Gay Marriage

[sammie]

So you're point is that you support gay marriage?
People can tell me how much they love a certain group of people all they want. I've been told that all my life. I will not go into detail because this is about gay rights. Actions speak volumes. I am not even sure what your stance is. I am responding to the way religion is used to hurt. I guess I will have to go through your posts and see why you in particular feel attacked.

:confused: I never said I felt attacked......

[jokalima]

Academy of Pediatrics supports gay marriage.
Exerpt below:

The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) supports civil marriage for same-gender couples – as well as full adoption and foster care rights for all parents, regardless of sexual orientation – as the best way to guarantee benefits and security for their children.



The AAP policy statement, “Promoting the Well-Being of Children Whose Parents Are Gay or Lesbian,” and an accompanying technical report will be published in the April 2013 Pediatrics (published online March 21).



“Children thrive in families that are stable and that provide permanent security, and the way we do that is through marriage,” said Benjamin Siegel, MD, FAAP, chair of the AAP Committee on Psychosocial Aspects of Child and Family Health, and a co-author of the policy statement. “The AAP believes there should be equal opportunity for every couple to access the economic stability and federal supports provided to married couples to raise children.”



In a previous policy statement published in 2002 and reaffirmed in 2010, the AAP supported second-parent adoption by partners of the same sex as a way to protect children’s right to maintain relationships with both parents, eligibility for health benefits and financial security. The 2013 policy statement and accompanying technical report adds recommendations in support of civil marriage for same-gender couples; adoption by single parents, co-parents or second parents regardless of sexual orientation; and foster care placement regardless of sexual orientation.



“The AAP has long been an advocate for all children, and this updated policy reflects a natural progression in the Academy’s support for families,” said Ellen Perrin, MD, FAAP, co-author of the policy statement. “If a child has two loving and capable parents who choose to create a permanent bond, it’s in the best interest of their children that legal institutions allow them to do so.”



A great deal of scientific research documents there is no cause-and-effect relationship between parents’ sexual orientation and children’s well-being, according to the AAP policy. In fact, many studies attest to the normal development of children of same-gender couples when the child is wanted, the parents have a commitment to shared parenting, and the parents have strong social and economic support. Critical factors that affect the normal development and mental health of children are parental stress, economic and social stability, community resources, discrimination, and children’s exposure to toxic stressors at home or in their communities -- not the sexual orientation of their parents.



According to the policy statement, the AAP “supports pediatricians advocating for public policies that help all children and their parents, regardless of sexual orientation, build and maintain strong, stable, and healthy families that are able to meet the needs of their children.”




What is unfair about any of that?
Another quote I saw earlier states that Marriage predates Christianity, so Christianity should not be able to define it.
Looking past your religion, what are your personal issues with homosexuality? The excuse that the children will be ridiculed is not valid. I was told the same thing when I married outside of my race. I was asked how it would make the church family feel? What would my children go through? I have been happily married for 9 years. My children are happiy alive. It's my life, and my happiness.

I don't , I can't expect for you to understand why that is unfair for me. Looking passed my religion? Well, that one is difficult because I cannot cut a part of my self and toss it away so I can think differently on a specific issue. But I do look at the anatomy of the male and female and they compliment each other, both internally and externally we compliment each other, now we cannot say the same thing about 2 men or 2 woman. If the entire world decided to be homosexual how we could keep going? If is a normal thing and even natural, then why homosexual partners can't conceive in that natural way? And please don't bring the example of infertile couples, because infertility is a disease, if we compare the 2 of them, then homosexuality would be a disease as well. I still find it unfair and not the way it was designed to be.

Please don't read me wrong, one of my best and dearest friend is gay, I have opened the door of my house to him, he has come and stayed here with my family, we love him dearly, but we don't love his sexual preference, and if he was to ask me if he could visit again with his partner, I would say yes but in separate rooms. Same thing I did with my cousin who has a boyfriend, she visited my home and my husband said she could not share rooms with him under our roof. I can't tell them what to do outside my house, and that is me respecting them, but if they love me they have to respect my house as well, and they do.

[My3cents]

The saddest part is that I am not even a christian. I believe religion can be good. It encourages people to love, help[, and be better people. On the other hand when religion is bad it can be very evil. I have had some great christians and Muslims in my life. They were loving without judgement. One was there when I gave birth to my first child at the age of 16. I love her. I know what Sister Sally believes, but she loves me and if anyone could convert me to Christianity it would be her. I worked with 2 Muslim ladies at my first job. They would go in the closet several times a day and pray. they never judged me. They brought me food every day for lunch. If anyone good convert me to Islam it would be these 2 Muslim ladies..not the people in line at Chick-fil-a waiting for hours. Religion is about love and peace. You can't convert gay people, but love is the way to get your message across.

I think that everyone needs something to believe in, but when you go overboard coo coo with it then that is where the problems begin. I also believe religion can be good, it can be a foundation of good to start from, again it is when it goes overboard that problems arise. I always tend to go back to balance- Keeping a balance of everything is what I strive for and being a good person.

[My3cents]

Just because people don't agree with their lifestlye doesn't mean that they hate them....

true but many sure make it hard for them- We are not stupid people any of us, we know when we are genuinely liked and when we are looked down upon or made lesser-

[My3cents]

Binkybobo stated that "I hate it when people use religion to cover their own hateful feelings". She is making some pretty big assumptions and generalizations. My point is that just because I do not agree with homosexuality does not mean that I hate people who are homosexual.

Well if you didn't hate them then why would you deny them the same rights that you have? Maybe it is not hate but it seems like it a very big dislike.

[jokalima]

I completely understand what you are saying but it is a two way street isn't it?

It is, and I have to admit that many Christians, yes Christians more than other religions do a bad job at this. And then the ones that do believe in disagreeing with respect don't want to speak because the intolerance.


[COLOR="rgb(139, 0, 0)"]I'm guessing that "some of the people who who fight so hard for tolerance" (as you say) may have been told that they will go to hell, or that their marriage doesn't count as legitimate because they weren't married in a certain type of building, or feel judged by many Christians because they are single and chose to have a child, or because they married outside of their ethnicity, or had their child's funeral picketted, or because they are gay or lesbian. [/COLOR]

I agree, probable many, but if you fight for a cause where you want for all to be equal, that is all it is hypocritical to fight for rights and want to criticize others for expressing themselves.

[COLOR="rgb(139, 0, 0)"]I live my life in a way that conforms to most Christian standards but there is absolutely no way I would ever affiliate myself with the Christians. For me it is the judgmental hypocrisy that sends me screaming in the opposite direction.

I say let any two adults who love each other marry if they want to. It doesn't take anything away from my marriage at all. lovethisShare the love.lovethis

[/COLOR]

And if that is OK and works for you that is fine. I think the problem with many Christians is not knowing how to do things. Maybe here I don't sound like the most loving person but I not a hater. I am passionate about conserving our rights and to be allowed to do what God asks for us to do and that is preach the Gospel. I do not peeket, I do not harass gay couples, I do not go to a single mom and stop her at the grocery store and tell her how bad a person she is, because she probably is not. But I do believe that shutting our mouths is not what we were called to do, and more and more are doing that. I've heard Christians say that they would encourage someone to choose to end their life, why? Because is their life and for them to choose what to do with it. Well for me life is a precious thing granted to us by God and I would do my best to let that person know that, instead of encouraging euthanasia.

[jokalima]

"Looking past your religion, what are your personal issues with homosexuality? The excuse that the children will be ridiculed is not valid. I was told the same thing when I married outside of my race."

I will say "A natual thing" alot in this post. What I mean by that is if it was suppose to be a way of life, it would have already been placed into nature and be a natural way of living.

If it is a natural thing, why then hasn't it been recognized and accepted since time began? Why over time has people not been more outspoken about it and lived open lives? Why be so secretive about it if thats the way God created them? It shouldn't have shocked anyone over the thousands of years if it were a natural thing.

I was a teenager/young adult in the 80's. It seemed there were so many gay people then that you couldn't keep up with it. Everyone seemed to come out of the closet. Remember when Rock Hudson came out! I remember "pretty boys" and walking into department stores to see men at the makeup counter. Why not push for it then? Why 30 years later? If we are to be accepting of it now, why wouldn't we have been accepting of it then.

A few years ago there was a "Man" in our state having children.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/man-woman-claims-months-pregnant-article-1.291001

Thats something that you really don't want to even try to explain to your children and you shouldn't have to. A homosexual couple know from the get go that they can't have a child natually and will have to have help. If it was suppose to be natural, then they would be able to try for their own children first. A straight couple won't know that till they have tried for awhile and alot of times there is an answer and they can actually have their own child from both parents.

If it is a natural thing, how about the intimate part of life? Two men are using openings that weren't made for sexual intimacy. Rectal cancer is a scare among gay men and its because of the the misuse of it. Lesbians have to use other attachments to be able to satisfy the partner as they weren't born with the part that is meant for that. If its natural they would have what was needed for the act.

Someone has to decide who is the husband and who is the wife. In a straight couple it is pretty evident. Also, if they do have a child, they have to decide who carries the baby (its not always the wife). In a straight couple, once again its prettys straight forward.

If its something that was meant to be, there would have been no laws set against it in the first place. It would have been an automatic that marriage was for anyone that loved each other, no matter their sexual orientation.

Now on the children part. I have taken care of two little girls in the past (within the last 5 years/different families). The first one called anyone daddy because she honestly wanted a daddy extremely bad. She had a dad but he really wasn't in the picture and she wanted one of her own forever. Mom was pretty happy single so not sure if one will be in the works.

The other little girl-dad was not in the picture at at. Mom met a wonderful man and they were married. I will never forget the day that the little girl looked at me and said "Mommy and ******* are getting married and we are changing his name to daddy!" She was soooooo excited for this.

For some reason (to me) I don't see a little one being excited for another mommy or daddy. They already have that role filled by someone and need the opposite sex of the parent to fill in the role that isn't there. Two men aren't going to know how it feels for that little girl (if they had one) to get her first period. They won't be able to say "oh, I know it can be a painful time of the month" as they have never experienced a period in their live, the pain of childbirth, developing breasts, maybe taking birth control and what can come from that. Same with two lesbians that may have a son. Boys go through many changes that women can't relate to.

I know there are many single parents out there but to find a truly single one is rare. Usually there is a girl/boy friend in the picture that they child may talk to or they do have their biliogical parent of the same sex if the parents are divorced.

These are just my thoughts on the subject as they were asked. I have had gay people in my life in the past but they knew I didn't condone their lifestyle. I didn't condone other people (relatives/friends) lifestyles for things they did with their lives-drinking, drugs, other issues in their lives. I can love these people as Jesus did but he wouldn't have condoned the livestyles they lived. I'm sure there are many more things I could think of but these are just right off the top of my head.

My limited English don't let me express my thought this well , love it happyfacehappyface

[sammie]

Well if you didn't hate them then why would you deny them the same rights that you have? Maybe it is not hate but it seems like it a very big dislike.

With all due respect....where did I ever say that I would deny them the same rights that I have? :confused: I believe what I said was that just because I do not agree with their lifestyle doesn't mean I hate them....nor do I dislike them. Here we go again with assumptions and generalizations....

[jokalima]

Is it implemented in your home? Why are you here preaching the gospel then? It is clearly written in the scripture that you have no place.

But I think we do, God tells men to love and protect their wife's like Jesus loves the Church. We have to respect our husbands and be submissive yes, but just by reading Ephesians 5:25 we know that we are free to express ourselves with respect, because Jesus loved the Church such a way, Jesus for us is God, and he wants us to come to God and be able to feel free to talk to Him about everything and be ourselves. That is what I believe in and that the Bible says about how my Husband has to treat me. So if we can express ourselves with God and talk to him freely and openly about everything, we should be able to have the same thing with our husbands. When you quote the Bible you have to know the context of it, is it something based on the historical time it was written for example?

[jokalima]

I don't think it will turn sour. I am not here to attack anyone's religion. It just hurts me to see some of the terrible things that were written and all written in the name of Jesus. I hate it when people use religion to cover their own hateful feelings. I'd much rather have someone say that they are disgusted. I have had the scripture used against me for many reasons in my life. I've had ugly things said to me in the name of Jesus, but I knew that they were just using the bible as an excuse. Would Jesus wait in line at Chick-fil-a for 2 hours to get a sandwich just to rub it in the face of a gay person or would he be mentoring and loving that person during those 2 hours?

I think you misunderstood her... I've never read here that Jesus hates gay people, we all know he does not, he loves them as much as he loves me or any other Christian.

[Binkybobo]

But I think we do, God tells men to love and protect their wife's like Jesus loves the Church. We have to respect our husbands and be submissive yes, but just by reading Ephesians 5:25 we know that we are free to express ourselves with respect, because Jesus loved the Church such a way, Jesus for us is God, and he wants us to come to God and be able to feel free to talk to Him about everything and be ourselves. That is what I believe in and that the Bible says about how my Husband has to treat me. So if we can express ourselves with God and talk to him freely and openly about everything, we should be able to have the same thing with our husbands. When you quote the Bible you have to know the context of it, is it something based on the historical time it was written for example?

So now it is out of context and no longer applies? Please don't bring me back to this dead horse.

[jokalima]

So now it is out of context and no longer applies? Please don't bring me back to this dead horse.

If God tells men to treat us like he love the Church, how is that for you?

[Unregistered]

Matthew 7:3-5

New International Version (NIV)


3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.


My faith is still maturing and I don't pretend to know and understand the Bible fully. I am a work in progress. When I think judgemental thoughts of others I try to keep this passage in mind. I will never be without sin, best I keep busy working on my own, rather than focus on someone else's. For some reason we do tend to rank sin, but sin is sin. One can love the sinner, without condoning the sin though.

[Michelle]

O.k. well I have been taking care of children all morning and finally got a break I just want to say that I do not hate anyone and yes I do think that homosexual acts are disgusting.. not the person but the act.

I love everyone including sinners and yes I do sin and I know I am forgiven of my sins through my savior Jesus Christ.

My best friend had an uncle that died of AIDS and he was gay but he became a christian before he died.. He said he still had gay feelings but did not act on them because he was a Christian.

We are all on here to talk about how we feel and what we believe.
So, lets just be respectful and stop insulting others. I have always stated how I feel and what I have experienced regarding gay people.

[Heidi]

O.k. well I have been taking care of children all morning and finally got a break I just want to say that I do not hate anyone and yes I do think that homosexual acts are disgusting.. not the person but the act.

I love everyone including sinners and yes I do sin and I know I am forgiven of my sins through my savior Jesus Christ.

My best friend had an uncle that died of AIDS and he was gay but he became a christian before he died.. He said he still had gay feelings but did not act on them because he was a Christian.

We are all on here to talk about how we feel and what we believe.
So, lets just be respectful and stop insulting others. I have always stated how I feel and what I have experienced regarding gay people.

Michelle-

You have every right to feel the way you feel. You have every right to believe what you believe. The issue is...not everyone feels that or believes that. So, why do your (not you personally..general "you") beliefs trump anothers?

Gay people being allowed to marry does not affect YOU. You prohibiting them from marrying DOES affect them. That's the difference, in my mind. So, you can continue to have your beliefs, and I totally respect them. It's only when other's aren't allowed the same that I take issue.

I'm not directing this at you personally, please don't think so. I'm addressing the argument in general, which is "I think it's wrong, so it shouldn't be allowed". KWIM? It's two consenting adults, why is it our business to prevent, restrict, judge, or otherwise control?



I'm not trying to convince you to think it's ok...I'm trying to say, if you find it wrong, then don't do it.