Would You Turn In?

[littlemissmuffet]

I'm legally unlicensed. And I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to report someone I KNEW was operating over ratio or was putting kids in danger.

Remember, as a childcare provider you are a mandated reporter

[daycarediva]

I don't think you are lazy at all, i read your post about trying to get licensed for more children but not being able to because of the insane rules and i think that is unfair! Shouldn't the state law out rank your county's individual regulations? The rules your county has are very over the top and make it nearly impossible which isn't fair.

Like you said you are legally unlicensed as well, so you are in fact following the rules set forth by your county. You haven't gone over the numbers you can have and you're doing what you should to try to become licensed. I was talking about the people that don't care and just do what they want regardless of the regulations. I'm sorry if it came off incorrectly!

YES! I sent my friend a PM, inquiring if she needed any help treading the daycare waters, or if she wanted to get together to talk shop. We ended up chatting back and forth. She has ZERO intentions of getting licensed.... and she now KNOWS she is WAY out of ratio (even if she WAS licensed)

She has 6 kids + 2 under 2 + her SA son.

In my state the MAX # of kids you can be licensed for is 6+2 SA (only 2 under 2) and you have to have so much sq footage. She DOES NOT.

In my state her SA son doesn't count. Her 2 under 2 DOES. She has 1 other infant.

So, she is over by 2 for a (max) licensed provider. She is over by 4 for for a legally unlicensed provider.

[sharlan]

To further someone's traffic analogy... I have a driver's license. It surely won't protect me against being rear-ended or being hit by a drunk driver. Nor, will it protect me from me being the cause of an accident. But, it keeps track of me, keeps me in the system, and I buy insurance for any unforseen accident. I drive and have a driver's license; it is the law, so I do it. I've been driving for over 30 years, never caused an accident, never had a traffic violation and never been carded. But, I still have a driver's license.

The point is, if you are illegal it is wrong. Where are your morals and ethics? What happened to those qualities? I'm saddened by those who justify having an illegal daycare and disregard the law. It is NOT ok.

I am licensed and my morals and ethics are pretty high.

[Sugar Magnolia]

I'm going out on a limb here with you all

I run an illegal daycare. I've been in business for almost 5 years and I am at full capacity with a large Waiting List.

I have over 250 hours of training courses and classes, my CDA, 45-Hour Certificate , and I have a Masters in ECE. I am confident that I am competent and knowledgable when it comes to running a daycare, running a successful business, and caring and loving all my little kids.

I strongly dislike the stereotyping that all illegal providers are, in a sense, undereducated and unfit to care for children.

I am NOT registered or licensed with my state nor will I ever be. I am completely against the state being privy to my business and everything that I do each and every day with my little friends. I will not jump through hoops, I will not have any outside input regarding MY business and I will not answer to the individuals who are not even knowledgable in ECE at all

I currently charge just as much as our local daycare centers. I have worked hard, spent hours upon weeks upon months upon years getting my daycare to be where I want it to be and I will not jeopardize my hard work for anyone.

I've never had a dcparent or potential dcparent inquire about whether or not I am registered or licensed. They could care less once they've seen my daycare.

OP, I feel it isn't anyone else's business , especially other daycare providers, on what I do in my home. This is my LIFE. This is what I was born to do. I will not have anyone mess with something this important just because they feel upset that I don't have to jump through hoop after hoop.

Just be sure you look at all sides before making the call. I can only imagine how devastating losing my business would mean to me.

Hope that gave you another perspective

Honestly, with all your training and credentials and degrees,.I just don't get why you won't operate legally. You dont really say why, except you dont like government oversight. Kind of a head scratcher for me. As.the owner/operator/director of a fully licensed center, the state/county oversight is pretty minimal, and a lot less headache and stress than parents sometimes.

[daycare]

Other than being against the law, I don't really see where a license protects either the child or the provider. It sure doesn't protect the provider against false accusations.

I've seen some really bad licensed providers out there. One had an open trampoline in her front yard - licensing showed up when no one was there. The second one had kids jumping from an upstairs bedroom window onto the roof, then onto the grass. Again, licensing showed up after the kids had left.

I agree with this.....

I have to be honest and say that what makes me upset is that because it is illegal,that means that the person is NOT paying taxes. I pay so much in taxes each year that it is not even funny. I would love not to have to pay them, but there is a reason why they are there. I would never be able to sleep at night knowing that I was doing something aganist the law.

What would you do if a child got hurt while in your care? It gets reported? Now what. What happens to the child? Can you get insurance for an illegal business?? Pretty sure you can't. Who is going to pay for this child's injuries? I see so many things that is just so wrong and I am so tired of seeing in my area all of the illegal child cares pop up. UGH...don't get me started.

I once used to think that it was not my business, but it's ruining my business and they made it my business by doing so.

I will say this. When I do see an illegal daycare, I will email them and ask them if they would like me to help them get licensed. Guess what? Every time I am told NO, I just want to make some cash under the table.... Yeah well don't we all............

[sharlan]

I agree with this.....

I have to be honest and say that what makes me upset is that because it is illegal,that means that the person is NOT paying taxes. I pay so much in taxes each year that it is not even funny. I would love not to have to pay them, but there is a reason why they are there. I would never be able to sleep at night knowing that I was doing something aganist the law.

What would you do if a child got hurt while in your care? It gets reported? Now what. What happens to the child? Can you get insurance for an illegal business?? Pretty sure you can't. Who is going to pay for this child's injuries? I see so many things that is just so wrong and I am so tired of seeing in my area all of the illegal child cares pop up. UGH...don't get me started.

I once used to think that it was not my business, but it's ruining my business and they made it my business by doing so.

I will say this. When I do see an illegal daycare, I will email them and ask them if they would like me to help them get licensed. Guess what? Every time I am told NO, I just want to make some cash under the table.... Yeah well don't we all............

OT, I know, but that's not entirely true. I paid taxes before I was licensed. What I didn't do was take all of my deductions that I was entitled to.

[dave4him]

I probably would if I knew all the facts first

[Blackcat31]

I am licensed and my morals and ethics are pretty high.

But the difference between you and the poster Sparrow was quoting is that you were unlicensed because you said you weren't aware that you needed to have a license. I am assuming that because you now know that you are required to have one, that is why you got one.

Not being educated on the law, getting educated and then self-correcting is a great set of morals and ethics.

I think Sparrow was commenting on the morals and ethics of someone who was KNOWINGLY breaking the law and not having any intentions of correcting.

YES! I sent my friend a PM, inquiring if she needed any help treading the daycare waters, or if she wanted to get together to talk shop. We ended up chatting back and forth. She has ZERO intentions of getting licensed.... and she now KNOWS she is WAY out of ratio (even if she WAS licensed)

She has 6 kids + 2 under 2 + her SA son.

In my state the MAX # of kids you can be licensed for is 6+2 SA (only 2 under 2) and you have to have so much sq footage. She DOES NOT.

In my state her SA son doesn't count. Her 2 under 2 DOES. She has 1 other infant.

So, she is over by 2 for a (max) licensed provider. She is over by 4 for for a legally unlicensed provider.

Did your friend say why she had no intention of becoming legal? Does she know you are uncomfortable with the fact that she is breaking the law and is risking a lot?

Is the licensing process where you live difficult? Or is your friend simply concerned with just doing what she is doing and that is that?

[Alice Of Legend]

Did your friend say why she had no intention of becoming legal? Does she know you are uncomfortable with the fact that she is breaking the law and is risking a lot?

Is the licensing process where you love difficult? Or is your friend simply concerned with just doing what she is doing and that is that?

I was wondering this as well!

[thatdivalady]

Okay, I'll be honest here as well. I personally hate the state's involvement but I do understand why it is necessary. I have two locations and one is LEGALLY unlicensed, meaning that I only take up to 3 children at a time. Why? Because I'm a stickler for rules and could not deal with the state being in my primary house.

I started a second location and it is licensed/registered with the state. I personally do not have time to turn in providers but you bet your bottom dollar I would if I knew they were operating over ratio. We would all like to get paid and not pay taxes and take more children to pay more bills but we do not because it is against the law, unsafe, and just may bite you in the end!

I don't think that illegal providers are all lazy (maybe greedy?) but seriously, if you were serious about your craft, you would excel to all levels in your craft which includes licensing of some type. It also brings the market down on what parents feel they should be charged because some parents do not care about overcrowded places -- they just want to pay less. I guarantee you that if there were less of those places, parents would start to see that high quality day care as the norm and would not be as disgruntled about paying for that quality.

[momofboys]

I agree with this.....

I have to be honest and say that what makes me upset is that because it is illegal,that means that the person is NOT paying taxes. I pay so much in taxes each year that it is not even funny. I would love not to have to pay them, but there is a reason why they are there. I would never be able to sleep at night knowing that I was doing something aganist the law.

What would you do if a child got hurt while in your care? It gets reported? Now what. What happens to the child? Can you get insurance for an illegal business?? Pretty sure you can't. Who is going to pay for this child's injuries? I see so many things that is just so wrong and I am so tired of seeing in my area all of the illegal child cares pop up. UGH...don't get me started.

I once used to think that it was not my business, but it's ruining my business and they made it my business by doing so.

I will say this. When I do see an illegal daycare, I will email them and ask them if they would like me to help them get licensed. Guess what? Every time I am told NO, I just want to make some cash under the table.... Yeah well don't we all............

Beining unlicensed DOES NOT mean the person is not paying taxes so please don't lump everyone in that category! I am legally unlicensed & pay taxes on all my daycare income (what little of it is left after all the deductions!!).

[daycare]

Beining unlicensed DOES NOT mean the person is not paying taxes so please don't lump everyone in that category! I am legally unlicensed & pay taxes on all my daycare income (what little of it is left after all the deductions!!).

sorry didnt mean to say that eveyrone..I should of stated that I hate it when I come across the ones that do it illegally here in my state so that they don't have to pay taxes...

here in CA you can not have more than one child in your care without a license.

[momofsix]

I wouldn't report unless I felt there was a danger to kids.
I think the law in MI is absolutely ridiculous and it ticks me off. There is no "legally unlicensed" here. To watch even one child you need to be licensed. I think it's crazy that if I wanted my BFF to watch my baby while I worked, that would be illegal here.
I did daycare for years as unlicensed, I didn't know the law. When I found out I got my license. It was a lot of paperwork/inspections...but it doesn't make me a better provider in any way. My parents could care less about it.
There are so many moms advertising on cl everyday. If licensing had the time they could bust them all-but they don't.

[Blackcat31]

I wouldn't report unless I felt there was a danger to kids.
I think the law in MI is absolutely ridiculous and it ticks me off. There is no "legally unlicensed" here. To watch even one child you need to be licensed. I think it's crazy that if I wanted my BFF to watch my baby while I worked, that would be illegal here. I did daycare for years as unlicensed, I didn't know the law. When I found out I got my license. It was a lot of paperwork/inspections...but it doesn't make me a better provider in any way. My parents could care less about it.
There are so many moms advertising on cl everyday. If licensing had the time they could bust them all-but they don't.

In MN, illegal daycare is when someone provides consistent care to someone. NOT one time events.

That would be considered babysitting here and there are no regulations here for babysitters.

[DCBlessings27]

Yes, I would turn her in even though you've known her for a long time. I would do what was best for the children in her care.

We had an illegal provider here get shut down because she was reported. She advertised on Facebook with pictures of 3 month old infants sleeping on a boppy and in a bouncer chair--both the boppy and bouncer were on a couch. In her ad, she was advertising for up to 3 more infants. So, yes the state investigated and shut her down. She was endangering children.

The knowingly illegal daycares frustrate me, but I generally just vent to my dh about them and don't turn them in. If they are endangering children, then I will not hesitate to turn them in. It's fairly impossible to be legally unlicensed here because the only way to do so is if someone watches up to 2 unrelated children for less than 20 hours (total for both kids--not 20 hours each) a week and not on a regular basis. Thus, it's fairly obvious that the ones not licensed are operating illegally.