Do You Ever Have To Hold Kids Down?

[Willow]

I hate Dr. Phil....but a good example......

Mothers go to the show looking for help after they've used cold showers, hot sauce, humiliation, degradation and extreme physical exercise as punishments for their small children.

Does the audience give them a pat on the back in encouragement or a collective gasp in shock and a bit of horror? And does the parent's desire to seek help relieve them of any legal responsibility for their previous actions?

I think it's great if someone wants to learn better ways to cope, especially in regards to their interactions with their children, but that new intent doesn't necessarily excuse them from the knee jerk angry reaction many humans many feel towards what's been practiced in the past.


Being honest and realistic is far more helpful than giving a false impression that could lead to higher likelihood that the behavior will be repeated.


Frankly, I am beyond shocked that many here are disgusted and horrified by a parent who mentions all of the art projects her child is bringing home is a bit much.....but want to let this, something that could do real physical and mental harm to the child, slide.

[Crystal]

I hate Dr. Phil....but a good example......

Mothers go to the show looking for help after they've used cold showers, hot sauce, humiliation, degradation and extreme physical exercise as punishments for their small children.

Does the audience give them a pat on the back in encouragement or a collective gasp in shock and a bit of horror? And does the parent's desire to seek help relieve them of any legal responsibility for their previous actions?

I think it's great if someone wants to learn better ways to cope, especially in regards to their interactions with their children, but that new intent doesn't necessarily excuse them from the knee jerk angry reaction many humans many feel towards what's been practiced in the past.


Being honest and realistic is far more helpful than giving a false impression that could lead to higher likelihood that the behavior will be repeated.


Frankly, I am beyond shocked that many here are disgusted and horrified by a parent who mentions all of the art projects her child is bringing home is a bit much.....but want to let this, something that could do real physical and mental harm to the child, slide.

I totally agree. Especially with the bolded part.

[daycare]

I hate Dr. Phil....but a good example......

Mothers go to the show looking for help after they've used cold showers, hot sauce, humiliation, degradation and extreme physical exercise as punishments for their small children.

Does the audience give them a pat on the back in encouragement or a collective gasp in shock and a bit of horror? And does the parent's desire to seek help relieve them of any legal responsibility for their previous actions?

I think it's great if someone wants to learn better ways to cope, especially in regards to their interactions with their children, but that new intent doesn't necessarily excuse them from the knee jerk angry reaction many humans many feel towards what's been practiced in the past.


Being honest and realistic is far more helpful than giving a false impression that could lead to higher likelihood that the behavior will be repeated.


Frankly, I am beyond shocked that many here are disgusted and horrified by a parent who mentions all of the art projects her child is bringing home is a bit much.....but want to let this, something that could do real physical and mental harm to the child, slide.

by no means do I say to let it slide......

Willow you are VERY brilliant and have GREAT knowledge when it comes to early education with children...... Is it possible for you to look at this from a TEACHERS prospective than a judgmental one?

I am not saying that I don't agree with you, but as BC and I had stated, we need to hear the person out, ask more questions and get them the help that they need.

THis PERSON OBVIOUSLY needs help......now they may not get that much needed help due to being cyber screamed at for their actions....

[daycare]

I want to add this....

Frankly, I am disappointed to see two people that are beyond intelligent and some of the most educated on here put someone down instead of helping them.

I guess I am just upset about that and I am voicing it!!!

[Blackcat31]

I agree that the response to physically restraining and holding down a fighting, flailing child should be harsh and no words/feelings should be held back, HOWEVER that was exactly why I was asking for the OP to clarify.

Set the stage for me, tell me how EXACTLY you were "holding" him down. Was he screaming and fighting or was it something completely different?

I asked for clarification.

I asked for more details so I could give advice or share my unhappiness at any type of physical method of controlling a child but without further explaination, I didn't feel it was supportive or effective to simply bash the OP.

[Country Kids]

I agree that the response to physically restraining and holding down a fighting, flailing child should be harsh and no words/feelings should be held back, HOWEVER that was exactly why I was asking for the OP to clarify.

Set the stage for me, tell me how EXACTLY you were "holding" him down. Was he screaming and fighting or was it something completely different?

I asked for clarification.

I asked for more details so I could give advice or share my unhappiness at any type of physical method of controlling a child but without further explaination, I didn't feel it was supportive or effective to simply bash the OP.

We may never know-

[heather]

Hello everyone and thank you for all the suggestions.
What I meant by holding DCK down at nap time, I probably should have said that I replaced him to his mat, and made him lay down, while rubbing his chest and whispering to him.
Yes, i did briefly hold him so that he knew he had to stay there. Had he seemed genuinely scared or upset I would not have held him. I do not want to be big bad or scary, I just needed him to lie down so the other kids could go to sleep. I was laying next to him the whole time and he had freedom of movement on his mat ie to roll over. I think he knew that if he would try to get up I would put him back again. My DS was on the other side of me and I also had to put him back a couple of times and make him lay down.
I wanted lots of ideas so maybe I made the tone of my title a bit controversial so that lots of you would read it and pitch in with your opinions. Thank you for your input.

[Blackcat31]

Hello everyone and thank you for all the suggestions.
What I meant by holding DCK down at nap time, I probably should have said that I replaced him to his mat, and made him lay down, while rubbing his chest and whispering to him.
Yes, i did briefly hold him so that he knew he had to stay there. Had he seemed genuinely scared or upset I would not have held him. I do not want to be big bad or scary, I just needed him to lie down so the other kids could go to sleep. I was laying next to him the whole time and he had freedom of movement on his mat ie to roll over. I think he knew that if he would try to get up I would put him back again. My DS was on the other side of me and I also had to put him back a couple of times and make him lay down.
I wanted lots of ideas so maybe I made the tone of my title a bit controversial so that lots of you would read it and pitch in with your opinions. Thank you for your input.

Thank you for clarifying that! I think what you did and how you did it is not at all out of line. It doesn't sound like you were physically restraining anyone in a "bad" or negative way.

Again, thanks for clarifying and I do hope this little guy learns to nap easily for you in the from now on.

[Crystal]

Heather, can you tell me, if the way you describe holding him down is accurate, why did you feel bad about it? Originally you describe it as holding him down, now you describe it as lovingly holding him. Which is it? Honestly....if it is the way you most recently described it, then there would be no reason to feel badly, which causes me to question if you are being honest about it or just wanted to ensure other providers aren't questioning your ethics. I could be completely wrong, and if I am I apologize, but it just seems odd to me.

And, as you said you did....why would you intentionally make your post controversial? As you can see, all that did was create 1. anger from some of us who vehemently disagree with restraining a child in the way you originally described and 2. those of us who expressed our anger being berated by a couple of mods.

For future reference, it would be greatly appreciated (by me at least) if you were more clear and not intentionally stirring controversy. If not, then I suppose there will be more of the drama that occurred here today

[Willow]

Heather, can you tell me, if the way you describe holding him down is accurate, why did you feel bad about it? Originally you describe it as holding him down, now you describe it as lovingly holding him. Which is it? Honestly....if it is the way you most recently described it, then there would be no reason to feel badly, which causes me to question if you are being honest about it or just wanted to ensure other providers aren't questioning your ethics. I could be completely wrong, and if I am I apologize, but it just seems odd to me.

And, as you said you did....why would you intentionally make your post controversial? As you can see, all that did was create 1. anger from some of us who vehemently disagree with restraining a child in the way you originally described and 2. those of us who expressed our anger being berated by a couple of mods.

For future reference, it would be greatly appreciated (by me at least) if you were more clear and not intentionally stirring controversy. If not, then I suppose there will be more of the drama that occurred here today

Word........

[Blackcat31]

and 2. those of us who expressed our anger being berated by a couple of mods.

fwiw~ I was in NO way berating you or anyone. I only asked OP for more explanation or clarification. I didn't call anyone out nor did I point fingers at anyone. You know I am more diplomatic than that.

Personally, I simply felt that the OP didn't offer enough details to make a call one way or another so I asked for more.

I would and do agree 100% with you if the "holding" was a physical restraint in a mean, cruel, humiliating or overly authoritive manner which I was unsure of due to the short original post.

I also did not see what you are now picking up as far as intentional pot stirring (it's been a long day ) but you are correct about that as well, IF the OP was intentionally being vague to simply stir the pot and cause drama, that was not cool.

But if she wanted to start a discussion on the various methods, tips and tricks that providers use to get kids to nap, she definitely could have done it in a more proactive and postive manner.

Either way, I appreciate the clarification and think that she wasn't out of line if her explaination is truthful.

[Crystal]

BC....call it what you want. I felt you and Daycare were berating us......as you posted your feelings about it more than once, stated we "bashed" the OP, Daycare stated her "disappointment" in us.......whatever.

[Willow]

I actually don't mind what either said.....

It was their right to speak their mind just as I felt it was my right to speak up about something I thought was really really not ok.


I'm not offended or bothered, except at the notion that this was blown up intentionally to get people's goats....

Obviously if a provider is lovingly holding a child that's one thing and completely fine. To peg it holding a kid down however just to get people talking (ie upset) I agree with BC is uncool.

[Blackcat31]

BC....call it what you want. I felt you and Daycare were berating us......as you posted your feelings about it more than once, stated we "bashed" the OP, Daycare stated her "disappointment" in us.......whatever.

What I said was: "I asked for more details so I could give advice or share my unhappiness at any type of physical method of controlling a child but without further explaination, I didn't feel it was supportive or effective to simply bash the OP." which does not at all say anything other than how I felt and what I would do and why. I clearly used the word "I" as in me, not you or anyone else.

Apologies if you felt as though I was berating you. I was not. Either way, you are entitled to your opinion, as am I.

But I just wanted to make it clear that berating you was not my intention.

[heather]

Heather, can you tell me, if the way you describe holding him down is accurate, why did you feel bad about it? Originally you describe it as holding him down, now you describe it as lovingly holding him. Which is it? Honestly....if it is the way you most recently described it, then there would be no reason to feel badly, which causes me to question if you are being honest about it or just wanted to ensure other providers aren't questioning your ethics. I could be completely wrong, and if I am I apologize, but it just seems odd to me.

Crystal, I think the main thing for me, is not this one nap time example that you all have picked up on, but the title I wrote in general: where is it ok to physically restrain, hold down or pick up a child and at what age?

It's interesting for me that many of you responded negatively to the words "hold down". I find it more positive to hold a child to me, than to push them away (ie in a pack and play). If you are going to take the meaning of the word in a negative or abusive way, then I suppose I would ask "What constitutes holding down?"

I did and still do feel awful about having to put--and momentarily hold--the DCK onto the sleep mat. Yes I was rubbing his back and whispering to him to create a calm and safe atmosphere. One of the children was already asleep. I don't know what I would do differently next time but your comments are all helpful and give me plenty to think about. Perhaps I could move him a bit slower towards the mat leading with his hand, like one PP said, while talking to him and giving him more time to choose to cooperate. He calmed down right away and did not get up again even though I was no longer holding him. The next day he also behaved at nap time. Which tells me that maybe this child needs something like this:

As far as picking them up to "make" them do something...I'm more likely to take their hand and guide them firmly than actually pick them up (if they can walk). Then I guide them through the task, and thank them for their cooperation (even if it was minimal). THis is called "guided compliance", and it totally ok, IMO. Usually, if you do this when they are toddlers, by the time they a little older, they get it-that you mean what you say and you expect them to listen.

In fact I think this describes what I have been doing with him intuitively and what most of us do automatically with our own children. As PP says normally an older toddler does not need this any more thus could be why I don't feel comfortable with it? After a couple of days he is now listening better and I don't need to pick him up to go outside every time. He is still not sitting down with us at meal times (He doesn't eat while he is here) but I can see the living room where he is playing, from our dining room so I decided to let that be his choice. He has never had a problem with being changed thankfully but I know that many children do.