Operating an Unlicensed Daycare

[daycare provider]

I just turned in a resident in my town for operating an unlicensed daycare - I inspect daycares in Massachusetts as part of my job. This woman and her husband own a nice home and have two college kids. He, the husband works outside the home, full-time and she has five or six unrelated daycare kids at her house full time, Monday thru Friday. She has a pool, not fenced in and an unfenced yard.

Here in Mass., daycare rules are very strict, for a reason - the state runs Cori and Sori checks, inspects playground equipment - pools, everything! In Mass you also have to carry hefty liability insurance which is expensive. The State promptly came to her house and shut her down. (I knew she was unlicensed because I did my homework and called the State first) I hope she incurred a hefty fine as well. Who in their right mind would run an unlicensed daycare and care for other's children? Full-time daycare in Mass. runs $300 and up per child - I'd like to make about 60 to 70K, tax free, per year.

My son, who is in college, pays 43k per year to go to school - my husband and I have taken out huge loans to help him out and we both work full time and pay huge taxes. It's called greed, plain and simple and a lot of people think they are above the law. Shame on the parents of these children, as well, for not checking to see if this daycare was licensed in the first place. I stewed for about a year about this before I called the state. There is no excuse for this.

First, I agree with prior poster. Job Security (maybe nosey nelly wanna be do gooder)

Anyways, Your son's college.... Your issue and no one else's. This has nothing to do with the situation or your job. Stupid comment that's all

Second, did you do "your homework" with the IRS?? How do you know she doesn't report it? I was unregistered for years. Guess what. It was all reported. I am now registered and .... Guess what?? It's still reported, but who exactly is making me?? The IRS doesn't know I am registered if I don't tell them so paying taxes has nothing - absolutely NOTHING to do with being registered or not.

There are deadbeats that work "real" jobs that don't pay taxes because they have judgements or just don't feel like paying. So don't make this out to be about freakin taxes and college.

Grow up... Some professional. By the way, it's people like you that keep people from becoming registered.

[gbcc]

First, I agree with prior poster. Job Security (maybe nosey nelly wanna be do gooder)

Anyways, Your son's college.... Your issue and no one else's. This has nothing to do with the situation or your job. Stupid comment that's all

Second, did you do "your homework" with the IRS?? How do you know she doesn't report it? I was unregistered for years. Guess what. It was all reported. I am now registered and .... Guess what?? It's still reported, but who exactly is making me?? The IRS doesn't know I am registered if I don't tell them so paying taxes has nothing - absolutely NOTHING to do with being registered or not.

There are deadbeats that work "real" jobs that don't pay taxes because they have judgements or just don't feel like paying. So don't make this out to be about freakin taxes and college.

Grow up... Some professional. By the way, it's people like you that keep people from becoming registered.

Another well said point

[HappyCamper]

Unlicensed care...

I have to pipe in here...

Although I've been a registered provider since 2008, I worked for many, many years as an unlicensed provider because I chose to only watch 1 to 3 children at a time. During this time, even though it wasn't required, I received my infant/child CPR certification, Food Handler's certification, was cleared by the criminal data base, and took
continuing education classes in child development. I did this because I wanted to give the best service possible.

So... The moral of the story is... There are many unlicensed providers who pay taxes and give premium service (as I did). On the other hand, there are many UP's who don't follow any health and/or safety guildlines and those are the ones to steer clear of.

[Crystal]

Hi everyone! My name is Crystal. I realize I am new here, and I do not mean to offend anyone, but I'd like to share a story, that explains why I consider a license to be pertinent.

When I opened my program 13 years ago, I went through the licensing process. I knew a lady down the street from my home who, at the same time, chose to operate an unlicensed program, which is against regs here in Ca. unless care is only for one family. I chose to mind my own business, I knew her, she seemed like a fine person, as did her (what I thought was) husband, who did some volunteer work for the elementary school that my children were attending. I did lose out on a couple of potential clients, who decided that cheaper was the way to go, but I figure those parents were only thinking about the bottom line, so I probably didn't want them as clients anyway. She ran her business there for about three years, until one day I noticed helicopters flying overhead. This woman, who I never had an issue with, who seemed to be doing all the right things, had alot to hide, hence the reason for not being licensed. The man living in her home had been molesting her daughter (with Mom's knowledge) and had been molesting two three year olds attending her program for some time. He also had several prior felony convictions for drugs and assault charges and the provider herself had done jail time for other offenses. The man is now serving 25 years to life and she did time as well for not preventing it from happening.

I have kicked myself for years over not reporting her unlicensed program to licensing. I COULD have prevented children from being molested, but I chose to "look the other way" because her unlicensed program was "none of my business". In some regard, I have always felt responsible for what occurred in that home.

That being said, of course there are many, many unlicensed programs that go above and beyond. But without that background check, how do we TRULY know that the people operating these programs are who they say they are? Is it a gut instinct that parents should have about the person they are interviewing?

I will NEVER look the other way again. If I EVER come across an unlicensed program, it will immediately be reported, regardless of how clean their home is, how nice they seem to be, or whether or not I "see" any violations other than not having a license. As they say "never judge a book by it's cover" and I think that applies here.

[gbcc]

Crystal, I understand your point and your concern. However, it is still very possible for that senerio to happen in a registered home. At least in my state. It is up to you to state who resides in your home. You could easily not disclose that information. No one has ever inspected my entire home. They only inspect the area that the children will be playing in. I could have someone move in and store their stuff in my bedroom (not that I would) and never disclose to the registrar that someone was living with me.

Also, as stated before in this tread or another thread (I cant remember). I think a good example out of your story is that cheaper is not always the answer. Parents are all about rates that it is hard to see past the money aspect. Maybe she had a good program, I don't know but chances are she was choosen only because she was cheap. It's aweful those children went through that.

[jen]

Hey Crystal! I hear you and I understand how you feel but really it was the parent's responsiblity to ensure that a background check was performed. Just because a provider is unlicensed doesn't mean a parent can't run the appropriate checks. They can and they certainly should.

Here is another story of a LICENSED home in my area. A licensed daycare provider in a very nice area was running a meth lab out of her daycare. Turns out her brother had been release from prison and moved in with her. She obviously chose not to inform licesning of the change in living arrangements. http://www.methpedia.org/news.php?id=565

Anyway, my point is this. A licensed daycare operator who wants to get around the rules, can find a way. People do it all the time and while being licensed may be a slight deterrant it is in no way a sure thing. You could have reported, and maybe it would have been stopped but more than likely she wouldn't have told them that the boyfriend lived there and just gone ahead and gotten her license based on lie. I'm sure it happens all the time.

[Carole's Daycare]

Hey Crystal! I hear you and I understand how you feel but really it was the parent's responsiblity to ensure that a background check was performed. Just because a provider is unlicensed doesn't mean a parent can't run the appropriate checks. They can and they certainly should.

Here is another story of a LICENSED home in my area. A licensed daycare provider in a very nice area was running a meth lab out of her daycare. Turns out her brother had been release from prison and moved in with her. She obviously chose not to inform licesning of the change in living arrangements. http://www.methpedia.org/news.php?id=565

Anyway, my point is this. A licensed daycare operator who wants to get around the rules, can find a way. People do it all the time and while being licensed may be a slight deterrant it is in no way a sure thing. You could have reported, and maybe it would have been stopped but more than likely she wouldn't have told them that the boyfriend lived there and just gone ahead and gotten her license based on lie. I'm sure it happens all the time.

Licensing is certainly not a guarantee of quality. I am & have always operated as a licensed daycare, but used both licensed and unlicensed providers when my teenage daughter was young.he unlicensed one was a horrible experience. She sat on her but in front of the TV doing nothing- and I found my 3 yr old playing in the street unsupervised. The provider blamed the child for being naughty, I was appalled. I had done background checks and she and her spouse had no record, she was just lazy and stupid, and I settled because I was in a hurry to find care so I could keep my job. I reported her , and she subsequently became licensed! I hope her quality improved. Every states rules vary regarding the operation of unlicensed care- here it is one family in addition to your own family members. That can still be a large number of children, if one non related family has 2 or 3 kids and you watch several nieces and nephews plus your own. Licensing is expensive yet does little to ensure quality care- many providers barely passed english yet are expected to be your childs primary language influence. Unlicensed care flourishes because these providers are willing to cut rates operating off the books so its cheaper, but they dont incure the costs of training and facility maintenance that a licensed provider does. As long as families are more worried about money than quality they will continue to operate under the radar and unknown to county oversight. The end result is those poor quality facilities make a negative reputation for the profession as a whole, making it difficult for licensed providers to charge a reasonable rate given the overhead costs, or get treated as professionals. That said- the first poster seems to have some personal beef- maybe angry because she cant afford a pool? You seem to focus a lot of vitriol regarding your unhappy finances and life on one misinformed daycare- who probably does pay taxes and may have been watching one or two families and her own and needed simply to be made aware her pool should be fenced in. As for your insane idea that we make tons of money- after my elec and water bill that are twice as high, my exhorbitant grocery bill, the huge cost of daycare insurance, the cost of high quality preschool curriculum and supplies, the constant repair and maintenance of home and yard and replacement of equipment I average considerably less than a county worker for my 5:30 am to6:00 pm workday, not counting all the time to clean, sterilize, do lesson plans, attend required training etc.

[Crystal]

Agreed that any licensed provider can hide things, agreed that licensed does not always mean better, BUT, the probability of a licensed provider hiding things, over the unlicensed provider who did not get licensed BECAUSE they have things to hide is less likely.

The point I was making in my previous post is that I am not ever going to take that chance again, and I have no concerns whatsoever about competition, I am a highly qualified and well regarded professional in my area and my program operates with a waitlist....in fact I'll be the first provider to refer potential clients to my competition if i know they are on the up and up.

[mac60]

Quote from Carole's Daycare "Unlicensed care flourishes because these providers are willing to cut rates operating off the books so its cheaper, but they dont incure the costs of training and facility maintenance that a licensed provider does. As long as families are more worried about money than quality they will continue to operate under the radar and unknown to county oversight. The end result is those poor quality facilities make a negative reputation for the profession as a whole, making it difficult for licensed providers to charge a reasonable rate given the overhead costs, or get treated as professionals."

As an unlicensed provider, I find your theory false and demeaning to many of us providers. I provide a high quality program, I do not cut rates and I do not operate off the books. And other than not paying licensing fees, I too incur the same cost as a licensed provider. Please don't put all unlicensed providers in your generalizations.

[AfterSchoolMom]

I'm going to put myself out there and tell you all that I am not licensed. I do before and after school care only, and in my state you can have up to five unrelated school aged children without being licensed. However, I do pay taxes, I keep my home immaculate, and both my husband and myself have had voluntary background checks done - in fact, my husband has a security clearance for his job. I have a college degree and I am CPR certified. Even though the youngest child in my home is 6 years old, I still keep the chemicals locked up, the garbage covered, the water temp kept at a safe level, and even the outlets plugged, among other safety measures. We even do a fire drill once per month! I do these things because not only do I take pride in what I do, but because I have my own children as well and want to provide the best care for them that I can.

I'm absolutely not saying all of this to "toot my own horn", but rather to stand up for those of us who visit and love this forum and the information and support that we get here, yet on the other hand are made to feel like substandard providers because we don't have a license, including the OP's neighbor - unless the OP has first hand knowledge and proof that this provider is substandard, neglectful, etc...I agree that it would be be better to just try to have a conversation with them neighbor to neighbor. Though I think that the neighbor issues and the childcare issues should be seperate anyway.

[jen]

I'm going to put myself out there and tell you all that I am not licensed. I do before and after school care only, and in my state you can have up to five unrelated school aged children without being licensed. However, I do pay taxes, I keep my home immaculate, and both my husband and myself have had voluntary background checks done - in fact, my husband has a security clearance for his job. I have a college degree and I am CPR certified. Even though the youngest child in my home is 6 years old, I still keep the chemicals locked up, the garbage covered, the water temp kept at a safe level, and even the outlets plugged, among other safety measures. We even do a fire drill once per month! I do these things because not only do I take pride in what I do, but because I have my own children as well and want to provide the best care for them that I can.

I'm absolutely not saying all of this to "toot my own horn", but rather to stand up for those of us who visit and love this forum and the information and support that we get here, yet on the other hand are made to feel like substandard providers because we don't have a license, including the OP's neighbor - unless the OP has first hand knowledge and proof that this provider is substandard, neglectful, etc...I agree that it would be be better to just try to have a conversation with them neighbor to neighbor. Though I think that the neighbor issues and the childcare issues should be seperate anyway.

I am a licensed provider, although in the past I have operated as unlicensed. I couldn't agree with you more. I provided equally good care regardless of my licensing status! Not all of us feel about unlicensed providers as some. Personally, if I didn't need to be licensed, I wouldn't.

[Carole's Daycare]

You are way out of line. Just b/c she is inlicsenced it does not mean that she is not followign safety guidlines. There are many licsenced centers that do not follow proper safety codes. It needs to be the responsibility of the parents and the daycare provider. Unless there is abuse or neglect, it should not involve the neighbor.
You should not speculate the reasons of someone who would choose to not become licsenced. You do not know her situation. Perhaps she is just starting out. You are probably unaware but it takes a lot of time and money to become licsenced. The pay is not consistant, and after taking care of expenses it is not as much as you would think. Very few people have the time and money to become licsenced before starting to get families in their daycare. I run a home daycare.I am not licsenced, for a few diff reasons. One is that the work hasn't been consistant enough for me to take the time and spend the money needed to become licsenced. Another reason is that I only plan on being a provider for a few years , until my kids go back to school. And the biggest reason is that None of my parents give a hoot. THey all love me, and it is because I know what I am doing, and they know they can trust me.

Sorry, but if you are operating a "legal" unlicensed daycare, than it's no big deal if someone stops by for a quick visit to make sure. Licensed daycares get unnanounced visits by licensing and food programs. If she's OK, then it was a 15 mn interuption. If not, some children were protected from sub-standard care. Licensing fees are not so high that they are prohibitive in most places, and the benefits financially far outweigh the cost. As a licensed provider you can accept payments from county assistance programs, and at a higher rate than unlicensed. You have to be licenced to participate in the food programs, which, for me at least, subsidize 1/2 or more of my food costs and provide a couple of hours per year of nutrition and USDA guideline training. All that's required is you maintain decent records (assuming you are a legit tax paying provider, you should be doing that), that you feed decent food (once again, a decent provider, unlicensed or not, does that) you maintain a clean home and safe food handling practices (once again...) and you get around 6 visits to your home per year from your food program as well as your licensing inspections. 1 month of food program reimbursement covers the most exhorbitant licensing fees, so no money for licensing is no excuse. My cost was about $190 for licensing and background checks. It took an hour or two of paperwork, completing some basic required trainings and a couple hours home visit and inspection with a licensor to get my license. I pay that $190 every other year. I have a college degree but I get 20-30 hs of continuing education/yr not counting First Aid & CPR, most of which costs $15-$30 per 2 hr class through local Child Care Resource & Referral- (available to LICENCED providers) If you are indeed doing everything appropriately, the only difference is a background check and some inspections to give everyone peace of mind. I have a hard time believing /trusting the good word of all these fabulous unlicensed providers with absolutely no verification- when it sounds like all that's keeping them unlicensed is a few bucks and being willing to have inspections. My cost was less than a video game system. If you have a Wii you can afford licensing. Having clients doesnt make you good. Their are plenty of loving but young or uneducated parents who don't understand what quality childcare is. Thats why we have licensing- for their children's sake. Improved quality and standards in Early Childhood Education, including daycare, will go a long way toward improving results in Elementary Schools and beyond. Even if someone is "nice", reasonably clean or well intentioned does not mean they should be providing childcare services. To have someone who has little education in child development, or even grasp of the english language or basic spelling be your childs primary influence during those crucial early years of development has significant consequences in the long run. It may be a parents responsibility, but ultimately it is society that suffers when childrens needs are not met, and children with parents unable or unwilling to make quality choices still deserve the best we can offer them.

[gbcc]

We all have our opinions, but honestly. If I could make money by not being registered I would not go through the hassel. In my state I can only have 2 children without being registered. I was much happier with my job prior to being registered. There is a lot of unneccassary paperwork. I do understand the safety issues. No complaint on that. But for instance immunizations. If a child has a birthday today and requires immunizations she can not come to care until they are done. Now my doctor wont give shots until the actual birthday. I would never spoil my child's birthday with shots, I don't know anyone that would. But my child could not attend care until the shots were done. That is rediculous. If you were to let them attend you will get a hit as being unsafe on the state website and also a fine. Yes immunizations are important but there should be a grace period. Another issue. My sub could not sub because she bounced a check in 1988. That is rediculous. What does that have to do with childcare? Plus it was 22 years ago. There are other issues I have with the state controlling what we do but I have rambled on enought. I am basically saying honestly if I had to do it all over again, I would have never become registered.

[Chickenhauler]

But for instance immunizations. If a child has a birthday today and requires immunizations she can not come to care until they are done. Now my doctor wont give shots until the actual birthday. I would never spoil my child's birthday with shots, I don't know anyone that would. But my child could not attend care until the shots were done. That is rediculous. If you were to let them attend you will get a hit as being unsafe on the state website and also a fine. Yes immunizations are important but there should be a grace period.

That's simple-find a doctor who doesn't have cranial-rectal insertion syndrome.

[Unregistered]

My next door neighbor appears to be operating an unlicensed daycare in a residential area of our sub-division. I know that unlicensed daycare operations can be legal under certain Indiana law requirements. Can you tell me what the law says about operating an unlicensed daycare in a residential area in the state of Indiana. Thank you.

It's not up to you to decide whether this person is capable or should be trusted to watch these children, you can have children in your home without a license. How many children may depend on your state, but it is legal. You are not the parent of any of the children and quite frankly it's not for you to judge. These parents have trusted this person with their children, therefore, this person must be doing an okay job. If not they wouldn't have so many kids.