Operating an Unlicensed Daycare

[Chickenhauler]

Psst-I'm going to let you in on a little secret that some here will maybe flame me on (flame suit zipped up tight) IN HOME DAYCARES PAY LITTLE TO NO TAXES.


Chickenhauler, I beg to differ. My husband claims 0 on his deductions AND pays an extra $100 /mo, PLUS we paid $3500 in April, all in taxes on my income. we are paying at a higher rate than if I was employed because self-employment taxes are higher than other rates. yes, I can write off part of my utilities, part of my mortgage interest, etc, but even with those and all the actual 100% business expenses (like infant toys- my youngest child is 14) I still paid an arm and a leg in tax this year
SOME OF US do things honestly

I do things honestly-my CPA knows the law, she's an expert at tax law. We have survived two audits in ten years, and no violations found. NOT A SINGLE ONE.

If you made some big bucks, then kudos to you.

But I'm betting you overpaid in taxes. I know all about self-employment taxes, I own my own business, along with the wife operating a daycare-we have no witholding in our household, since all income is derived from being self employed. With NO witholding, and gross sales rcpts exceeding 100k last year, we paid less in taxes than you, and it was all legit and honest.

You can automatically deduct ALL of your mortgage interest automatically, DC or not.

I have 2 dogs, and I do NOT write off my pet expenses and never have. I do take mileage, my husband mows the lawn, I clear the snow, we have not bought new furniture since I have been doing dc or new carpets. I do have a CPA that does my taxes, and I DON"T make big bucks. Hell, I only get $85 per child for a fulltime kid here, well I should say $80, $85 is my new rate coming up.

Your CPA has failed you greatly. Pets, snowblowers, lawnmowers, weedwhackers, even a snow shovel and salt/sand for the sidewalk, upkeep of those items and their fuel are all tax deductible since you are running a business out of your home.

Pets are a teaching aid-you can use them to teach children how to interact nicely with animals.

There is sooooo much tax code, deductions, exemptions, etc that are overlooked it's not even funny.

[FingerprintsHappen]

We didn't overpay in taxes. According to the Copeland daycare tax book (cant' remember the title) I took all the deductions I was entitled to. And I had to pay way more than any other year. And that in spite of taking the % on a new furnace, new hot water heater, other appliance repairs, etc. My furniture is all old. my tv is not used for daycare, so cable can't be claimed (it's never on during the daycare day) We mow and shovel ourselves...
I did make good money- living in one of if not THE highest priced area of the country (MA, about 30 min west of Boston) daycare is pricey. So I make out. Works for me- I pay my teenage daughters to assist, and have hired 2 employees for the summer/fall of this year.

[Ms.Sue]

no no no --- get your facts straight....

More children are hurt at licensed day care than at unlicensed day care.

First - what an uneducated statement to make, it's totally incorrect. Licensed daycares HAVE TO REPORT THEIR INJURIES --- UNLICENSED Never Do!!!
So, please stop with that statement.

Now, the 'piece' of paper generally adds to the true quality of a childcare business.
I have found in my 17 years of experience that people who do not bother to strive to reach other milestones in the childcare field - generally don't even meet the very basic standards.

With no license, there is no accountability! which equals Poor Safety Standards.
Now, granted - you will have a few that have unlicensed care and they are wonderful - but just think how much they could really improve and know how to communicate and relate to their customers - and run their businesses better.
Licensed daycare does not mean that all are 100% perfect. There are doctors that have 10 years of school and are awful, there are school principals that are arrested for sexual abuse - and they 'generally' have a masters degree........ good and bad is in ALL fields.

. .....Just because you have had someone from the state come in and tell you what needs to be done and how to run your business doesn't mean that all Unlicensed day care are bad or hurtful to children!!! .....

True, but ---- when you are held totally accountable and have to prove yourself and your business integrity to a state inspector --- you tend to make sure all food is properly balanced, tv is limited, preschool is taught, proper diaper changing procedures are followed, car seats are used, children are not left alone, children are not sleeping in room on other floors with out supervision, ratiio is addressed, medication is stored correctly and administered properly, the environment is clean and safe, and the provider's live-in boyfriend must have a back ground check to prove that they are not a sex offender - or their 18 year old son who lives at home !!! ((this happens all the time))).

So, that is just some of the ways that parents can be sure that these issues are addressed - correctly - by an outside inspector. It's best for the children --- it's not what's best for the insecure provider's ego.

[mac60]

The only things you mentioned that I don't deduct is my dog food and dog vet expenses. I will count those from now on.

[GretasLittleFriends]

Well said Ms. Sue!!


And just an FYI, you mentioned 18yr old child still living at home. Some states (such as Minnesota) require a background check for all people 13yrs of age and older living in the home and frequenting the home. My daughter is 13 and needed a background check. Also if she is going to have a friend over for any length of time or frequently they also have to have a background check. Fortunately I pay 1 fee for a 12 month period and that covers anyone and everyone that's checked in that 12 month period. I feel kind of bad explaining this policy to my daughter's friends' parents but they all have been understanding and appreciate the precautionary steps the state follows. Unlicensed homes in MN don't have to follow this requirement. Who knows who is in the homes when the children are present?!?!

[mac60]

See, this is where I disagree. If I have to submit my family, their friends, and anyone else who may be a constant visitor to my home to a background check, it is only FAIR that each and every daycare parent, their family members if they ever step foot into my home, and any other family member or friend of theirs who may pick up their child on my property...THEY SHOULD BE FORCED TO GO THRU THE SAME BACKGROUND CHECKS. It is not fair to force these rediculous things onto just the provider, as many other people...meaning parents.....walk into my front door daily.

And as far as reporting accidents at a daycare center....they do NOT have to, as my own child when he was 3 got his hand ran over and I was called, left work, and had to take him to the doctor for treatment....and I even got to pay the bill. So not every state is the same. And in my area, if you take your child to the doctor for an injury and submit it to your insurance, your insurance will contact you and ask how and where it will happen, and follow thru. It happened with my own son, an injury.

[mac60]

With no license, there is no accountability! which equals Poor Safety Standards.

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY POSITIVIELY AN UNTRUE STATEMENT.

I think there is a lot of hostility here towards those of us who do not have to be licensed by those of you who do. Sad, but true.

I would NEVER, REPEAT NEVER, do this job and be controled by the government. Hell, they do a horrendous job as it is without getting their nose in my affairs. I have parents in and out of my home all day, many times unannounced....they see my home, what we do, they know what their child eats each day, etc. Please don't judge the unlicended providers unless you know us personally. You have absolutely no idea what kind of environment we are providing, activities, etc.

[stimpson]

This Thread is Going in a Bad Direction

Have you all looked closely at some of the rants in this "conversation"?
Here is what I see:
It seems someone is irritated because her next-door neighbors home daycare business is causing traffic issues (and perhaps other issues) that she feels she should not have to contend with. So, rather than doing the civilized thing and walking over one day after care hours are over and politely addressing her concerns with them and trying to reach a compromise that everyone can live with, instead, we are going to see if we can "get them in trouble" with authorities.
Let's stop right there. Everything else is incidental and doesn't really have anything to do with the root cause of this whole thing. Licensed, unlicensed, laws, taxes, abuse, etc. is not really what any of this is about.
This is what it's about: Two wrongs don't make a right.
If the providers business is causing legitimate issues for her neighbor, that's wrong. If the neighbor is attempting to remedy that wrong by causing problems for the provider with authorities, that is also wrong. So, instead of ending up with a situation where everyone feels they've been dealt with fairly and they both work together to solve the problem, they end up with an angry mess that likely festers, gets worse, and ends up causing MORE problems or costing someone money or income.
C'mon folks! Doesn't anyone here see the forest instead of that big fat tree in the way?

There's always light at the end of the tunnel. The hard part is determining if that light is on the front of a locomotive.

[GretasLittleFriends]

I agree with Ms. Sue about the safety standards because I did provide care for my family and though I thought my house was safe there were all kinds of things that I had missed out on until the county came through. I however think that the "poor safety standards" are by NO means intentional. One example was the water temp was set too high.

Mac60- I agree with you about how ridiculous it is that my family and their friends who are here frequently have to be subjected to a background check. When I asked the county why not the kids' parents too, the licensor's response was that the parents typically just drop off and pick up where the friends and family members are in the house for long periods with the children. These laws are in place to protect the children, simply because they hadn't been in place and children were hurt/abused.

[GretasLittleFriends]

Oh, I forgot, I was also going to say that though I'm licensed, I'm not hostile (or don't intend to be) towards unlicensed daycares. Perhaps I'm slightly jealous that I am only able to take care of one family without my license, unlike some of you that can take care of up to 5+ kids without a license. I'll be honest. If that were the case for me, I'd likely not be licensed either. I agree the government getting involved can and does make it to be much more of a headache. I got my license for a few reasons. One is to be able to stay at home with my own children while they are growing up. Two is to provide quality care for more than just the one child (one family) I was taking care of. Three is because I love watching kids learn and grow. Fourth is to be able to afford to stay home with my children.

I do agree that unlicensed providers can and do provide excellent care, just like licensed providers can also be totally horrendous. I've recently had two families start up with me because their previous licensed providers where not children friendly at all. Sad thing is that these families came from two different providers. I live in a rural area, and for two providers to be uncaring is kind of frightening

[Chickenhauler]

Those of you who are unlicensed, how often do you have a water test performed? One of the overlooked things that licensed providers must pass, along with a background check (could be a pedo living in that DC home), water temp test, etc.

Here's another big question-how many unlicensed providers carry the necessary insurance coverage for operating a dc business out of their homes? You do know that in most states, if you operate a business like this out of your home, you are opening yourselves to large amounts of liability, and without the proper coverage, your homeowners can not only cancel coverage, but refuse to pay any claims in the DC because you were not insuring a business?

[mac60]

I am insured. We have city water and I know it is tested regularly.

Your dc parent could be a pedo too! Did you have background checks done on your parents?

[tymaboy]

I am Registered. In my area registered is in home child care & licensed is a facility. In my opinion being registered does not mean that I am the safer bet for the children. It is more for the parent thought of mind. It does not matter that I jump threw hoops to keep my registration number if I am the type of person to harm a child in any way it will happen whether I am registered or not. Pretty much the only thing that is different is that I have surprise inspections atleast once a yr & that I qualify for the food program & some grants that I would not if I was not registered. Being registered is just a false security for the parents. If I was not registered I would not have to take 12 or more hrs of classes a yr to keep my registration. I would still be the same type of provider thta I am now.

[Chickenhauler]

I am insured. We have city water and I know it is tested regularly.

Your dc parent could be a pedo too! Did you have background checks done on your parents?

The big question is, are the DC parents left unattended with other DC children? They aren't in our home.

That's the underlying reason for the background checks.

DC Licensing is like driver licensing and testing-95% will pass, but it weeds out the unfit ones from putting people in danger.

[Unregistered]

I am a licensed provider and have been for 12 years and the things that make me upset about unlicensed provider's are that they take away the children that we could get as children. When you loose a family and need to replace that income alot of times people go to unlicensed providers because they will charge less. They do not have all the fees or classes that a licensed provider has to take. As a unlicensed provider they are only allowed to watch children from one family and they can still have up to 8 children as long as they are from one family and you can only have 2 children under the age of 2 and the number's are in total including your own children 8. 6 full time children 2 before and after school children except in the summer. I agree people should mind thier own business if there is no harm to the children, but without asking questions or seeing it first hand how are you to know. If it is an unlicensed daycare or licensed either way you never know how your children are being treated because you are not there to see it. You as a parent have to use common sense and gut feeling's when choosing a provider. Always get referrals and you can call the state and get background checks. Licensed providers have to give their fingerprints when they get licensed. Just remember that the children should always come first. They are the priority not your neighbor. So if they are illegal or harming the children yes they should be turned in. But if they are doing it the right way then leave them alone. As far as taxes you do not know if they are claiming or not so you have no right to complain unless you know they are'nt. But remember you chose to get licensed and pay your taxes to do it the legal way.