Do You Ever Have To Hold Kids Down?

[heather]

IF the OP was intentionally being vague to simply stir the pot and cause drama, that was not cool.

But if she wanted to start a discussion on the various methods, tips and tricks that providers use to get kids to nap, she definitely could have done it in a more proactive and postive manner.

I'm really sorry but I dont see what was sooooo controversial about my post. I chose a title which I thought would be clear and to the point. Many of you understood my use of the words"hold down" in an abusive way, which I didn't mean at all so I apologize if this was misunderstood. In my original post I don't think I wrote anything to make people think I had abused a child? I merely was asking where the limits are.

[Crystal]

Heather,

Thank you so much for the clarification and for not taking my "words" as a personal attack on you. I just get really upset when I hear what may be considered "abusive practices" when working with children and I apologize for jumping to that conclusion with you.

I do not think what you have described is wrong in any way. Holding a child (in your arms) or rubbing his back is a perfectly acceptable practice in helping a young child calm down enough to rest.

With the going inside/outside situation, as well as any other situation like that, I use "Limited Choice" .....I would say " Johnny, you have a choice, you can go inside with the rest of your friends on your own, or I can help you by (insert action here...pick up and carry, hold hand and walk in together, etc)" Pause briefly giving him time to respond and then, if he doesn't comply, follow through with the action. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. This way, he will quickly learn, I can happily go along with my friends, or I can be made to do what I have been asked to do......he will soon decide that he wants to do things the way his friends do. Just make sure you state the "choice" every time, so he knows when he hears those words, what to expect.

Best wishes to you!

[heather]

is there a moderator still reading this? I would appreciate it if the many inappropriate comments could be removed, or better yet if the whole thread could be deleted.
I posted a question asking childcare workers to share their experiences as to whether they sometimes need to physically restrain/ pick up/ hold down children. I assumed that it was evident that this is sometimes necessary for the child's safety and well being when the child refuses to cooperate and that any childcare worker would do this in an appropriate and caring manner after trying to reason with the child and offer him the choice to do it himself. And that childcare workers would only do this in cases where the child's safety or the wellbeing of the other children was in question.

I am grateful for those of you that assumed I was well meaning and responded helpfully to my question. Others of you apparently have a deep rooted mistrust in human nature and (mis)read way more between the lines than was written.

I did not intend to start a discussion on what consitutes child abuse nor was I looking for negative comments directed at the DCK, who is in general a pleasure to work with. (see the first posting made by daycare) I also do not want to discuss further details about DCK since I have signed a privacy agreement with the family, I only mentioned him briefly to explain why I was interested in the topic.

I would be absolutely appalled if the family of DCK would log on to here and read these comments about children being restrained in schools and dying or about lawsuits. These comments have nothing to do with me but they could be extremely damaging. Many of the comments are very graphic and could be upsetting to a parent to read. What if other parents decided to browse on this forum and read these comments, how does that build trust in our profession? This is supposed to be a forum for support and in the future the moderators should make sure that all the comments are supportive both towards the person posting and the child that is being cared for. Or if the original posting is inappropriate or too vague then it should have been removed as soon as the conversation got out of hand.
Thank you for your understanding.

[Willow]

where is it ok to physically restrain, hold down or pick up a child and at what age?

In response to your original question of holding down, where is is ok to hold down a child and at what age?

Never is the answer.

As far as I know it's at the very least against rules and regulations (at worst against the law) *unless* a licensed provider, teacher or other in charge of children are professionally trained in appropriate holds and have the ability to distinguish when it's appropriate to use them.

The uproar has to do with being educated on how a hold can go very very wrong very very fast. As in, can only take seconds to do irreparable harm.

It's interesting for me that many of you responded negatively to the words "hold down". I find it more positive to hold a child to me, than to push them away (ie in a pack and play). If you are going to take the meaning of the word in a negative or abusive way, then I suppose I would ask "What constitutes holding down?"

Holding down - any situation where you physically "hold down" the child against their will. Not hold a leg on the changing table, not hold a hand if they're inclined to go out into the street....but rather applying force downward upon the child's body to restrain and restrict them from movement.

BTW - My alternative to that isn't to "push the kids in my care away" for any reason. I encourage and TEACH them better behaviors rather than physically forcing compliance with my body. Pack and plays are used for sleep and sleep only as is required by most of the country, they are not to be used for punishment purposes or as a management tool for a child who is out of control.


Short of really rare and extreme situations "holding down a child" isn't a method that should ever have to be utilized. Certainly not a typical home daycare setting. If it came down to that for me I'd be calling the parents and letting them know their child was too out of control to be safely dealt with and needed to be picked up. I'd likely suggest some sort of upper level therapeutic care setting with more qualified caregivers for them instead.

[countrymom]

heather, I completely understand what you are saying. I have seen lots of people hold children down at centers, for saftey reasons and for comfort and for relaxation. I'm shocked that the minute someone said "hold down" you all assumed the worst.

I bet you she had to hold him on her lap to calm him down, some kids are just like this and there is nothing you can do. Gee nothing like making someone feel bad. And why do someone posters only answer when there is something negative written. I never see some posters ever post positive things, only when there is something negative or when there is drama.

[Willow]

heather, I completely understand what you are saying. I have seen lots of people hold children down at centers, for saftey reasons and for comfort and for relaxation. I'm shocked that the minute someone said "hold down" you all assumed the worst.

I bet you she had to hold him on her lap to calm him down, some kids are just like this and there is nothing you can do. Gee nothing like making someone feel bad. And why do someone posters only answer when there is something negative written. I never see some posters ever post positive things, only when there is something negative or when there is drama.

If you're referring to me you can address me directly in pm.

Your personal attack is not at all relevant to what is being discussed here and is really inappropriate and incredibly rude.

[countrymom]

If you're referring to me you can address me directly in pm.

Your personal attack is not at all relevant to what is being discussed here and is really inappropriate and incredibly rude.

funny how you think its you, I never mentioned one persons name, I never quoted anyone I never single out anyone. So if your reading this and you think its you then thats your problem not mine.

[Blackcat31]

is there a moderator still reading this? I would appreciate it if the many inappropriate comments could be removed, or better yet if the whole thread could be deleted.
I posted a question asking childcare workers to share their experiences as to whether they sometimes need to physically restrain/ pick up/ hold down children. I assumed that it was evident that this is sometimes necessary for the child's safety and well being when the child refuses to cooperate and that any childcare worker would do this in an appropriate and caring manner after trying to reason with the child and offer him the choice to do it himself. And that childcare workers would only do this in cases where the child's safety or the wellbeing of the other children was in question.

I am grateful for those of you that assumed I was well meaning and responded helpfully to my question. Others of you apparently have a deep rooted mistrust in human nature and (mis)read way more between the lines than was written.

I did not intend to start a discussion on what consitutes child abuse nor was I looking for negative comments directed at the DCK, who is in general a pleasure to work with. (see the first posting made by daycare) I also do not want to discuss further details about DCK since I have signed a privacy agreement with the family, I only mentioned him briefly to explain why I was interested in the topic.

I would be absolutely appalled if the family of DCK would log on to here and read these comments about children being restrained in schools and dying or about lawsuits. These comments have nothing to do with me but they could be extremely damaging. Many of the comments are very graphic and could be upsetting to a parent to read. What if other parents decided to browse on this forum and read these comments, how does that build trust in our profession? This is supposed to be a forum for support and in the future the moderators should make sure that all the comments are supportive both towards the person posting and the child that is being cared for. Or if the original posting is inappropriate or too vague then it should have been removed as soon as the conversation got out of hand.
Thank you for your understanding.

Heather, while I completely understand why you might want the thread removed/deleted, it is against forum rules to remove or delete any posts or threads.

Admin likes to leave ALL threads/posts so that users (both current and future) can search for and find relevant information that may pertain to an issue or situation they may be experiencing.

I also understand your concern about a DCF possibly finding the thread and reading. This is a common concern. Because this is an open forum, the only advice I can offer in this regard is to maybe PM Michael and request that the entire thread be moved to the Off-Topic section where only registered members can view it. I know that doesn't solve the issue entirely, but it is the only solution I think is available.

In the future, a couple of things you can do to protect your identity as well as those of your DCF's is to post solely in the off-topic section or change any identifying but non-necessary details about the family and/or situation. Other than that, I don't think there is anything else you can do.

fwiw~ I don't think that any family reading what you wrote would be upset at how you handled the situation and I don't think you did anything wrong.

As for those posts/replies you think were unsupportive, taken out of context or blown out of proportion, you need to remember that the posts on this forum are interpreted in hundreds of different ways and from hundreds of different perspectives so there is always going to be a word, a phrase or a situation that is misconstrued or misunderstood or taken in and out of context by it's members.

It doesn't mean you or they did anything wrong or are mistaken in the way they perceive things. It only means that they are applying what you wrote, said and posted from their viewpoints. Thus making "conversation" and multiple posts to further explain necessary and relevant to the discussion.

I am sorry that you feel as though some members took things differently than what you meant, but without being in your shoes or understanding 100% EXACTLY what you meant, it is difficult not to let how one personally feels not impact their thoughts, suggesstions, reactions and words within their posts.

Rarely are situations or issues posted solved or "fixed" with only a couple responses. Several replies, as well as hundreds of different perspectives are often necessary before an OP feels as though he/she has ALL the information they need to make a clear, well thought out decision or has all the tools to implement a plan if action for the issue/problem.

Again, I am sorry if the thread did not go in the direction you had intended and that it did not include your ideal responses or suggestions but when sharing with people from all over the world, that is common and should be expected.

I am glad you reached out for solutions and I am glad that you were able to find one that worked for you.

[Willow]

Edited....nevermind

[Sugar Magnolia]

None of this is funny, not even remotely. As usual, there is much drama centered around semantics. Yes, the OP used language that led many of us, myself included, to believe she was "holding DOWN", not simply "holding" this child. I think we can all agree that holding down is not ok. Holding and comforting is fine. Nuff said, I think.

[daycaremum]

Well, she said she had to hold him down against his will and that she felt bad about it......SO, I would take that to mean that she physically held him down to get her point across that he had to lay down.....as she said "he got the point"

I think she gave plenty of information to for me to draw that conclusion, hence my response.

My advice was, as previously stated, "If you cannot deal with a toddler or preschooler getting up and having to put them back down (even if it is over and over and over) without getting "physical" about it, then you should not be caring for children. " and I stand by that.

Just like you stated Crystal, "SO, I would take that to mean...." It is your interpretation of what she has said. When I read it the first time what jumped out at me was she said she held him down for "like 5 seconds". I would tell her she did nothing wrong. I have worked in centres and it is common practice to "hold" children down. If one child keeps getting out of bed in a room of 16 sleepers, it is mighty disruptive. It is done gently, usually a hand on the back. The OP likely isn't coming back because of the negative response she has gotten. I too would like more information, before jumping all over her. Like I said, I don't think she did anything wrong. You on the other hand are judging her based on a very short description of what she did.

[daycaremum]

Heather, can you tell me, if the way you describe holding him down is accurate, why did you feel bad about it? Originally you describe it as holding him down, now you describe it as lovingly holding him. Which is it? Honestly....if it is the way you most recently described it, then there would be no reason to feel badly, which causes me to question if you are being honest about it or just wanted to ensure other providers aren't questioning your ethics. I could be completely wrong, and if I am I apologize, but it just seems odd to me.

And, as you said you did....why would you intentionally make your post controversial? As you can see, all that did was create 1. anger from some of us who vehemently disagree with restraining a child in the way you originally described and 2. those of us who expressed our anger being berated by a couple of mods.

For future reference, it would be greatly appreciated (by me at least) if you were more clear and not intentionally stirring controversy. If not, then I suppose there will be more of the drama that occurred here today

After I posted my last entry I continued to read and saw that the OP came back to explain herself and this is the response you gave her. I don't think she was trying to "intentionally" stir up controversy. She likely quickly posted, and didn't come back for a while to read all the controversy that occurred at the hands of all of us! Crystal, do you own this site? It sounds like you do, or you think you do, you have no right to demand that the OP be more clear with future posts. This is your opinion. I thought she was clear enough for me, I didn't think she did anything wrong from the get-go. I'm genuinely shocked at how you are treating the OP. Just my 2 cents.

[Crystal]

Hahahaha! This is laughable.

Really? you are going to come back to something that has already been resolved, with the OP NEVER having an issue with my posts.....she was actually quite nice to "talk" to.....and berate me? Whatever

[daycare]

[mom2many]