Naptime

[Crystal]

Come on Crystal. You are a Master Teacher. You know that ANY situation where a child who is in group care is requiring one to one care for two solid hours daily it is not MINOR. That is FUNDAMENTAL GROUP CHILD CARE 101

I do think that's minor.....I think that naptime needs to be more of a NON issue with providers. I know it is annoying and time consuming, but consistency will help transition this child to napping when reqired.....PROBABLY. Of course there is a possibility that it will never end, but that's not likely. And, yes, I am a Master Teacher, and as a Master Teacher, I would continue to work with this child to make it work FOR HIM. I cannot say how long I would continue to work with him on it, as it would depend on other behaviors he exhibits.....if he has multiple issues, I'd consider that it may not work and have to let him go, but if this is his ONLY issue, and he is otherwise happy, kind and follows direcction (for the most part) then NO I would not terminate. Ultimitley, our job is to do what is best for the child...giving up on children over minor issues is NOT in the best interest of the child.....

I understand the need for the provider to have a break, but we do not NEED a two hour break....what other job gives you a two hour lunch break every day? And, because all of the other children are sleeping, providing one on one for this child to help him learn to self-sooth and nap should not be THAT big of a deal.

To the OP, only you can decide when you have had enough....I am not telling you that you shouldn't terminate, especially if you are at the point that it is causing you to resent the child (not saying you are, just IF you are).

[jen]

I don't know about anyone else but nap time is NOT a two hour break for me!!!

I am doing the lunch dishes, preparing the afternoon activity, checking on sleeping kids, answering emails from parents, ordering supplies....

Nap time is a 30 minute break at best. I already work an 11 hour day...I am NOT going to spend my time after hours that should be spent with MY kids, answering parent emails, ordering supplies or preparing activities.

Ultimately our job is, as parents, to do what is in the best interest of our own kids. As providers our job is to do what is best for the GROUP. I can't and I won't take away from my time with my own children at night or from other kids who are fitting in to the routine, because I have spent weeks and weeks trying to transition a kid in to napping no matter how good he may otherwise be.

Obviously, I don't expect miracles on the first day. I do expect a child to be (for the most part) transitioned by the end of the first month.

[nannyde]

I don't know about anyone else but nap time is NOT a two hour break for me!!!

I am doing the lunch dishes, preparing the afternoon activity, checking on sleeping kids, answering emails from parents, ordering supplies....

Nap time is a 30 minute break at best. I already work an 11 hour day...I am NOT going to spend my time after hours that should be spent with MY kids, answering parent emails, ordering supplies or preparing activities.

Ultimately our job is, as parents, to do what is in the best interest of our own kids. As providers our job is to do what is best for the GROUP. I can't and I won't take away from my time with my own children at night or from other kids who are fitting in to the routine, because I have spent weeks and weeks trying to transition a kid in to napping no matter how good he may otherwise be.

Obviously, I don't expect miracles on the first day. I do expect a child to be (for the most part) transitioned by the end of the first month.

And there it is. Simple

[Daycare Mommy]

I don't think it's just a generic non-napping child issue. That one has been argued to death on these boards. I saw it as more of a uncooperative parent situation. They've never put him down for a nap or to bed in the evening unless he fell asleep on his own. I don't really see how that's compatible with the way most of us do care. (All kids nap at the same time) If this dcb plays through nap and passes out 5 minutes before the other kids wake, then we're stuck in the house until that kid wakes up. "No Sally, Bobby, Eric, Jason, and Elizabeth, we can't go outside for the next 2 hours because dcb is napping and I have to keep an eye on him." That's not a scenario I think is minor. It could be very limiting.

Like I said, if it were me I'd try to get the parents to help by doing the same routine at bedtime that I do at naptime, so the poor kid can have some consistency. If they won't help and I've already been trying for a good month without improvement, I don't think it's unreasonable to give notice.

[DBug]

I had a little one like this at the center I worked at. I had to get all of the other toddlers to sleep, while he was sitting in my lap (I'd use my legs to make him stay put otherwise he'd run wild). Then when it was his turn, he had gotten a good cuddle out of it and was ready to lay down. To keep him on his cot, I would lean across him with my head propped on one hand -- I wasn't actually touching him or holding him down (against regulations), but if he wiggled he'd bump against me. And I would stroke his face with my free hand. I think having limited movement really helped. After everyone else was asleep, it only took him another 10 minutes or so to drift off. It was worth the work, cuz that child was a wild one!

I don't know if this child is the same, but it's one more trick to try!

[Crystal]

I don't think it's just a generic non-napping child issue. That one has been argued to death on these boards. I saw it as more of a uncooperative parent situation. They've never put him down for a nap or to bed in the evening unless he fell asleep on his own. I don't really see how that's compatible with the way most of us do care. (All kids nap at the same time) If this dcb plays through nap and passes out 5 minutes before the other kids wake, then we're stuck in the house until that kid wakes up. "No Sally, Bobby, Eric, Jason, and Elizabeth, we can't go outside for the next 2 hours because dcb is napping and I have to keep an eye on him." That's not a scenario I think is minor. It could be very limiting.

Like I said, if it were me I'd try to get the parents to help by doing the same routine at bedtime that I do at naptime, so the poor kid can have some consistency. If they won't help and I've already been trying for a good month without improvement, I don't think it's unreasonable to give notice.

I TOTALLY agree with you that the parent needs to get on board and make sure that they are being responsible about ensuring th child has a decent bedtime/naptime and that they teach him to go to bed and fall asleep on his own. I also agree that if the parent isn't willing to help out with this, that THAT may be reason for termination, but not simply because the child won't nap.

[Crystal]

I had a little one like this at the center I worked at. I had to get all of the other toddlers to sleep, while he was sitting in my lap (I'd use my legs to make him stay put otherwise he'd run wild). Then when it was his turn, he had gotten a good cuddle out of it and was ready to lay down. To keep him on his cot, I would lean across him with my head propped on one hand -- I wasn't actually touching him or holding him down (against regulations), but if he wiggled he'd bump against me. And I would stroke his face with my free hand. I think having limited movement really helped. After everyone else was asleep, it only took him another 10 minutes or so to drift off. It was worth the work, cuz that child was a wild one!

I don't know if this child is the same, but it's one more trick to try!

And there it is. Simple. ::

[nannyde]

I TOTALLY agree with you that the parent needs to get on board and make sure that they are being responsible about ensuring th child has a decent bedtime/naptime and that they teach him to go to bed and fall asleep on his own. I also agree that if the parent isn't willing to help out with this, that THAT may be reason for termination, but not simply because the child won't nap.

Did you miss this part of the OP Crystal?

I've talked to them many times about setting up a routine and how to put him down to sleep. They always listen and say they will begin doing it but never do.

[nannyde]

And there it is. Simple. ::

NO

It's not training him to go to bed AWAKE and put himself to sleep.

This "technique" would not work on the child who knows that all he has to do is ROLL PAST the adults arms or body in order to get up. The adult is just framing the child with her body. VERY VERY few children who have never had to put themselves to sleep in their lives would not realize quickly that the adults "frame" over their bodies would move away if the child did any kind of force or pushing on the adults body. If the adult does not "move away" then they are entrapping the child.

May have fooled one kid one time but most likely would not fool a child who has been successful for over two years at home and four non stop weeks in day care from physically getting past the adult in a split second and getting up.

Rediculous

[Janet]

Maybe it's just me...

but I do need a nice break every day! Crystal, maybe you're super-human and don't require some time during the day to recharge, but I'm just a mere human and I need a little break. Let me ask you this, what time do your kids arrive? Also, what time does your nap time begin? What do you do during the time in between? I know that I need the rest because my kids fall asleep within 5 minutes of laying on their cots, and that's all of them. I don't have to pat backs, or rub heads or rock anyone to sleep. They ALL fall asleep on their own, including the 5 month old baby. We have very physically active days from start to finish. I get my first kid at 7:00am and my last one leaves at 5:45pm. It's a long day! If I had a kid that was a screamer at nap time, I would give them a fair amount of time to adjust, but really...4 weeks? Doesn't that seem pretty unfair to the rest of the kids that are not able to sleep because of the screaming? I'm not willing to put myself and the other children in my care miserable because I don't want to lose the income from the screamer child. It's not worth it to me. Also, naptime IS NOT EVER a 2 hour break for me! This is the time that I do the house cleaning chores that I don't do while the kids are awake and it's the time that I take care of food program paperwork, attendance, billing, lesson plans, and any other paperwork that I have to do. I also squeeze in time to eat lunch and spend some time with my daughter without interruption.

I don't give up on a child's naptime screaming right away. I work with the child for a maximum time of 2 weeks before I decide to terminate. I'm always very upfront with the child's parents about my naptime policies and if there are any naptime issues with the child, I talk to the parents about it. I've always worked with the parents regarding naptime issues and I've only had to term one family because of it (along with other issues). I currently have a dcb2 who I almost termed because he is a naptime screamer, but his parents and I worked out a schedule that works for all of us and lets him have the comfort of napping at home, because his parents schedules are flexible enough to allow it. It's not like I'm expecting kids to sleep during my daily scheduled naptime on the first day, I give them time to adjust. I'm just not willing to put one child's desire to stay up and play ahead of everyone else's need to rest.

[fctjc1979]

My 16-month-old puts herself down for her own naps. At 10-11am she crawls up into my lap or curls up with her big frog stuffed animal (it's bigger than she is) and goes to sleep. She does the same at 4-5pm. Sometimes she needs a sippy cup of milk, sometimes she doesn't. I let her do this because I only do daycare one day a week and they are older children that don't require naps.

BIG BUT------- If I were going to be doing full time child care or if I had to send her to a daycare home or center, I know that this would not be acceptable unless these times worked with the daycare's times and the provider was ok with the process - very doubtful. It is definitely the parents' job to prepare their child for fitting in at daycare. If parents can't or won't do this, they should be prepared for having major issues with their provider because most likely, if the parents won't work with the provider, this is probably not the only issue they are going to have that will create friction.

[DBug]

NO

It's not training him to go to bed AWAKE and put himself to sleep.

This "technique" would not work on the child who knows that all he has to do is ROLL PAST the adults arms or body in order to get up. The adult is just framing the child with her body. VERY VERY few children who have never had to put themselves to sleep in their lives would not realize quickly that the adults "frame" over their bodies would move away if the child did any kind of force or pushing on the adults body. If the adult does not "move away" then they are entrapping the child.

May have fooled one kid one time but most likely would not fool a child who has been successful for over two years at home and four non stop weeks in day care from physically getting past the adult in a split second and getting up.

Rediculous

Hey, I'm just offering ideas. It's worked for me on my toughest kid, and has worked on the more "average" ones as well that need some help learning how to fall asleep. I do wean them off of it over the course of a week or two. No, it won't work for every kid, but nothing ever will. It's just an idea ... no need to shoot it down without having tried it yourself. We all have our own methods, and I think we need to respect that about each other.

[Crystal]

but I do need a nice break every day! Crystal, maybe you're super-human and don't require some time during the day to recharge, but I'm just a mere human and I need a little break. Let me ask you this, what time do your kids arrive? Also, what time does your nap time begin? What do you do during the time in between? I know that I need the rest because my kids fall asleep within 5 minutes of laying on their cots, and that's all of them. I don't have to pat backs, or rub heads or rock anyone to sleep. They ALL fall asleep on their own, including the 5 month old baby. We have very physically active days from start to finish. I get my first kid at 7:00am and my last one leaves at 5:45pm. It's a long day! If I had a kid that was a screamer at nap time, I would give them a fair amount of time to adjust, but really...4 weeks? Doesn't that seem pretty unfair to the rest of the kids that are not able to sleep because of the screaming? I'm not willing to put myself and the other children in my care miserable because I don't want to lose the income from the screamer child. It's not worth it to me. Also, naptime IS NOT EVER a 2 hour break for me! This is the time that I do the house cleaning chores that I don't do while the kids are awake and it's the time that I take care of food program paperwork, attendance, billing, lesson plans, and any other paperwork that I have to do. I also squeeze in time to eat lunch and spend some time with my daughter without interruption.

.

Of course you need a break every day....I clearly stated that providers DO need a break. And, I also said that ALL of my kids lay down and are asleep within 10 minutes.
My day starts when I get up at 5:30 a.m. I shower, dress etc and am downstairs by 6:00 a.m. I sweep and mop, vaccuum, set up my daily activities, then have a few minutes on the computer. My first child arrives between 6:45 and 7:00. I work until 6:00 p.m. with children, then I cleanup from the day. In between opening and naptime, we do beakfast, circle time and small group activities, play outside, have lunch, clean up, outside, tv time then naptime. I work hard, with 14 kids, and my kids play hard, so they are exhausted by naptime (betwen 12:30 and 1:00 until 2:30 or 3:00) and are easy to put down for nap. Of course, I have had children who needed the extra time and attention at nap, and I give them that....usually within a day or two they begin to nap without the extra attention.

During naptime, I take my break, I do paperwork, which tends to be alot because I almost always have reports to type up for ECERS that I conduct for other programs, homework if I have any, get snack ready, etc. So, yes, I too have a LONG day. But it's my job and I do it without complaint.

Now, I DO agree with you that it is not okay for this child to scream his head off.....and he does need to adjust...and the parents DO need to help out....but as the OP stated, she puts him in another area so that it doesn't keep the others awake. If she is able to do that and it isn't effecting the others, then what is the big deal?

Now, as far as how the parents allow the child to fall asleep, I wouldn't personally do it with my own child, BUT, they ARE his parents, and it is their choice to allow him to sleep that way AT HOME if they so choose. I have several kids who have no bedtime and can stay up as late as they want and fall asleep watching tv....would I do it? NO....but I am NOT their MOm and it's really none of my business. Do I have an issue with them sleeping here? NO. It may be more difficult for them to "get it" when they first start, but they do learn - just as with any other "rules" that are different than home - that it is different here and they will do it HERE the way we do it HERE and they will do it at HOME the way they do it at HOME.

And, FTR, my OP was regarding terminating families over minor issues....it just seems very common for providers to automatically say "terminate". Well, that is much easier said than done, and I don't think it is good advice.

[Crystal]

Hey, I'm just offering ideas. It's worked for me on my toughest kid, and has worked on the more "average" ones as well that need some help learning how to fall asleep. I do wean them off of it over the course of a week or two. No, it won't work for every kid, but nothing ever will. It's just an idea ... no need to shoot it down without having tried it yourself. We all have our own methods, and I think we need to respect that about each other.

Thank you for this.

[Janet]

Who knew nap time was so controversial?!?!?!?

Crystal, if what you're doing works for you, then more power to you, my friend. I live in a house that is like a megaphone. Every sound in my house bounces off the walls and echoes throughout the entire upstairs, so one child even crying or talking to themselves wakes the other kids up. Even just walking across my floor and stepping on this one piece of laminate in my dining room that squeaks is super loud. It ****s because I've accidentally stepped on it and have had kids wake up from it. I've wised up now and marked it so I know to step around it or over it.

It sounds like you keep your kids very engaged and you sound like your days are super busy too. I'd like to have the kind of energy that would allow me to wake up at 5:30am and go all the way until 6:00pm without taking time for myself, but I don't. I guess that's why you might see me as unprofessional. I just know my limitations. I need a daily time to disconnect even just for a 30 minutes, so that I can be ready for my afternoons. It's not really my time if I'm spending it rubbing the back of a child who needs the extra attention. It's also not really my time if I have to play board games or do arts & crafts with a child who doesn't nap. It's not really my time if I have to let a baby sleep in my arms because the baby is used to that at home. The entire point of having the time to only myself is because I need to have that in order to put forth the effort in the afternoon like I do in the mornings. Maybe it's something that only I experience, maybe others do, too. I require a little bit of "personal space" in order to do my best and I always want to do my best.

Crystal, for the record, I don't terminate for just any little reason. I can count the number of families that I've terminated in 6 years on one hand. I've never had families pull their children from my care for any reasons other than job losses, moving, and retaliation because I've upset them and I can count that number on one hand, too. It takes a lot to push me to terminate care. The number one reason that I've terminated families is because it was in the best interest of the rest of the families, my family and myself. I could tell you every reason that I had for terminating care for the families that I termed, and I don't think that anyone, including yourself, would do things any differently.