Do You Ever Have To Hold Kids Down?

[Solandia]

Yuuuuup!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Naptime stuff with (some) providers really *^$$&$ me off. If you cannot deal with a toddler or preschooler getting up and having to put them back down (even if it is over and over and over) without getting "physical" about it, then you should not be caring for children.

And, yes, indeed, if ever I found that a provider held my child down on a napmat, in any way, shape or form, for one second or one minute....well, lets just say the provider would likely be finding herself held down as well.

But! what if the child needs physical (hard touches) to calm down? I had a dcb who absolutely needs something heavy on him to relax. Like 2-3 heavy quilts would do it. Think almost swaddling a toddler. That was my alternative to..... His easiest way to fall asleep was to have mom lay partially on top of him/hold him down and/or restrain him. He would "protest" for about 30 sec and then fall into a deep sleep for 2.5 hrs. Obviously, I didn't do that, but it would have made naptime so much easier for everyone involved. Sometimes a hard backrub/massage would work as well.

At first glance it was restraining, but the alternative was this child never getting relaxed enough to the sleep that he had to have to function.

99% of my kids I would use backrub/arm rub and shushing to get to sleep. And in a way, even a light backrub is a form of "getting physical"/holding them down to indicate to the child they must lay down to sleep.

[SilverSabre25]

But! what if the child needs physical (hard touches) to calm down? I had a dcb who absolutely needs something heavy on him to relax. Like 2-3 heavy quilts would do it. Think almost swaddling a toddler. That was my alternative to..... His easiest way to fall asleep was to have mom lay partially on top of him/hold him down and/or restrain him. He would "protest" for about 30 sec and then fall into a deep sleep for 2.5 hrs. Obviously, I didn't do that, but it would have made naptime so much easier for everyone involved. Sometimes a hard backrub/massage would work as well.

At first glance it was restraining, but the alternative was this child never getting relaxed enough to the sleep that he had to have to function.

THAT is indicative of a sensory processing problem; that is not a typical need, but one that many children and even adults with sensory issues have. Not saying it was WRONG--it was good that you and mom had solutions to get him to go to sleep. I'm just saying that it's a child with some atypical sensory needs

[Crystal]

But! what if the child needs physical (hard touches) to calm down? I had a dcb who absolutely needs something heavy on him to relax. Like 2-3 heavy quilts would do it. Think almost swaddling a toddler. That was my alternative to..... His easiest way to fall asleep was to have mom lay partially on top of him/hold him down and/or restrain him. He would "protest" for about 30 sec and then fall into a deep sleep for 2.5 hrs. Obviously, I didn't do that, but it would have made naptime so much easier for everyone involved. Sometimes a hard backrub/massage would work as well.

At first glance it was restraining, but the alternative was this child never getting relaxed enough to the sleep that he had to have to function.

99% of my kids I would use backrub/arm rub and shushing to get to sleep. And in a way, even a light backrub is a form of "getting physical"/holding them down to indicate to the child they must lay down to sleep.

I would say that is completely different than what the OP is talking about, and if I were to have such a child, there would be a "medical plan" on file, from a medical professional, that indicated such measures were neccessary. A couple of quilts to calm a child with special needs is a big difference than holding a child down on a mat because they refuse to lay down.

[daycare]

what happened to the OP??

I wanted to say that I hope you get enough ideas from all the ladies here to help you through this issue.

Our job is ever changing and posses new obstacles each and every day. Honestly, if it were not for this form, I would have closed down about a year ago.

Please take the advice you want, and leave the advice you don't. I am sure that you can gain some good knowledge from the people here.

Have you talked with the parents and ask how they deal with the child??

[Heidi]

I would say that is completely different than what the OP is talking about, and if I were to have such a child, there would be a "medical plan" on file, from a medical professional, that indicated such measures were neccessary. A couple of quilts to calm a child with special needs is a big difference than holding a child down on a mat because they refuse to lay down.

Perhaps Heather might try that blanket technique. Even if there is no diagnosis, it may do the trick, and it's not in the same ballpark as the holding thing, IMO.

Heather-I am sure you are just trying to figure out what will work, but I'm guessing it feels "wrong" because you asked. I've had to put a hand on a child's back for a few moments in the past, but no longer than a few seconds. More a firm touch and and a bit of back rubbing than a "hold", and with soothing words to accompany it.


As far as picking them up to "make" them do something...I'm more likely to take their hand and guide them firmly than actually pick them up (if they can walk). Then I guide them through the task, and thank them for their cooperation (even if it was minimal). THis is called "guided compliance", and it totally ok, IMO. Usually, if you do this when they are toddlers, by the time they a little older, they get it-that you mean what you say and you expect them to listen.

[Blackcat31]

Personally, I would like to hear from the OP a little more clarification as to what she means by holding him down.

Seems some are thinking like physically restraining a flailing fighting child against his will and others are thinking something like placing a hand on his back etc so he knows not to get up....:confused:

I am confused as to the level of restraint she (OP) means when she says "hold".

I am surprised a couple members here haven't asked for more details or further explaination about the situation.

I am also surprised that they haven't offered an alternative or a supportive solution for the OP's issue or problem rather than immediate criticism

We don't know the routine, the provider, the child or any other details beside what LITTLE she has said so I am kind of suprised at the harsh reactions posted here.

[daycare]

Personally, I would like to hear from the OP a little more clarification as to what she means by holding him down.

Seems some are thinking like physically restraining a flailing fighting child against his will and others are thinking something like placing a hand on his back etc so he knows not to get up....:confused:

I am confused as to the level of restraint she (OP) means when she says "hold".

I am surprised a couple members here haven't asked for more details or further explaination about the situation.

I am also surprised that they haven't offered an alternative or a supportive solution for the OP's issue or problem rather than immediate criticism

We don't know the routine, the provider, the child or any other details beside what LITTLE she has said so I am kind of suprised at the harsh reactions posted here.

Trust me when I say I was taken back at first, but then I had to realize that we are reading between the lines here and only know a portion of this whole story.

Great post BC....

[crazydaycarelady]

I have held a child down at naptime. By holding I mean the child was laying on their tunny covered with a blanket and I put my hand on their back as a gentle reminder that they are to stay laying down and go to sleep. This seems to calm them and when they hold still for a mintue or two they relax and go to sleep. I have also used a heavy blanket to do the same thing. Not all children need this of course but every once in awhile you get one who fights laying still.

[Crystal]

Personally, I would like to hear from the OP a little more clarification as to what she means by holding him down.

Seems some are thinking like physically restraining a flailing fighting child against his will and others are thinking something like placing a hand on his back etc so he knows not to get up....:confused:

I am confused as to the level of restraint she (OP) means when she says "hold".

I am surprised a couple members here haven't asked for more details or further explaination about the situation.

I am also surprised that they haven't offered an alternative or a supportive solution for the OP's issue or problem rather than immediate criticism

We don't know the routine, the provider, the child or any other details beside what LITTLE she has said so I am kind of suprised at the harsh reactions posted here.

Well, she said she had to hold him down against his will and that she felt bad about it......SO, I would take that to mean that she physically held him down to get her point across that he had to lay down.....as she said "he got the point"

I think she gave plenty of information to for me to draw that conclusion, hence my response.

My advice was, as previously stated, "If you cannot deal with a toddler or preschooler getting up and having to put them back down (even if it is over and over and over) without getting "physical" about it, then you should not be caring for children. " and I stand by that.

[Blackcat31]

Well, she said she had to hold him down against his will and that she felt bad about it......SO, I would take that to mean that she physically held him down to get her point across that he had to lay down.....as she said "he got the point"

I think she gave plenty of information to for me to draw that conclusion, hence my response.

My advice was, as previously stated, "If you cannot deal with a toddler or preschooler getting up and having to put them back down (even if it is over and over and over) without getting "physical" about it, then you should not be caring for children. " and I stand by that.

NOT saying I don't agree with you but I do think the OP should clarify or further explain.

She did give some info but I still feel like it isn't enough and although she said hold him down, she did say only for a few seconds, so that leads me to believe that it couldn't have been an all out fight with a resisting kid....kwim?

I was also thinking that rather than come down hard on a provider for seeking help, we should have tried to offer some support or something to help her deal properly with the situation. What if she doesn't come back to the forum and continues to try to deal on her own in an improper manner or maybe what could have been a learning situation for the provider now becomes a dangerous situation for all....kwim?

I guess because some people do not express themselves clearly in text and/or use different words than maybe you or I would have chosen, I just figured that it would a much clearer scenario if OP added some more info about the situation.

[daycare]

NOT saying I don't agree with you but I do think the OP should clarify or further explain.

She did give some info but I still feel like it isn't enough and although she said hold him down, she did say only for a few seconds, so that leads me to believe that it couldn't have been an all out fight with a resisting kid....kwim?

I was also thinking that rather than come down hard on a provider for seeking help, we should have tried to offer some support or something to help her deal properly with the situation. What if she doesn't come back to the forum and continues to try to deal on her own in an improper manner or maybe what could have been a learning situation for the provider now becomes a dangerous situation for all....kwim?

I guess because some people do not express themselves clearly in text and/or use different words than maybe you or I would have chosen, I just figured that it would a much clearer scenario if OP added some more info about the situation.

Sorry, but I have to agree with BC..

I do agree with you Crystal, but I doubt that the OP will come back because people felt the need to voice their opinion on it rather than offer support and advice for her to FIX the situation.

I feel that a lot of times people tend to throw our their opinions about how Providers do it wrong, and in the end they feel horrible about it.

Why not just offer up some helpful advice to her instead..

Willow and Crystal, the two of you have some of the best advice on here, but you are both very opinionated people. WHICH is awesome, but like BC said now this OP may never come back due to getting slammed instead of getting some really useful advice.

I guess I could say that we all could be helpful instead of hurtful..... Or you can ignore me and just still post your opinions......

[Country Kids]

Please remember she is also from another country. I'm sure there laws are nothing like here. If we can't get 50 states to agree, I'm sure other countries won't be like our laws (what ever state you are from).

I'm not saying holding a child down is correct. I'm saddened though because I see posters on here asking questions and everyone assumes the worst from them. That is one thing bad about the computor-you can't tell from expressions what the person means. I really hope she comes back because I have also seen new providers ask a question, get jumped on and they never, ever come back.

She said she did it for 5 seconds! There is no way you could "hold" a child down for 5 seconds. I'm thinking she meant maybe putting her hand on his back or something.

Please think before typing back a response for someone. Just because someone does not do it like you would does not mean they are a bad provider. I'm starting to see on here from more providers that if you don't do it a certain way you aren't doing it correctly. Or they saying they have never had parents do this/that because they don't allow it. Also, if anyone tries something different with a child it is considered abuse!

We have a wonderful group here and come here for support. No one is above anyone and even when someone is typing their own opinion, it can come across wrong. Please think carefully when typing back and please, please,please read the original post carefully because sometimes we miss things and go by what we read, not what was typed.

Sorry for this being long, but I really want people to feel support here, not judgement.

[Willow]

Wbut like BC said now this OP may never come back due to getting slammed instead of getting some really useful advice.

I guess I could say that we all could be helpful instead of hurtful..... Or you can ignore me and just still post your opinions......

My dilemma is this....

If someone comes up admitting they did X and I view that response as abusive I'm going to stay something about it. In a very strong way. I cannot speak for Crystal but I can tell you on this thread I DID hold back in an attempt not to drive the OP away. There was much much more I felt and wanted to say, believe me..... A provider doing such a thing however does need to realize, and in a very real way, that what they did was not ok. That it was dangerous even. Do you know how many children in the school systems alone who have been improperly restrained and died? You don't have to go to extremes to do serious physical or mental harm to a child in that situation, even inadvertently. The thought makes me beyond angry and in most cases it's an illegal maneuver.

If someone came in and said they were whapping kids with yard sticks to get them to lay down for nap would you feel inclined to gloss over your feelings?

Would you be concerned about hurting Jessica Tata's feelings if she come here and read everything that's been said about her?

It's all on the same page of extremely inappropriate and dangerous conduct to me.


I am friends with a family right now who is suing a school district and it's bus company because a bus driver wrongfully restrained their son. Didn't hurt him (physically anyway, mentally is a whole 'nother story), just restrained him when he wasn't trained to nor had the legal right to do so and continued to even when mom was standing RIGHT THERE and recording it all on her phone. They just did an interview with Dateline and it is set to make national news. The bus driver lost his job immediately and will likely never be able to find work with kids again. That was his life and his livelihood and now it's gone in a flash because he made a poor choice.


I do not feel inclined to soften my words when it comes to the biggies regarding safety and the liabilities of the actions of a person in charge of kids.


All that said I'll agree to disagree and leave this and any of OP's related threads alone from here on out.

[Country Kids]

Daycare it looks like you and I were posting at the same time!

[daycare]

My dilemma is this....

If someone comes up admitting they did X and I view that response as abusive I'm going to stay something about it. In a very strong way. I cannot speak for Crystal but I can tell you on this thread I DID hold back in an attempt not to drive the OP away. There was much much more I felt and wanted to say, believe me..... A provider doing such a thing however does need to realize, and in a very real way, that what they did was not ok. That it was dangerous even. Do you know how many children in the school systems alone who have been improperly restrained and died? You don't have to go to extremes to do serious physical or mental harm to a child in that situation, even inadvertently. The thought makes me beyond angry and in most cases it's an illegal maneuver.

If someone came in and said they were whapping kids with yard sticks to get them to lay down for nap would you feel inclined to gloss over your feelings?

Would you be concerned about hurting Jessica Tata's feelings if she come here and read everything that's been said about her?

It's all on the same page of extremely inappropriate and dangerous conduct to me.


I am friends with a family right now who is suing a school district and it's bus company because a bus driver wrongfully restrained their son. Didn't hurt him (physically anyway, mentally is a whole 'nother story), just restrained him when he wasn't trained to nor had the legal right to do so and continued to even when mom was standing RIGHT THERE and recording it all on her phone. They just did an interview with Dateline and it is set to make national news. The bus driver lost his job immediately and will likely never be able to find work with kids again. That was his life and his livelihood and now it's gone in a flash because he made a poor choice.


I do not feel inclined to soften my words when it comes to the biggies regarding safety and the liabilities of the actions of a person in charge of kids.


All that said I'll agree to disagree and leave this and any of OP's related threads alone from here on out.

I hear what you are saying, but I think that you are comparing apples to oranges here....

What I do see is someone seeking HELP...

If a dug attic came to you and asked for help would you slam them and tell them what they are doing is illegal and immoral?? NO, you would help them..

I see this very similar, yet not the same.

This person came looking for help.....Yes, you can tell them please don't do that anymore, that it is not ok to do it and they will risk being in trouble.

I won't tell you how to use your words, all that I am saying is that sometimes words come across the wrong way (thanks computer) scaring people off instead of getting them the MUCH needed help that they are seeking...

Think about it....If you came and asked for help, would you want to be belittled for doing something wrong, or would you want the help that you were looking for.....

It's all how you say it that matters......

It's like saying please look with your eyes only instead of saying DOn't touch that!!!!!

it makes a huge difference