, and the following sentence keeps getting ignored. Without quoting it or paying attention to it you are taking what she said out of context. Comparing situations is not a racist comment, its applying the same logic to different things. Rosie said you can't judge someone on their religion alone, so Willow was responding to her asking if she still felt the same if it was a different religion (one with a more negative context in our society).

1. I wasn't being snarky, I was trying to understand why she went from Muslims to Satanist? I personally find it offensive that no one was talking about that and she jumped to it like that. And I did not misinterpret it
2. There was no talk about it being religious based, just her wearing a hijab during work. If she is not teaching religion than what is the big deal?
3. I Took what she said literally not figuratively, she did not say "If religion is not important to you, would you also choose a satanic provider?" she said flat out " So you would have no problem dropping your child off with a Satanist then?" that comes off like "You might as well be leaving your child off with someone who worships the devil" to me. That "then" part comes off as snarky and changes the whole tone of things (like the thread about the word "Wow" on the forum). That second bold print part was not even my argument it was that it seems she is judging Muslims based on stereotypes.
4. I know you were joking about the turtle comment but I think that is still wrong to even joke about it and that feed into prejudice. If someone told offensive racist jokes I would expect it would be edited/deleted by the monitor (like the one about the "4 year old serial killer") or they monitor would ask them to change it because it is a xenophobic remark. You said you don't bring up any religion at all in your daycare but that doesn't mean that the parents don't have their own values and religions. I personally would not want to leave a child with someone who thinks its funny to joke
5. Honestly I expected more out of BC as a website monitor, I thought she would at least say that comment about the turtles was going too far since it singles out a group of people and spreads prejudice rumors. She closed the thread about the "Sister wives" but let that through? Isn't she supposed to make sure that everyone is not spreading rumors? But it seems like she is just egging it on.

We adults, not children. BC is not here to clean up what we are exposed to or delete something every time someone cries foul, we'd have barely any threads then. I can see if it was an actual racist comment aim specifically at one person or group but that is not what the comments you are talking about was. The sister wives thread was started specifically for drama, BC knew it was a registered member who wasn't a polygamist (and she as since has admitted to doing it for drama), I'm tired of hearing about this thread.

[jokalima]

Well that is great that you let the parents know. The form is wonderful. I would not choose that for my child but at least I'd know. Good for you!

I'm curious though. How is the above NOT a Christian based program? Bible stories, praying and some monthly Christian themes seems like a Christian based program to me. I'm not sure I understand what would constitute a Christian based program if the above doesn't.

Thanks, Laurel

Well the reason I don't see it as a Christian Based program is because it does not happen all the time. Not every week we do Christian themes and we often forget to pray ( busy days ) this year we got better with the praying and the kids like it a lot. Is something I like to do with them, not something I have to do because is in the curriculum for a week. And also if a Christian family comes and I tell them that is a Christian Program they might expect much more , and I am not prepared for that yet, that is why i dont consider my program a Christian one.

[jokalima]

Well that is great that you let the parents know. The form is wonderful. I would not choose that for my child but at least I'd know. Good for you!

I'm curious though. How is the above NOT a Christian based program? Bible stories, praying and some monthly Christian themes seems like a Christian based program to me. I'm not sure I understand what would constitute a Christian based program if the above doesn't.

Thanks, Laurel

Well the reason I don't see it as a Christian Based program is because it does not happen all the time. Not every week we do Christian themes and we often forget to pray ( busy days ) this year we got better with the praying and the kids like it a lot. Is something I like to do with them, not something I have to do because is in the curriculum for a week. And also if a Christian family comes and I tell them that is a Christian Program they might expect much more , and I am not prepared for that yet, that is why I
dont consider my program a Christian one.

[Willow]

response to rosie's post, and the following sentence keeps getting ignored. Without quoting it or paying attention to it you are taking what she said out of context. Comparing situations is not a racist comment, its applying the same logic to different things.

thank you!!!!

[Blackcat31]

5. Honestly I expected more out of BC as a website monitor, I thought she would at least say that comment about the turtles was going too far since it singles out a group of people and spreads prejudice rumors. She closed the thread about the "Sister wives" but let that through? Isn't she supposed to make sure that everyone is not spreading rumors? But it seems like she is just egging it on.

Why would you expect more out of me?

I am not the playroom monitor.

I am a moderator, not the opinion police.

I often ignore many ignorant or uneducated posts simply to NOT add fuel to the fire.

The sister wives thread was closed due to the fact that it was started by a member of this forum with the SOLE intention of stirring the pot and creating unnecessary drama.

Also WHY a thread is closed, really isn't discussed openly among all the forum members as sometimes it really isn't any of anyone's business other than the moderators and Michael.

What gives you the impression that it is my job to make sure rumors aren't being spread? That is an odd comment.

The members of this forum are grown women who ALL have opinions. Where the word rumor came from, or the fact that I am suppose to do something about them is confusing.

If someone makes a comment that offends you, either report the post to any of the moderators Michael or use the red/yellow flags on the top right of the posting box.

This lets mods and admin know you are offended by something.

Other than that, you are on your own as far as whether you are insulted or offended by something someone posts. Either ignore, their comment, report it or say something to them.

I don't read every single post that is posted on the forum. I also know for a fact that the member who made the turtle comment was being sarcastic and wasn't being serious at all. I take that into consideration too.

[youretooloud]

4. I know you were joking about the turtle comment but I think that is still wrong to even joke about it and that feed into prejudice. If someone told offensive racist jokes I would expect it would be edited/deleted by the monitor (like the one about the "4 year old serial killer") or they monitor would ask them to change it because it is a xenophobic remark. You said you don't bring up any religion at all in your daycare but that doesn't mean that the parents don't have their own values and religions. I personally would not want to leave a child with someone who thinks its funny to joke

That doesn't even make sense. Why would you not choose a provider who thinks jokes are funny?

I'm not sure what year you were born, but the turtle incident was something from the 80s. There was a mass hysteria, where parents were accusing providers of being satan worshipers and child molesters. There was a giant witch hunt, a lot of lives were destroyed. The parents and psychologists claimed that the kids were forced to sit in a circle and chant while the director cut the head off a pet turtle in a ritual.

Only, it turns out, the psychologists were lying, and putting the stories into the kid's heads. But, it was too late, because those lives were all ruined anyway.

I think there were close to 20 daycare centers taken down by this hysteria of lies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-care_sex-abuse_hysteria

So, calling me a Xenophobe is not only very wrong, because I am one of the most open minded people I know. I have no fear of the unknown, but I have a darn fine sense of humor. And, I wouldn't want a family in my care that had no use for jokes or fun. I understand that some people prefer a more serious attitude, and that's great. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not for my group. We joke all the time.

[Michelle]

Uhhh, yes. You did.

I wasn't responding to the original post, I was responding to Rosiesmom which is exactly why I quoted her specifically.

The very definition of misinterpretation is MISUNDERSTANDING.

You misunderstood. You interpreted incorrectly.

Even after I and many others have clarified for you multiple times you still continue to be ridiculous.

I will concede that at this point I suppose it's no longer a misinterpretation, you're just kicking an insanely concocted and imaginary dead horse.....but originally anyway.........




That's great! Someday if or when you finally have a child you sure will be able to make those sorts of decisions!!!

Just like any other parent does regarding things like the philosophies, beliefs and core values of the people they choose to leave their children in the care of!!!!!




Sort of like when you call someone a bigot and they're really not one and then won't let it the hell go??

That's great! Someday if or when you finally have a child you sure will be able to make those sorts of decisions!!!


seriously????
how could you say something like this to someone?
do you even know why she doesn't have kids yet?
this is just cold blooded mean!

[Laurel]

Well the reason I don't see it as a Christian Based program is because it does not happen all the time. Not every week we do Christian themes and we often forget to pray ( busy days ) this year we got better with the praying and the kids like it a lot. Is something I like to do with them, not something I have to do because is in the curriculum for a week. And also if a Christian family comes and I tell them that is a Christian Program they might expect much more , and I am not prepared for that yet, that is why i dont consider my program a Christian one.

Oh okay, thanks!

When I had my son in a Montessori preschool run by a nun I asked her whether the program was secular or religious. She said it was secular with no praying, no Bible stories, etc. She said about the only thing she does is at Christmas time puts out a small creche...a child type one. It is kind of like one of those Fisher Price Farms except it was a creche. She said no religious instruction goes with it. It is just there if the children want to play with it like they do the farm. So that was fine with me. Unlike when my child's third grade teacher was reading Bible stories to the children without the parents knowledge in a public elementary school. NOT okay with me but we eventually settled that amicably. I was always friendly....her, not so much although she did come around and when the principal asked me if I wanted my next child in her class (a few years later) I said fine as long as she doesn't read Bible stories to the class. I was his substitute secretary so he asked me first.

Laurel

[wdmmom]

It wouldn't bother me if I liked a provider but I wrestled with the same thing being an atheist myself. It is nothing you can see like the way I dress but I would never share it with a client unless asked outright. Even then I would say "I'm not religious" and leave it at that. I have always said that telling people 'might' be 'bad for business.' Not that I'm ashamed of it in any way but some people have weird misconceptions about it. One time someone said to me "Well do you salute the flag?" Huh? :: So yes, I do think it is a valid concern but I'd go for it anyway if I were her.

That said, I wouldn't send my child to a daycare that openly taught any religion or prayed with the children, etc. As long as she is running a secular program I wouldn't have a problem with it. I sent my son to a preschool that was run by a nun. I just checked to make sure it was a secular program and it was.

It is up to her whether to wear the scarf or not. Honestly, she may not get some people with it but may get more people of her own faith with it. So it can be a gamble. Scarf or not, it would not keep me from trying to open a child care if I were her. Of course, I am in a melting pot kind of area. She may not be. My own street is a melting pot of races and religions including Muslim. It wouldn't be a concern here. However, if she is in the Bible belt it might be a different situation.

She'll probably do just fine.

Laurel

Athiest here too. I often wondered whether people would notice that I didn't have much hanging on my walls. No JC, no crosses, etc.

I have had families ask if we prayed as a group before breakfast or lunch. I openly said, "The children that can talk are welcome to do whatever they are comfortable with but I do not initiate or invite children to repeat after me nor will I start a prayer."

They chose another provider and that is perfectly fine with me. Some of the families I work for now have invited me to many church functions. I graciously accept any invitation but I have never attended anything outside of work for any reason.

[Laurel]

Athiest here too. I often wondered whether people would notice that I didn't have much hanging on my walls. No JC, no crosses, etc.

I have had families ask if we prayed as a group before breakfast or lunch. I openly said, "The children that can talk are welcome to do whatever they are comfortable with but I do not initiate or invite children to repeat after me nor will I start a prayer."

They chose another provider and that is perfectly fine with me. Some of the families I work for now have invited me to many church functions. I graciously accept any invitation but I have never attended anything outside of work for any reason.

I've never had a prospective client ask me about religion or prayer at all. I did have some parents who were obviously very religious. I got one invitation to attend a church event. It had some kind of ticket to get in. I just said "thanks" and, of course, didn't go and it was never brought up again.

I had one little girl that was Christian but they didn't celebrate Halloween. I know I didn't have to but we just made harvest type crafts that weren't specifically for Halloween. No one knew the difference. No one objected to pumpkins and spiders.

Once I did let it slip that I was an atheist but the mom didn't care at all but you never know....

Laurel

[Willow]

Nevermind

[Michelle]

Yes I do know.

And that's why I don't expect her to fully understand everything that goes into guiding a child into adulthood.


Thanks for your judgement about being cold blooded and mean though. I'm sure no one here would ever say the same about you so that's awesome!!!

what if someone was struggling with infertility?
or just recently lost a child or pregnancy?
I was not going to get involved in this thread until I read this.
I know you were mad but jeeez! :confused:

[Willow]

what if someone was struggling with infertility?
or just recently lost a child or pregnancy?
I was not going to get involved in this thread until I read this.
I know you were mad but jeeez! :confused:

Yeah, I don't get mad about silly stuff written on internet forums....

But she's said multiple times that she's young and unmarried. Not that that comment had anything to do with anything you or I wrote.

But way for pulling out more imaginary drama! You're so good at that!!!