Would You Turn In?

[Crystal]

I would report it.

My reasoning goes back to the first year I was licensed and working with children. A lady down the street from me was running an unlicensed daycare, way over ratio AND had a live in boyfriend and a few shady characters who visited. I went about my business, assuming her business was none of mine.

About 6 months goes by and I see the sherriff helicopter flying over my neighborhood. There were news vans all up and down my street. The story was that a daycare on (my street) was operating illegally and none of the adults had had a background check. 3 little girls had been being molested by the DCP's boyfriend for more than a year. A couple of things came to me from that : 1. It is my duty as a Mandated Provider to report ANY situation that might put a child at risk...this was one of those times. 2. I will NEVER forgive myself for not reporting her and stopping what was happening in that house 3. It was really difficult facing parents who showed up early that day.....they saw the news....all they knew was it was a daycare on my street and I was the only one they knew of I could have lost my business.

That Man is still in prison and the DCP did time as well....she KNEW he was molesting these children, including her own daughter.

So Yes, you bet I will report it. In a hot second.

[Crystal]

I'm going out on a limb here with you all

I run an illegal daycare. I've been in business for almost 5 years and I am at full capacity with a large Waiting List.

I have over 250 hours of training courses and classes, my CDA, 45-Hour Certificate , and I have a Masters in ECE. I am confident that I am competent and knowledgable when it comes to running a daycare, running a successful business, and caring and loving all my little kids.

I strongly dislike the stereotyping that all illegal providers are, in a sense, undereducated and unfit to care for children.

I am NOT registered or licensed with my state nor will I ever be. I am completely against the state being privy to my business and everything that I do each and every day with my little friends. I will not jump through hoops, I will not have any outside input regarding MY business and I will not answer to the individuals who are not even knowledgable in ECE at all

I currently charge just as much as our local daycare centers. I have worked hard, spent hours upon weeks upon months upon years getting my daycare to be where I want it to be and I will not jeopardize my hard work for anyone.

I've never had a dcparent or potential dcparent inquire about whether or not I am registered or licensed. They could care less once they've seen my daycare.

OP, I feel it isn't anyone else's business , especially other daycare providers, on what I do in my home. This is my LIFE. This is what I was born to do. I will not have anyone mess with something this important just because they feel upset that I don't have to jump through hoop after hoop.

Just be sure you look at all sides before making the call. I can only imagine how devastating losing my business would mean to me.

Hope that gave you another perspective

So, given your reasoning, you would eat at a restaraunt that is not regulated, because the owner SAYS they do everything by the book and assures you that there are no mice or roaches in the kitchen?

I mean, really, if it is okay for daycare, then why should any other business have to follow the laws? You expect them too, right? Really, I wonder how crazy this world would be if there were not regulations to protect children and people in general.

[daycarediva]

Did your friend say why she had no intention of becoming legal? Does she know you are uncomfortable with the fact that she is breaking the law and is risking a lot?

Is the licensing process where you live difficult? Or is your friend simply concerned with just doing what she is doing and that is that?

Yes she was aware that she was illegal and has no plans to rectify that. She gets paid under the table ( she says her parents just take the standardized deduction since it is more than they pay her for FT care anyway).

She claims that one of her reasons were the cost of being licensed. Yes, the classes are $350, first aid/cpr course was $150, the fire extinguisher, the safety laws that her home is NOT even up to city code let alone daycare standards, etc. I tried to link her to the tuition reimbursement application for the classes, offered to GIVE her my spare fire extinguisher and first aid kid, along with a TON of my other supplies. Gave her inexpensive ideas about how to make her home approved (like putting fencing over her glass doors that aren't safety glass, etc) I even told her how I saved $20 from each paycheck when I was legally unlicensed (up to two FT kids, I had one PT and one per diem!) and dowloaded the manual online and started getting to code, then took my cpr/first aid THEN took my class, etc. but she wants to hear none of it. "It's a waste of money, everything the state does is just to rip you off!"

My mother thinks that I should turn her in for welfare fraud as well. My Mom works PT at a local grocery store for 'holiday' money (she's a teacher FT) and this person came through her line buying crap food with food stamps. If she isn't claiming her income to the state, then she isn't claiming it to social services either.

[Blackcat31]

Yes she was aware that she was illegal and has no plans to rectify that. She gets paid under the table ( she says her parents just take the standardized deduction since it is more than they pay her for FT care anyway).

She claims that one of her reasons were the cost of being licensed. Yes, the classes are $350, first aid/cpr course was $150, the fire extinguisher, the safety laws that her home is NOT even up to city code let alone daycare standards, etc. I tried to link her to the tuition reimbursement application for the classes, offered to GIVE her my spare fire extinguisher and first aid kid, along with a TON of my other supplies. Gave her inexpensive ideas about how to make her home approved (like putting fencing over her glass doors that aren't safety glass, etc) I even told her how I saved $20 from each paycheck when I was legally unlicensed (up to two FT kids, I had one PT and one per diem!) and dowloaded the manual online and started getting to code, then took my cpr/first aid THEN took my class, etc. but she wants to hear none of it. "It's a waste of money, everything the state does is just to rip you off!"

My mother thinks that I should turn her in for welfare fraud as well. My Mom works PT at a local grocery store for 'holiday' money (she's a teacher FT) and this person came through her line buying crap food with food stamps. If she isn't claiming her income to the state, then she isn't claiming it to social services either.

Wait, so not only is she running an illegal daycare but she is also NOT claiming her income AND collecting welfare?!?!?!

Your mom is right. Turn her in.

Those types of behaviors affect us all and I for one do not like working my butt off 50-60 hours a week to fund someone else's less than ethical behavior!!

[sharlan]

sorry didnt mean to say that eveyrone..I should of stated that I hate it when I come across the ones that do it illegally here in my state so that they don't have to pay taxes...

here in CA you can not have more than one child in your care without a license.

That should be "1 non related family".

[Sugar Magnolia]

Wait, so not only is she running an illegal daycare but she is also NOT claiming her income AND collecting welfare?!?!?!

Your mom is right. Turn her in.

Those types of behaviors affect us all and I for one do not like working my butt off 50-60 hours a week to fund someone else's less than ethical behavior!!

This!

[daycaremom76]

If I was you I would (if I knew anyone I would too) I mean seriously think of all the time and money that you have invested to have your business open legally. I currently have 3 kids that all came from unlicensed home daycares and the horror stories I have heard are crazy! I know that my licensing agent said that we are able to turn people in through her and we don't have to give our names. Someone from the state will just randomly show up at the person's house for a visit. I know it sounds greedy but I've invested a lot of time and money into my center to make sure I am legal and it would drive me crazy to have one of my gf's running one not licensed!

[brookeroo]

I operate legally between my ratios and reporting taxes but I am not licensed and I honestly have no desire to be. I started up in March and I have been having such a hard time getting spots filled because there are so many providers in my area that I'm wondering if this is really something I want to struggle with long term. I love being home. I want nothing more than to continue it but I just can't get past this struggle.

I'm stressed right now because I know I will be losing half of what I do have next fall because they are older and going in to preschool. I've already had my last full time spot open since March as it is. It's frustrating. I don't want to go through the licensing process. The calls are already not coming in.

Every state has different regulations on how many kids per adult. I don't know that I would personally classify number ratios as frustration over a "safety" concern unless the person is drastically over numbers. Someone who takes on one or two extra does not bother me.

Personally, I just feel like it's crossing a line to get all worried about someone who is just a couple over and call it a safety concern. I don't think people in California can handle different numbers than people in Minnesota verses Indiana or Maryland (random examples since I don't know the ratios for the other states). Everyone's tolerance level in what they can handle is different. I don't feel the state they live in makes a difference in the tolerance level. There are laws and we should all follow them but if they are not following them then I think (provided a child is not in true danger) that should and will come out in it's own way. Personally I don't understand people who watch crazy amounts of kids. I would not want more than the few that I have.

I've known and seen a couple of people operate illegally from a ratio aspect and they ran a pretty decent educational and safe program despite the number of kids they had. People on here state they run legally with 7+ kids and I don't think a license gives you that tolerance level. It is true they go through a lot to get that license to ensure that they do but again I don't feel that all of that determines a person's ability. Other providers just want it monitored. Provided I don't see anything that sets off true major safety red flags to me personally it's not something I get in the middle of. If something happens to them, that is on them.

On the other hand I am frustrated because I do follow the ratio laws and every person starting up a business around here makes a difference in my businesses (or lack there of). Even the stay at home moms who take a couple for supplemental extra money. I'm not about to shut someone else down but I'm conflicted in my desire to keep this going. It has changed so much over the years from when my mother did this. She put an ad up and got calls left and right and it's not like that anymore.

Half of my other reason I'm conflicted in keeping this going is because of how much you get trampled all over and disrespected by the parents. Which I knew was part of the job... but if the calls aren't coming in easily to replace people it's not very easy to be firm on your rules because you can't replace a family or families who just decide they are going to take it upon themselves to pick up a half an hour after close everyday. They will go somewhere else where the hours are different because there are clearly a lot of other options out there but at the same time, you still have to pay the bills.

[daycarediva]

I called and reported her. My registrar knew it was me (yay caller ID & calling her work cell) but she said it's anonymous. She will be stopping there TODAY since she will be in the area. She is going to call social services for possible welfare fraud herself.

The more I thought about it, the angrier I got and honestly she is intentionally breaking the law, knowingly putting kids in harms way and flaunting it. What does she expect?

[EchoMom]

Brookeroo, well said! I don't disagree with PPs though that when you have to work really hard to get licensed it's insulting when others don't follow the rules and do it illegally. But you're making a different point and I love it.

It is true. Just because Ohio says everyone can have 6 kids legally unlicensed doesn't mean that everyone in Ohio can handle that many. Some people should only have 4 max. Other people might be able to handle 8. I have 6, but I feel I could easily handle 8. When I was a classroom teacher, I had 29 kindergarteners. That's right, 29!!!

But that also goes back to Blackcat's post about speed limits. Just because everyone is allowed to drive 65 max, doesn't mean that everyone should! Some people only feel comfortable going 50! Some people might be pro racecar drivers and could handle going 80.

However, it does come down to the final say of these are the rules wherever you live and order is kept by having everyone follow them, even if they are arbitrary at times.

[EchoMom]

Good job daycarediva! Let us know what happens!

[Blackcat31]

I called and reported her. My registrar knew it was me (yay caller ID & calling her work cell) but she said it's anonymous. She will be stopping there TODAY since she will be in the area. She is going to call social services for possible welfare fraud herself.

The more I thought about it, the angrier I got and honestly she is intentionally breaking the law, knowingly putting kids in harms way and flaunting it. What does she expect?

No matter what happens YOU DID THE RIGHT THING!!!!!!!

Children in unsafe situations need a voice! Parents don't always know the rules and guidelines so they may have been unknowingly placing their child in dangerous situation.

Even if she was the absolute best, most caring, most educated provider in the world....she was still operating ILLEGALLY!

You did the right thing and and the end of the day you should feel good about your choice.

[brookeroo]

But that also goes back to Blackcat's post about speed limits. Just because everyone is allowed to drive 65 max, doesn't mean that everyone should! Some people only feel comfortable going 50! Some people might be pro racecar drivers and could handle going 80.

True but at the same time in some states (like mine) operating without a license is not illegal either but people are still scoffing at that as well. We are still within the law.

I get that it's more work. I respect what those people go through and I get how important that is to those people but I'm still within the law. It's a matter of choice. In my case for example, I don't want to be harassed by the state and have my already struggling business put in jeopardy because another provider around the corner assumed I would be over my ratio if I took on that last spot because she sees my number of kids in my care when in fact one is my daughter, my son is here part of the week when he's not in preschool and the other is my nephew and they may have no idea about that. My neighbors don't know me or my situation. You know what they say about assuming...

I've just taken on a part timer to fill the spot of the full time special needs child I lost. I wasn't planning on taking anything other than full time from now on but I have to make ends meet. I get lots of calls for part time! Can't say I haven't considered taking more part timers along with my crew right now honestly but if a full timer came along I would have to cut someone and I don't think that's good business...

With as many spots as I'm looking at having to fill later and how long it's taking to fill them I have felt like I can't take my posting down once the spot is filled. So do I take on a few part timers putting me over to get me by and keep them until I lose the others? It's hard not to consider if you should take extra on to compensate for what you will be losing in some cases. I haven't pulled that trigger but what do you do? When you only have 5 and you are looking at losing probably 3 and two of those are full time...you have to prepare for that. The ratios are hard to work with sometimes.

It's definitely not working out the way I envisioned.

[brookeroo]

I called and reported her. My registrar knew it was me (yay caller ID & calling her work cell) but she said it's anonymous. She will be stopping there TODAY since she will be in the area. She is going to call social services for possible welfare fraud herself.

The more I thought about it, the angrier I got and honestly she is intentionally breaking the law, knowingly putting kids in harms way and flaunting it. What does she expect?

This in my opinion was a good choice.

[Blackcat31]

True but at the same time in some states (like mine) operating without a license is not illegal either but people are still scoffing at that as well. We are still within the law.

I get that it's more work. I respect what those people go through and I get how important that is to those people but I'm still within the law. It's a matter of choice. In my case for example, I don't want to be harassed by the state and have my already struggling business put in jeopardy because another provider around the corner assumed I would be over my ratio if I took on that last spot because she sees my number of kids in my care when in fact one is my daughter, my son is here part of the week when he's not in preschool and the other is my nephew and they may have no idea about that. You know what they say about assuming...

I've just taken on a part timer to fill the spot of the special needs child I lost and wasn't planning on taking anything other than full time from now on but I have to make ends meet. I get lots of calls for part time but it's definitely not working out the way I envisioned.

No one is dissing anyone who is LEGALLY unlicensed.

The debate isn't whether anyone has a license or doesn't have one or if they should or shouldn't get one.

The issue is ILLEGALLY operating.

NOT ok, in any state, in any form, for any reason.

Providers who operate within the law, whether legally unlicensed or legally licensed ALL rock!!! happyface