Termination Gone Wrong

[PositvityRuLes]

A rib fracture from laughing hysterically?

:::::::::: That should get her goat!

[momofboys]

DId you count the pennies? I'd love to know whether she shorted you or overpaid you or gave you quality pennies!

[Lucy]

Here's what I'm wondering: Did you discuss any of this verbally with her before termination letter? I had a new girl start in April who's mom was told in the interview I close at 5:15. First week she came 5:30-5:50. Friday of that week I verbally said, "For this to work I really need her picked up by 5:15. I'd even be fine with 5:20." She has come at 5:10 ever since. I think if you had just mentioned about hiring the assistant and paying her for no reason and mention to her that the nap schedule just isn't working very well for me and could I maybe try to get him on a schedule that fits better in my daycare...etc. Basically, I'm asking was this TALKED about before you decided to terminate? If you just sprang the termination on the parent with zero discussion, I'd be miffed too if I were her.

My next comment, and this is assuming something was discussed verbally before you gave her the termination letter: I think you over-explained. I would just state that their varied schedule is just not working, and upon much reflection, you've decided to discontinue your contract with the family on X date (2 weeks from date of letter.) Don't go into lengthy explanation of what they did wrong and why it ticked you off. People don't take things well when it concerns their kids. Just stick to the brief facts, be totally professional and business-like, and be done with it. And in any further correspondence, I would never get argumentative. Just keep it on a business level (and think rotten things in your mind LOL). Also, I agree with the mom that the remaining balance due should have DEFINITELY been included in the termination letter.

All that being said, I do not blame you for terminating, and I'm not trying to be on the mom's side. You asked for constructive criticism, and I'm just being honest and saying what I have done in the past.

Basically... verbal communication first, then termination letter short and to the point including balance due.

[Lucy]

I can give you a great bit of advice for the future.

You don't have to explain ANYTHING to parents regarding giving them notice. This whole thing could have been avoided by you giving them notice once they paid up for what they have used and you simply telling them that you made a change in your business structure that does not include the schedule they need for their family. You don't have to be specific to what that change is. You don't have to get personal. Just a business decision. Offer them a two week notice which they will rarely ever use because they are pissed. If they take you up on it.. get thru it with a big fat smile on your face.

End.

McDonalds doesn't EXPLAIN to customers why they their BBQ pork sandwiches off of their menu. It's none of our business. They offer what they offer. Day care is the same.

Providers get into these kinds of discussions with parents because they feel they NEED to explain... need to clarify... need to justify... need to give the parent the life experience of having a consequence for their behavior... need to FINALLY be in the one up position... need to get even... need to tell THEM what you are going to do as opposed to THEM telling YOU what THEY are going to do... etc. etc.

None of that is EVER necessary. Once they move on they won't give you a second thought. They don't care what you think. They don't care how you felt. They don't care about you in ANY way. They want a YES today and your worth is ONLY for that YES today.

Once you give them a NO they have NO use for you. Why discuss it? Why do anything BUT give them the NO?

When a parent is getting away with what you have allowed them to get away with they are going to be SUPER mad when they get the NO. They know that it's going to be really hard to find someone to just let them come whenever they want and only pay for the days they do decide to come. They know that it's going to be EXTREMELY difficult to find someone with an open slot that they can have access to any day of the week any time of the week. They KNOW they aren't going to be able to have that schedule AND be able to pick and choose a routine and schedule for their child while they are there.

You have given them the DREAM situation. They get to do what they want AND be jerks about it while they are getting the great deal. Now who would want that to end? Of course they are going to act out. They've been acting out with you from the begining and they want that to continue. They are going to have a hard time finding someone who will let them behave badly and they know it.

I would advise NOT allowing less than three day a week schedules that are FIXED schedules. If the parent chooses not to bring the child on the fixed days then any other days they use must be paid for in ADDITION to the fixed days AND they must call to confirm that they can HAVE those additional days on a day to day basis. Make sure you say NO to them for the additional days quite a bit in the begining so they get the message that if there is any chance they DO need additional days they need to pay for that weekly in advance and scheduled.

Don't ever allow a parent to decide your schedule with the kid in your house. You tell them what you offer and if they don't like it they can hurry on down the street. I would never be able to get my clients to agree on a schedule for the kids. I couldn't get them to agree on what kind of paper towels I should use. I would NEVER allow them to tell me what I was going to do with their kids in my house. They don't care for their child in a group. They couldn't POSSIBLY know what you MUST do for the group, your children, and YOU during the day to make this whole thing work. The parents would be the last people on the planet I would allow to decide their kids schedule. This is MY house and I decide what we do in MY house.

Lesson learned. Take the 30 dollar hit if you have to and have them be gone from your life and your mind.

Agree with this. Didn't read it before I wrote mine, but pretty much says the same thing about over-explaining in your termination letter. You opened them up to fight with you on the points you brought up in the letter. (even though your points were correct.)

[BabyMomma]

I'm hip

I can give you a great bit of advice for the future.

You don't have to explain ANYTHING to parents regarding giving them notice. This whole thing could have been avoided by you giving them notice once they paid up for what they have used and you simply telling them that you made a change in your business structure that does not include the schedule they need for their family. You don't have to be specific to what that change is. You don't have to get personal. Just a business decision. Offer them a two week notice which they will rarely ever use because they are pissed. If they take you up on it.. get thru it with a big fat smile on your face.

End.

McDonalds doesn't EXPLAIN to customers why they their BBQ pork sandwiches off of their menu. It's none of our business. They offer what they offer. Day care is the same.

Providers get into these kinds of discussions with parents because they feel they NEED to explain... need to clarify... need to justify... need to give the parent the life experience of having a consequence for their behavior... need to FINALLY be in the one up position... need to get even... need to tell THEM what you are going to do as opposed to THEM telling YOU what THEY are going to do... etc. etc.

None of that is EVER necessary. Once they move on they won't give you a second thought. They don't care what you think. They don't care how you felt. They don't care about you in ANY way. They want a YES today and your worth is ONLY for that YES today.

Once you give them a NO they have NO use for you. Why discuss it? Why do anything BUT give them the NO?

When a parent is getting away with what you have allowed them to get away with they are going to be SUPER mad when they get the NO. They know that it's going to be really hard to find someone to just let them come whenever they want and only pay for the days they do decide to come. They know that it's going to be EXTREMELY difficult to find someone with an open slot that they can have access to any day of the week any time of the week. They KNOW they aren't going to be able to have that schedule AND be able to pick and choose a routine and schedule for their child while they are there.

You have given them the DREAM situation. They get to do what they want AND be jerks about it while they are getting the great deal. Now who would want that to end? Of course they are going to act out. They've been acting out with you from the begining and they want that to continue. They are going to have a hard time finding someone who will let them behave badly and they know it.

I would advise NOT allowing less than three day a week schedules that are FIXED schedules. If the parent chooses not to bring the child on the fixed days then any other days they use must be paid for in ADDITION to the fixed days AND they must call to confirm that they can HAVE those additional days on a day to day basis. Make sure you say NO to them for the additional days quite a bit in the begining so they get the message that if there is any chance they DO need additional days they need to pay for that weekly in advance and scheduled.

Don't ever allow a parent to decide your schedule with the kid in your house. You tell them what you offer and if they don't like it they can hurry on down the street. I would never be able to get my clients to agree on a schedule for the kids. I couldn't get them to agree on what kind of paper towels I should use. I would NEVER allow them to tell me what I was going to do with their kids in my house. They don't care for their child in a group. They couldn't POSSIBLY know what you MUST do for the group, your children, and YOU during the day to make this whole thing work. The parents would be the last people on the planet I would allow to decide their kids schedule. This is MY house and I decide what we do in MY house.

Lesson learned. Take the 30 dollar hit if you have to and have them be gone from your life and your mind.

I agree to the 10th power. You don't have to explain "Shuga Honey Ice Tea" to anyone! It's YOUR childcare business. You'll run yourself ragged trying to explain yourself to folks who know better and know exactly what they're doing.

People will try you anytime they think they can get away with it. That's the kind of world we're living in...do as I say, not as I do. Enjoy your penny bag for what it's worth and keep it moving!

[Unregistered]

I agree you don't have to explain any termination, but getting a parent mad at you does have consequences. Either they falsely report you or bad mouth you to others in the community. I have found its much better to be nice and say your hours are changing, or you are scaling down. In this case, at least she did pay and who cares if its in pennies??

Wouldn't bother me in the least bit, and its true she went to a lot of trouble just to do that which only leads me to conclude she is NUTS!!! I only wish we could administer psy. test to parents before picking them up...."What does this picture remind you of" and so fourth, . You can check them out quite a bit on the internet, and in the county records; but still its not fool proof.

Over the years I've had a few nasty people, and it was always over money, and their unwillingness to understand I provide a valuable service, that is not dependent on their pay schedule, or what they think or WHEN they should pay me. The really rude ones are the ones who drop on a thur. or fri. and refuse to pay for the following week, thus the week notice they agreed to. I don't go to small claims, its not enough to warrant that, but I've provided information that got two garnished. And one is currently in trouble for mortgage fraud.... Apparently some think because we do daycare out of our homes that we can be taken advantage of, or we have no recourse. On the upside.. over the years most of my parents have been great and we have a great relationship. Its just the bad apples I don't have a tolerance for.

[SandeeAR]

Take the money to the bank and find out exactly how much is there.

Then, She needs a receipt right? For taxes??? Type/write one for 3000 pennies. She will surely get questioned if she turns her stuff over to a CPA ::::::::::

[Candyland]

No seriously....write them a letter and simply say, "Thanks for your payment". It's passive aggressive and if they don't "get your goat" they will be even more pissed off! PLUS, YOU look like the professional!

this would be a great one to do; but first count the money just to make sure it's really $30 worth of pennies.

[j.ann]

I can see both sides. But i would have to side with the mom. it's such bullstuff that parents need to give notice before leaving and a daycare provider can just terminate with absolutely no notice. that DOES leave a parent in a bind. I wouldn't have given you the thirty dollars either.

[LittleD]

Oh I wouldn't say a parent can't terminate without notice. If the child is being neglected, and you can prove it, I'm sure a court would allow you to leave without giving notice...

[nannyde]

I loved that thread. One of the best threads EVER on daycare.com

[laundrymom]

This quoted response is what I would have done.

In my honest opinion, I think the entire bottom portion of your original post was an invitation for trouble. I would have given 2weeks, smiled and wished them well.

As for the pennies, rofl. That's funny, I don't care who you are.

I would never have gotten into a pi$$ing match through email. Each mail you sent sounded more and more like you were whining that she had moved on. I think mom was very professional ( until the pennies) and you did term in writing effective immediately. No matter your words w dad, you spelled out in black and white the words that made her feel unwelcome. If I were mom, I would have not been as professional.

I'm really not a mean person, look through my previous posts, I simply am honest with what I see and behind every post I make is 26 years of being a licensed family childcare provider. I hope not to offend. Good luck with however you choose to respond, personally I would write a reciept, send it out and move on.

I don't think that you were at all wrong for terminating. The one thing I have learned (the hard way) is it is best not to get in to these conversations with parents. They are hurt and upset and you just can't win.

Short and sweet!

For termination: Due to incompatible schedules I will no longer be able to care for your child as of (two weeks). If you find alternative care prior to that date, please feel free to begin that care immediately. For the remainder of his time with me I will need a schedule for each week by Sunday evening. If you have not arrived within 30 minutes of your scheduled arrival time I will need to send home my assistant home and I will no longer be able to accomodate you for that day.

In response to the other stuff: "I am sorry that you feel that way. It was certainly not my intention. We think dcb is a wonderful child and will thrive in the appropriate setting.

[laundrymom]

I agree Nan, although the nap for 4 yr old one got a ton of ideas flowing.

[Willow]

I can see both sides. But i would have to side with the mom. it's such bullstuff that parents need to give notice before leaving and a daycare provider can just terminate with absolutely no notice. that DOES leave a parent in a bind. I wouldn't have given you the thirty dollars either.

Wondering if the OP is around.....and if the above is the former disgruntled client who STILL couldn't let go of what happened and that's why they felt the need to drag this back up ::


Seriously.....it's all about the poor parents being left in a bind? Get real. What about the provider left in a bind when their child is dropped off at unpredictable hours miserable and screaming through the day because they're never cared for properly at home. That doesn't leave them and every single other child in their care in a bind AT - ALL does is now....

[crazydaycarelady]

I would have given the family a 2 week notice and hoped they didn't take me up on it.

Looking at how dcm handled the situation I would say this was a blessing in disquise.