Holy !@#T!!! Shortest Enrollment Ever!

[jen]

actually, i just went and found that post. if you had read it ALL, you would see in the section i quoted that in bold i replied to everything the unregistered member threw at me.....then out of the quote i said blah, blah, blah.....as a GENERAL I am done talking about this response, not AT the unregistered poster. But thanks for sharing your highly valued opinion.

Crystal, I am aware that you responded to her and that you did so in a respectful way. What I don't understand is why you followed up with the blah, blah, blah. It seems your responses were well thought out and insightful right up until that point.

In any case, my intention was never to debate common courtesy with you. We all have a different set of expectations for ourselves and others.

[Unregistered]

my 3 cents

Why did the provider have to be professional? Who was she supposed to call? Her priest?

She had every right to talk in any way she felt to the parents and the back up number. She WAS upset. She was shaking. Why should she temper that in ANY way?

The way she managed this resulted in that kid being picked up in 35 minutes. That was EXCELLENT. The end result...of the kid being picked up immediately and the Mom seeing how upset she was was PERFECT.

We are flesh and bone. We are on the front line of this generation of out of control kids and entitled parents. We SHOULD show them EXACTLY how we feel. We have no more obligation to temper that then we do to tolerate that.

And a quick mention to the fact that the Mom did NOT pay a single penny for this 45 minutes. She had NO indication she would ever get paid. She brought the kid in and slammed the provider with the new info that there were problems with her funding.

She got a free 45 minutes and a great life lesson. She didn't like it but that's tough. Nothing happened to the kid. The kid got by with having ZERO consequences for what she did. The Mom got by without an apology and felt so entitled to her "respect" that she turned the provider in to the DHS and publicly tried to shame her.

The kid treated the provider like crap. The Mom was worse. Neither of them deserved ANYTHING but the TRUTH. The kid needed to see how devestated and upset the provider was and the Mom needed to get her kid kicked out of care immediately.

The providers ONLY responsibility was to get that kid into the Moms custody as soon as she could manage and keep the kid and the other kids safe until that could happen. The Mom said a lot of things about the provider but she didn't say a word that the child was harmed in any way. The kid was in such good spirits that even after she was told to lie down and smacked the provider that she felt comfortable not minding on the step while waiting for the Mom. The kid was in such great spirits when she left that even when having immediate access to her MOMMY she bolted off down the sidewalk and didn't want to get in the car. If she was traumatized she would have clung to her Mother and bolted for the car. She wouldn't have bolted off and kicked and screamed when she was put in the car seat.

The provider didn't have any obligation to any of them to do anything other than what she did. She didn't have to pretend it didn't happen or have a therapy session with the kid afterwards. She didn't have to "make nice" with the parents who didn't answer their phones... or the back up number person. She had every right in the world to be completely honest and react to what had happened truthfully with all of the adults.

The ONLY thing this provider did wrong was allow this parent in without money, allowed her to start short notice, and have the kid lay down shortly after she arrived. The truth is that whether or not the kid was there at eight a.m. or noon... there is an extremely extremely extremely high liklihood that she would have done the same thing IF she made it till nap without receiving a no from the provider. With the way she behaved with the Mom afterwards... it's a pretty good indication that the slap to the providers face would have come closer to 8 a.m. then noon if she would have come in the morning. Laying down may have been what set her off at that time of day but a kid that feels comfortable slapping a stranger adult would have done the same thing earlier if things weren't going her way.

Having this happen at nap was most likely a blessing to the other children and the provider. At least she had the TIME to get the parents there right away without the poor other kids having to witness any more of it then they already did.

I wanted to comment on the Only thing this provider did wrong.......

I don't know that the provider did anything wrong here...... I don't think we always get a say of when our clients are going to start. It's more at the need of the parents. She did have an interview-the parent failed to tell her many things that could have helped the provider- maybe out of embarrassment or for whatever reason. Sounds like the child came from other care, and needed care right away in order for parent to work. The money end of it, again it sounded like she was going to be a state paid kid- and that is another thing you don't have much control over when you take state kids. Having the child nap right away......it was the time needed by the parent, and the provider was not cruel, mean, demanding etc... I find that the provider handled this situation well. Nan- I agree with you and you crack me up. This thread was much needed- because if this should happen to me, I feel better equipped to handle a situation as the owner of my childcare. I have been in a situation where I have had no say other then to quit my job or be abused by a huge three year old. As Nan said- when it became about money.......and how it was causing money issues with other kids being afraid, parents pulling the kids, then and there was it addressed and the child removed from the Center. Similar situation-over nap issues.

I am sure there are trolls out there....... I am not one of them. I have a face, and a name. I just chose not to use it at this time. I don't know how having those things would change anything. I have an opinion just as everyone else and you are more then welcome to take it or leave it. I thank all of the peeps that have posted because I have learned so much and hope that I help others to grow and learn too. I happen to value Nan's advice, I have read a lot of it, listened to a lot of her talks, share a lot of the same walks of life, and respect her years of experience. I did my research and she comes from a good place. I have not always felt this way, at first I thought she was some type of drill Sargent. Not at all. She has a big heart for these kiddo's and she knows her stuff. I hope Nan puts a book out there one day.

Crystal, I don't agree with you putting most of it on the Provider and always looking at things from the kids point of view. The kids don't have the experiences to know what is in their best interest as the adults do. They just don't. I am not saying to dismiss the kids feelings all together or be cold but in this case, hitting the provider was just not ok- no matter what. This child has clearly learned to manipulate adults to get what she wants, and she succeeded, so I see it that, the provider did the best thing and terminated care. If the provider would have let the situation go on and another child in her care was hurt because of this violent kid, I see it as everyone would have come down on the provider.......Why did you allow this child to stay in your care knowing this kid had clear issues. As nan said the provider was in her own right to be upset and shook up over this. I would have been.

On a silly side of this, I wonder if this amazing child will get an ooompa loompa for Christmas, or a goose that lays golden eggs for Easter...... maybe that is what she went running down the block looking for........tee hee.

I just hope the parent wises up and learns from this. She will but it will take a few more bad happenings and most likely her child will end up on some type of medication to handle her outburst, when really all it would have taken was better parenting skills. The parent is going to learn the hard way and that will be when the child is out of control for her.

To the provider- thanks for sharing this experience. I hope all of us continue to share the good and the bad of daily childcare. You all help shape me to be a better provider. Thank you~

[e.j.]

I have a hard time separating from the fact that the child arrived at nap time on her first day. I think that is a HUGE factor in the child's response.

But, I'll try. I HAVE had children attempt to hit me before. The same children who I have seen hit their parents have TRIED to hit me. It has never failed, that I have seen it coming. The child gets upset over something trivial and lashes out.....I have managed to always catch the child's hand midair, give them a stern look, a deep voice "you will NOT hit me, I don't hit YOU, you will NOT hit me" Crying and REMORSE for their action has ALWAYS ensued.

THEN, I have used the incident to EDUCATE the parent. This is what happened. this is what I have observed between you and your child. This is what I will NOT tolerate. If I see your child hit you again, I will know that you have done nothing to prevent it from happening and I will be FORCED to terminate services, as I will NOT have a child disrpespecting me or the other children in care.

And you know what? It has worked each and every time.

FTR, it has only happened a couple of times in 15 years.

Some of the children I thought would never last have become some of my very cherished children that I would die for.

I'm cringing as I type this because I don't like getting involved in heated discussions but I do have to say I agree with what Crystal has written. I have done the same with kids who have tried to hit me and it has worked as she's described it.

[Former Teacher]

Someone who comes here and namelessly, facelessly insults me and tells me I am wrong is NOT deserving of my respect.

oh please. i am supposed to play nice with someone that comes here and behind the "unregistered" name insults me? i think not.

unregistered might gain some respect if she'd own all of her posts with a name. I respect that Michael allows unregistered posting, but that doesn't mean i have to respect her.

[dEHmom]

I'm cringing as I type this because I don't like getting involved in heated discussions but I do have to say I agree with what Crystal has written. I have done the same with kids who have tried to hit me and it has worked as she's described it.

I agreed with Crystal as well. But as a provider, and business owner, I think we have every right to deal with the situation as we see fit. At the time, it was clear to this provider that this child was not a good fit, and was a danger to the other children. If a child raised their hand at me, if i was quick enough to catch it before it made contact, then great, i could deal with that differently. But if I was surprised by a child that managed to slap me across the face that is a whole different matter.

I would also like to point out, that this provider was obviously down at the child's level, in order for the child to make contact on the face. I could only imagine, this provider was speaking or trying to calm the child, when the child bombarded her with a crack on the face.

Once again, I agree with what Crystal has been saying, other than maybe the way some of her posts came across. But we weren't there, we don't know the vibe this child gave off. I'm sure this provider could tell it was a behavioural issue and not a "stressed" issue.

[e.j.]

I agreed with Crystal as well. But as a provider, and business owner, I think we have every right to deal with the situation as we see fit. At the time, it was clear to this provider that this child was not a good fit, and was a danger to the other children. If a child raised their hand at me, if i was quick enough to catch it before it made contact, then great, i could deal with that differently. But if I was surprised by a child that managed to slap me across the face that is a whole different matter.

I would also like to point out, that this provider was obviously down at the child's level, in order for the child to make contact on the face. I could only imagine, this provider was speaking or trying to calm the child, when the child bombarded her with a crack on the face.

Once again, I agree with what Crystal has been saying, other than maybe the way some of her posts came across. But we weren't there, we don't know the vibe this child gave off. I'm sure this provider could tell it was a behavioural issue and not a "stressed" issue.

No argument here. I think you make valid points. In general, I think when we're dealing with young kids, we need to keep in mind that our own responses to their poor behavior can often help to either escalate the situation or diffuse it. I wasn't there to see what happend but from the sounds of it, it sounds like there was a lot of emotion involved and in my experience, that almost always helps to escalate the situation.

I think if a child care arrangement isn't working for whatever reason, a provider absolutely has the right to end it. For me.... before I make the decision to terminate, I try to take a few steps back. When I'm calmer, I look at the situation as objectively as possible and ask myself if there were ways I could have handled it better or differently. If the answer is yes, I keep trying. If the answer is no, I terminate. (I've only terminated once in all the time I've been doing child care.) In my opinion, termination needs to be handled in a professional manner, though, and the less emotion involved, the better. Again, just my opinion. What works for me doesn't necessarily work for others.