I Thought I Was Shocked Before, But ...

[SilverSabre25]

Ditto the others--this is harassment and you need legal help.

I'm sorry you're going through this. I can barely imagine how stressful and upsetting this must be.

I hope this works out in your favor, quickly.

[Willow]

Kimberli....

I would definitley be contacting an attorney. You ARE being harrassed.

Agree with this OP.

And frankly, I'm not sure why you haven't done so already.


I also don't understand why you haven't gotten a second opinion from someone even further up the chain of command.

I would absolutely not stand for being treated that way.

Not only would I be all over licensing (in a very respectful but persistent way slowly working my way up) but I'd be retaining a lawyer and suing as well. Period.



Being the bigger person has nothing to do with bending over........

[mom2many]

so they cited you for correcting the child and removing him from the situation for a minute or 2 ( time out) AND then sent literature telling you that is what you should do?

I would ask for clarification on that for sure. Send it to the rep and supervisor and the investigating person

something like this. I am confused. I was cited for verbally correcting a child under 2 and removing him from the situation for ---- minutes ( time out)
But now I was sent literature on how I should have handled the situation and that is what it says to do.

so I may not tell a child no. I may not remove him from the area when he is violent. But I am to verbally tell him it is not allowed and remove him from the area to reset his thinking? This seems to be the samee thing just written in a better way.

I agree with this. I would NOT let this situation simply go...It was bad enough what has happened so far. Maybe your analyst did not realize her supervisor already sent out a packet of paperwork and they didn't mean to be duplicating it. I've experienced MAJOR communication issues when dealing with CA licensing!

However, that being said, I would definitely address the fact that you received both of them and insist on a "face to face" with the Manager of that office, as well as, the supervisor and analyst involved.

Years ago, I had an issue with an analyst harassing me and behaving in a very unprofessional manner and tried to handle it through certified letters to her supervisor. It basically went nowhere and I insisted on all parties involved sit down with me and their manager to discuss the problem in person. By getting all parties together, it was easy to go through my list of bullet points and address each one individually and write down a specific response to them. I even told them I was tape recording the entire meeting, because I wanted proof of what transpired. I never had to hire an attorney and the situation resolved itself once I became "proactive" and did this. They realized that I truly wanted to comply and wanted clear and concise answers to their conflicting information on regs.

Because they cited you for doing what it appears the literature they are sending you "says to do"...I would most definitely be asking some specific questions!

Best of luck! lovethis

[mom2many]

I have always wondered if we are allowed to contact and/or discuss a child/family in care with another known previous or present provider. Is that legal? It seems like breathing in California breaks some type of rule! I have the child's previous daycare listed in my records and truly wanted to reach out to them just to see if they had any issues with said family but felt it wouldn't be just?!?

You can contact anyone you want and at this point it might be helpful to collect any information you can. When I had my horrible experience, I was able to find out that a previous provider had an issue with this same daycare dad, who'd filed a bogus complaint on me too and it was useful to bring this to the table, when I had my meeting with them.

[mom2many]

I also believe that there was more to the complaint than just saying you put the child in time out. If they are addressing "anger management" they were likely told by this parent that something more went on. It just doesn't add up that they would do this for no reason. I would definitely be asking some pertinent questions in regards to this too!

[countrymom]

You can contact anyone you want and at this point it might be helpful to collect any information you can. When I had my horrible experience, I was able to find out that a previous provider had an issue with this same daycare dad, who'd filed a bogus complaint on me too and it was useful to bring this to the table, when I had my meeting with them.

I would call them and talk to them. What happens if she did this to them too. Maybe she has a history of doing this.

when the bus driver called on me, I was so shocked. here was a lady who only saw me for 2 weeks and called cas on me. I never talked to this women face to face or anything. cas works so slow here, but it was agonizing because I could have lost everything over a comment. (my kids who were 7,9 and 11 where misbehaving and I said to the bus driver jokingly that she can spank the kids if they misbehave on the bus) well she called and told cas that I said that I beat my children. I knew who called right away. So I started to do some digging. Apparently she called on alot of people, cas was busy out here. bus driver lost her job.

[DaycareMama]

I am so sorry you are going through this. The only thing that I want to add that I don't think was said is that I absolutly would NOT call any other providers who cared for this child. IMHO the mom can turn it into you stalking the child. I know and every sane person would know thats not what it is but the mom could spin it that way. Just my thought

[Kimberli]

This is CA for you.

DO NOT go down to licensing and confront these people. That will only blow up in your face. DO NOT call CPS on this mother, that will also come back to haunt you.

Wait until the person you need to speak to returns this month. Just continue to document every single little thing you get from licensing.

agree ... and this is exactly how I am choosing to roll right now.

[Kimberli]

Agree with this OP.

And frankly, I'm not sure why you haven't done so already.


I also don't understand why you haven't gotten a second opinion from someone even further up the chain of command.

I would absolutely not stand for being treated that way.

Not only would I be all over licensing (in a very respectful but persistent way slowly working my way up) but I'd be retaining a lawyer and suing as well. Period.



Being the bigger person has nothing to do with bending over........

I appealed the original citation to the Licensing Supervisor - it took over a month but in response, I received a berating letter reprimanding me and suggesting that I needed to completely review my business and my discipline policy and consider whether I am even 'fit' to watch children under the age of 3.

I then contacted the Child Care Law Advocate for So. Cal. and she is out of her office without a replacement until the end of October.

Subsequently, large packets of data on discipline have been sent to me - first from the Licensing office and more recently from my Licensing Analyst. The packets were different articles & brochures, but contained the same sort of material. The second packet had the suggestion of Anger Management Classes, Cooperative Parenting Classes and a flyer on Catholic Charities Personal Counseling.

I recontacted the Child Care Law Center and all they really gave me was a referral for the bar association for legal representation. I am not really in the financial position to hire an attorney, but I am hoping to at least have a consultation somewhere and get a 'legal' perspective.

I am also going to contact the Child Care Advocate when she returns the end of this month.

[Kimberli]

Kimberli....

I would definitley be contacting an attorney. You ARE being harrassed.

Would you please refresh my memory and tell me EXACTLY what the licensor wrote on your investigation paperwork. I would like to do some research for you.

Big hugs and hang in there.

My Investigation Report Citation of 8/17/12 reads:

Deficiencies:

102423(a)(1) Personal Rights. Each child receiving services from a family child care home shall be accorded dignity in his/her personal relationships with staff, residents and other persons. Child #1 was placed in time-out multiple times in a day because of the child's behavior.

Plan of Correction:

The licensee has terminated the child as of 8/8/12 and the parent was given a refund for the last 3 days of the week. The licensee has to submit to CCL a written discipline plan on how she is going to handle difficult children in the future so as not to violate the children's rights. Send this to CCL by 8/17/12

Contact RCOE for additional literature on disciplining of children.

... I appreciate your support. Really, really.

[mom2many]

I appealed the original citation to the Licensing Supervisor - it took over a month but in response, I received a berating letter reprimanding me and suggesting that I needed to completely review my business and my discipline policy and consider whether I am even 'fit' to watch children under the age of 3.

I then contacted the Child Care Law Advocate for So. Cal. and she is out of her office without a replacement until the end of October.

Subsequently, large packets of data on discipline have been sent to me - first from the Licensing office and more recently from my Licensing Analyst. The packets were different articles & brochures, but contained the same sort of material. The second packet had the suggestion of Anger Management Classes, Cooperative Parenting Classes and a flyer on Catholic Charities Personal Counseling.

I recontacted the Child Care Law Center and all they really gave me was a referral for the bar association for legal representation. I am not really in the financial position to hire an attorney, but I am hoping to at least have a consultation somewhere and get a 'legal' perspective.

I am also going to contact the Child Care Advocate when she returns the end of this month.

When I was going through my ordeal, I had NO idea these resources were out there. I also had no financial means to hire an attorney and felt my only recourse was to meet this situation head on. I was not going to allow lies and slanderous statements from a malicious individual go on record without a fight for justice. I absolutely despise and resist confrontation and avoid it at all cost.

However, I was pleasantly surprised once I met with the licensing personnel in person and the manager heard me out with his subordinates present. I was respectful, but insisted on some answers and fortunately they realized they were very wrong in their treatment of me and did a complete 180.

If I had realized there was someone who would fight this situation on my behalf, I know I would have contacted them in a heart beat. It ****s that you have to wait, but be patient and don't let it eat away at you or stress you out. I always believe & trust that the truth will prevail!

[mom2many]

My Investigation Report Citation of 8/17/12 reads:

Deficiencies:

102423(a)(1) Personal Rights. Each child receiving services from a family child care home shall be accorded dignity in his/her personal relationships with staff, residents and other persons. Child #1 was placed in time-out multiple times in a day because of the child's behavior.

Plan of Correction:

The licensee has terminated the child as of 8/8/12 and the parent was given a refund for the last 3 days of the week. The licensee has to submit to CCL a written discipline plan on how she is going to handle difficult children in the future so as not to violate the children's rights. Send this to CCL by 8/17/12

Contact RCOE for additional literature on disciplining of children.

... I appreciate your support. Really, really.

I'm sorry....BUT this really makes me crazy, especially since you said the literature they sent you specifically says to do just what you did?!?!

I just don't see how you don't have a case against them harassing you & contradicting themselves????:confused::confused::confused:

People must be held accountable for their actions and this licensing office is definitely in need of a reality check!

[Oneluckymom]

You should contact a lawyer. I think you may have a case. This worker seems to think that you have anger issues but what I don't understand is why because it was not in the original complaint. Have you received the written complaint yet? Did it say anything about anger? It sounds to me like she either knows the parent (had that happen before after terming a client and it was ridiculous although I still came out fine) or that when she came to start the investigation on you she was offended by something you said or did. I'm not saying you did anything but I once had a worker get upset because I called her the wrong name twice. I was busy working with the kids as she was doing my yearly unannounced spot check and because I didn't coddle her and forgot her name she felt I was rude to her. I didn't know I was supposed to offer her tea and biscuits!

DITTO this. It does sound to me that the parent some how knows someone in licensing or the analyst personally.

I WOULD get an attorney. We ALL have a right to be protected legally ESP when your profession is at stake. If they REALLY feel that they you violated that child's rights and endangered him then they can tell it to a judge!!

[Kimberli]

This worker seems to think that you have anger issues but what I don't understand is why because it was not in the original complaint. Have you received the written complaint yet? Did it say anything about anger?

In California at least, we are never allowed to see the complaint or even know who complained about us. We can't read it, we can't look at it - we only get to answer questions that are asked directly to us by the analyst who is investigating the complaint.

My analyst never mentioned anything about anger. I have never been anything but courteous to her during her visits, though she never shows me the same respect in return. She is rude, cold and attempts to be intimidating whenever possible.

This time when she was investigating this complaint, two of my adult daughters were in the kitchen having coffee when she came. One who is 22 lives with me, the 20 year old was visiting. The analyst made a point of telling me that it wasn't really appropriate for my daughters to be 'visiting' during daycare hours because my responsibility was to the children in my care, and they would be a distraction from what I was supposed to be doing. I guess she forgot this is their kitchen too.

She must really be a miserable woman. I do feel for someone who is so unhappy. But ... that certainly doesn't mean that it's okay for her to take out her own issues on myself and my family.

[MyAngels]

This time when she was investigating this complaint, two of my adult daughters were in the kitchen having coffee when she came. One who is 22 lives with me, the 20 year old was visiting. The analyst made a point of telling me that it wasn't really appropriate for my daughters to be 'visiting' during daycare hours because my responsibility was to the children in my care, and they would be a distraction from what I was supposed to be doing. I guess she forgot this is their kitchen too.

She probably didn't want an adult witness to her behavior.

After reading both these threads I'm wondering if you can find an attorney who would take this on a contingency basis. Definitely worth looking into.

All of this makes me glad I don't live in California .