Would You Turn In?

[Blackcat31]

I'm going out on a limb here with you all

I run an illegal daycare. I've been in business for almost 5 years and I am at full capacity with a large Waiting List.

I have over 250 hours of training courses and classes, my CDA, 45-Hour Certificate , and I have a Masters in ECE. I am confident that I am competent and knowledgable when it comes to running a daycare, running a successful business, and caring and loving all my little kids.

I strongly dislike the stereotyping that all illegal providers are, in a sense, undereducated and unfit to care for children.

I am NOT registered or licensed with my state nor will I ever be. I am completely against the state being privy to my business and everything that I do each and every day with my little friends. I will not jump through hoops, I will not have any outside input regarding MY business and I will not answer to the individuals who are not even knowledgable in ECE at all

I currently charge just as much as our local daycare centers. I have worked hard, spent hours upon weeks upon months upon years getting my daycare to be where I want it to be and I will not jeopardize my hard work for anyone.

I've never had a dcparent or potential dcparent inquire about whether or not I am registered or licensed. They could care less once they've seen my daycare.

OP, I feel it isn't anyone else's business , especially other daycare providers, on what I do in my home. This is my LIFE. This is what I was born to do. I will not have anyone mess with something this important just because they feel upset that I don't have to jump through hoop after hoop.

Just be sure you look at all sides before making the call. I can only imagine how devastating losing my business would mean to me.

Hope that gave you another perspective

The speed limit on my road is 30. I truly believe it should be 40. Atleast for me. I have never had a ticket, am a super safe driver and never had an accident or even been pulled over. But the law is the law. So, I drive 30 on my road.

Running an illegal child care IS my business because if (God forbid) should something happen then regulations get tighter and inspectors get a whole lot pickier.

The way you do things DOES effect everyone else and I am saddened that you feel that your education and the quality of your care buys you the right to side step the law.

[queenbee]

What does that show about your ethics, then, if you are deliberately breaking the law? So what if you are born to do this job? Does that make you above the law or above anyone else who is licensed?

I don't care how many degrees you have or how much training you have... you are illegal and now flaunting it to us that you don't give a rat's behind about the laws.

I'm not flaunting it I was giving the OP a little bit of behind-the-scenes look at what some illegal daycare providers may be doing. This was directed at the OP which was daycarediva. I wasn't asking for input on MY post.

Daycarediva, I sent you a PM

[Alice Of Legend]

I sometimes get lost in the language. By illegal we're talking about a provider that is not licensed but cares for an amount of children that their state laws required them to be licensed/registered for. Right?

I'm legal and unlicensed, because even though I am unlicensed I comply with my states standards of how many DCKs I can have WITHOUT being registered or certified. I also have CPR/First Aid, food handlers, and an ECE degree but I have no interested in getting registered because I am not looking to add any more children to my group. I like my small group! However if my state's requirements changed and allowed less children, i would definitely get registered to be able to keep the kids I have

Maybe the person that you saw was unaware that there were laws regarding how many children they should have? I had no idea what i could and couldn't have when I started but I researched my states requirements to make sure I wasn't doing anything illegal or putting my livelihood (and reputation) on the line. People around me had no idea that we even had different levels of registration (or that you had to be registered at all in some cases) for child care.

Personally I would never be an illegal provider because not only do I think it's just laziness and it comes off (to me anyway) as there's something your hiding that would prevent approval by the state but also think of the liability if something was to happen and it came out you were operating illegally? Yikes!

The speed limit on my road is 30. I truly believe it should be 40. Atleast for me. I have never had a ticket, am a super safe driver and never had an accident or even been pulled over. But the law is the law. So, I drive 30 on my road.

Running an illegal child care IS my business because if (God forbid) should something happen then regulations get tighter and inspectors get a whole lot pickier.

The way you do things DOES effect everyone else and I am saddened that you feel that your education and the quality of your care buys you the right to side step the law.

I agree. Great points.

[Happy Hearts]

I'm not flaunting it I was giving the OP a little bit of behind-the-scenes look at what some illegal daycare providers may be doing. This was directed at the OP which was daycarediva. I wasn't asking for input on MY post.

Daycarediva, I sent you a PM

Seriously? that's all you got out of my opinion about your illegal daycare... that you were flaunting it? Nothing about your ethics? Or being above the law? And, you're still trying to justify your illegal daycare?

Where I live, a daycare that is out of ratio or illegal will be fined $10,000 a day. That is serious money.

[EchoMom]

I'm legal and unlicensed

Personally I would never be an illegal provider because not only do I think it's just laziness and it comes off (to me anyway) as there's something your hiding that would prevent approval by the state but also think of the liability if something was to happen and it came out you were operating illegally? Yikes!

I'm legally unlicensed too.

I disagree with your second point though. I have just spent the whole day NOT being lazy trying to figure out how to get licensed, only to find that it is NOT ALLOWED to be licensed for more kids in my area because of zoning. So I WANT to follow all the rules, do all the work, have NOTHING to hide, but the county will not allow what the state says IS allowable.

[EchoMom]

Where I live, a daycare that is out of ratio or illegal will be fined $10,000 a day. That is serious money.

WOWWWWW! Seriously???

In my area the fine is $100-$500/per child OVER the ratio max and then they tell you to get licensed or reduce your numbers and don't do it again. It's only if you KEEP doing it that you get in big trouble like a felony but you have to be really chronic

[HappyHearts]

Where I live, we have alot of illegal unlicensed childcare providers, or what I like to refer to them as *babysitters*, because that is what the majority of them are. Yes, I believe there is a difference between an early childhood professional and a babysitter.

I try not to get involved, but I consider myself a child advocate, and when i see some of what is going on in illegal daycare's, it infuriates me. A lady right around the corner from me advertises on CL all the time. I look at her FB page and see all the photos of her daycare kids and worry what might happen. Clearly her house is not childproof. Photos of the kids crawling and hanging all over her dogs. Walking in the neighborhood near, and in the street with the kids running several houses in front of her, where is the safety in that? Photos of the kids with her while she is visiting at her moms house, and at the vets for a vet appointment. Seriously! She insists she is legal, here you can have 4 kids legally without being licensed. Her FB page is like an open book. Her photos have shown 6 small children, not including her own 2 in one photo.

I don't care that in some photos she shows the kids doing some art, smiling, having fun. What I do care about is the safety of these children. If you are going to care for other peoples children, then do it right, and do it legally.

Yes, I'm a child advocate, and I will report if I know for a fact someone is doing this illegally. For the safety of the children, it's the right thing to do.

[momofboys]

It is a hard choice. I was watching a couple of kids unlicensed for a while - 2-4 kids for a few hours a day. nce I decided to get licensed and after all the paperwork and changes to my home I realized that what I was doing wasn't fair to the licensed providers who put in so much $ and effort in doing things right. Needless to say it irritates me when I see unlicensed providers.

I am legally unlicensed - our state does not require it. I guess I wonder why it bothers you so? Do you think the provider is breaking rules or making more $$$?? Even though I am unlicensed I abide by the rules - I only watch 2 family's kids currently and both are PT families, I report my income, etc. Unless you see someone in harm's way I don't really see how/why it is anyone's business. JMHO

[sharlan]

Other than being against the law, I don't really see where a license protects either the child or the provider. It sure doesn't protect the provider against false accusations.

I've seen some really bad licensed providers out there. One had an open trampoline in her front yard - licensing showed up when no one was there. The second one had kids jumping from an upstairs bedroom window onto the roof, then onto the grass. Again, licensing showed up after the kids had left.

[daycarediva]

I'm not flaunting it I was giving the OP a little bit of behind-the-scenes look at what some illegal daycare providers may be doing. This was directed at the OP which was daycarediva. I wasn't asking for input on MY post.

Daycarediva, I sent you a PM

I don't have a PM from you? I do applaud your honesty and thank you for your opinion. I might have a different take on it, had this friend of mine have ANY of those qualifications.

I personally, will not go out of ratios for even ONE day. I make $50/day drop in rate and had the opportunity to take my drop in kid ALL WEEK next week for $250. I said no. With murphy's law (and my luck) that would be the ONE day I had an inspection, or the ONE day (in over 6 years) that something happened to 'my' kids.

Every single one of my families (past and present) have asked about licensing. They also ask about my personal qualifications, and a few have asked for copies of my background check.

I really dislike the intrusiveness of the state (poking around my laundry room with my undies on the dryer drying during a pop inspection was mortifying) but I have absolutely NOTHING to hide. EVER. If the state popped in at ANY time, I feel confident KNOWING that I did my absolute best to maintain the safest environment possible.

q's for ya!

My homeowners ins doesn't cover my daycare and I have separate ins. I HAD to provide a copy of my license to get the ins. Are you insured? My dh was VERY concerned with us being sued and losing everything. I actually am forming an LLC to protect my families assets from my business assets.

What if a family you interviewed with (or have currently) asked about licensing? what if they turned you in?

[Blackcat31]

Other than being against the law, I don't really see where a license protects either the child or the provider. It sure doesn't protect the provider against false accusations.

I've seen some really bad licensed providers out there. One had an open trampoline in her front yard - licensing showed up when no one was there. The second one had kids jumping from an upstairs bedroom window onto the roof, then onto the grass. Again, licensing showed up after the kids had left.

I think the providers that are required to be licensed and are, are probably a bit more compliant to the safety measures and regulations that are put in place. We are more up on trainings and new and changing requirements vesus an unlicensed provider.

I think the false accusation thing is a topic all it's own and has alot to do with each state, etc because what happened (or is happening to Kimberli) isn't really something that could happen here as my state has different regulations and rules about that kind of stuff.

You are right though that there are plenty of great licensed and unlicensed providers just as there are lots of really bad ones who are both licensed and unlicensed but at least the ones who are licensed are on the list of facilities to be inspected on a regular basis (whether they are visited or not has nothing to do with the provider) and have a better chance at being caught doing something wrong than the ones who are illegally run.

[daycarediva]

More about my friend. My dh and I have known her since grade school. Her dh works labor jobs and they don't make much money. She was working in fast food, and JUST regained custody of her oldest son back from her ex (details are NOT conclusive, he said/she said but she DID lose custody). She and her current husband have two small children (both under 2).

I am a neat freak, but even by anyone's standards, her house is filthy. As in, I wouldn't want to sit down filth. She advertises as a daycare. She boasts all of these great advantages, and one of them is her price range. Legally unlicensed runs from $20-$30/day around here. She is taking infants for $10/day.

Today was the icing on the cake as she posted a picture of 6 kids (all unrelated to her) on a trampoline jumping without a net.

She naps them two-three to a bed.

Ugh, I have to say, I blame the parents.

[Alice Of Legend]

I'm legally unlicensed too.

I disagree with your second point though. I have just spent the whole day NOT being lazy trying to figure out how to get licensed, only to find that it is NOT ALLOWED to be licensed for more kids in my area because of zoning. So I WANT to follow all the rules, do all the work, have NOTHING to hide, but the county will not allow what the state says IS allowable.

I don't think you are lazy at all, i read your post about trying to get licensed for more children but not being able to because of the insane rules and i think that is unfair! Shouldn't the state law out rank your county's individual regulations? The rules your county has are very over the top and make it nearly impossible which isn't fair.

Like you said you are legally unlicensed as well, so you are in fact following the rules set forth by your county. You haven't gone over the numbers you can have and you're doing what you should to try to become licensed. I was talking about the people that don't care and just do what they want regardless of the regulations. I'm sorry if it came off incorrectly!

[daycarediva]

BC I do see your point regarding the speed limit! Just because I don't agree with a law, doesn't make it ok for me to break it. (Like kids with rules!)



For instance, I think the DUMBEST daycare regulation in my state is that providers MUST clean the table and spray it down with the proper sanitizing solution after use. I was ALMOST cited when my registrar showed up right after lunch (BRUTAL!) and the table was a MESS. Well, the kids ARE and always WILL BE my priority. Guess what? the TABLE must be cleaned & sprayed before the kids. Even she agreed it was ridiculous. Now I comply, and I get the kids involved cleaning instead of herding them into the bathroom to clean and wash up first.

Stupid rule, but as a licensed provider, I agreed to follow the rules, kwim?

[Happy Hearts]

Other than being against the law, I don't really see where a license protects either the child or the provider. It sure doesn't protect the provider against false accusations.

I've seen some really bad licensed providers out there. One had an open trampoline in her front yard - licensing showed up when no one was there. The second one had kids jumping from an upstairs bedroom window onto the roof, then onto the grass. Again, licensing showed up after the kids had left.

To further someone's traffic analogy... I have a driver's license. It surely won't protect me against being rear-ended or being hit by a drunk driver. Nor, will it protect me from me being the cause of an accident. But, it keeps track of me, keeps me in the system, and I buy insurance for any unforseen accident. I drive and have a driver's license; it is the law, so I do it. I've been driving for over 30 years, never caused an accident, never had a traffic violation and never been carded. But, I still have a driver's license.

The point is, if you are illegal it is wrong. Where are your morals and ethics? What happened to those qualities? I'm saddened by those who justify having an illegal daycare and disregard the law. It is NOT ok.