Operating an Unlicensed Daycare

[AmandasFCC]

Seashell, you're right, those are ridiculous rules. Maybe where Chickenhauler's at, licensing is a little more reasonable. I know here they seem to have a bit more common sense and to me, it made more sense to get licensed. As we've seen in a million posts before, licensing varies from place to place....

I personally like the idea of being licensed. I like being regulated. I'm a very rule oriented person, a little crazy maybe, but I like to have specific guidelines to operate by and to be checked up on, just to have that "Ok, for sure I'm doing alright" .... My daycare parents don't seem to care either way, it's more just for my own knowledge.

Everyone's different. I agree with you that we all have to agree to disagree. What works for me may not work for you.

And just another point... Whereas a lot of you have common sense in terms of regulations and will naturally do what is right and makes sense, a lot of others don't, and that's why I DO very much agree with licensing

[mac60]

Name some that you find stupid.

The irony is, that in one post, you will complain about how parents are crappy parents and don't even bother to dress their kids properly for the conditions, but then say how it's the parent's responsibility to insure that their daycare is safe.

For all the checks and inspections we have gone through with the county, we'd spend 6-8 hours going through the house, and several weeks waiting on the background checks that each family would perform when they enroll.

Sorry, I don't ever recall saying my dc kids came dressed inappropriately. Like I have said, I can understand how frustrating it is to be a provider and have to be licensed. The government should not be a part of a parent's decision on who cares for their child.

[Chickenhauler]

Stupid rule 1 - We need to have thermometers on the wall in each room occupied by the children at their hight, (3 feet max hight) to measure the temperature. Excuse me? Do you know how hard it is to keep the kids from pulling a glass and mercury thermometer off the wall and chewing on it? I tried hiding them behind the furniture. No deal. They have to be in clear sight. Is the temp that much cooler than it would be 2 feet higher?

Stupid rule 2 - Doors must be labled with exit signs. First of all, this is my home. Second of all, the kids can't read. 3rd if I don't know where the doors are in my own home, I'm in big trouble!

Stupid rule 3 - Cleaning supplies can not be kept in rooms occupied by the children. So how the hell am I supposed to disinfect the diaper table after use if I can't keep the solution near the changing table?

Stupid rule 4 - Trash cans can be no more than half full. Great, so I should leave the kids alone to take out the trash half way through the day? The cans have covers on them. Who gives a damn how much is in the can if the kids can't get at it?

Stupid rule 5 - Children must wear shoes and sox at all times. Yeah, you tell that to the 10 month old baby who is facinated with pulling them off or the 3 year olds who like to show off their painted toe nails.

Stupid rule 6 - My 17 year old son can't have friends over after school because they count toward my ratio?

Chickenhauler, why can't you just agree to disagree? It's a matter of personal opinion. I think your crazy for being licensed and you think Im crazy for not being licensed. Fine. It's a matter of opinion here based upon experience.

I respect your opinions on most matters, but you really seem to have it in for those of us who think the government is to involved.

Out of that entire list, there are only two we have to comply with is the cleaning supplies, but they have to stored out of reach or in a locked (keyed) cabinet. Out of reach means overhead, like the height of the upper kitchen cabinets.

Our trash cans have to have covers, also.

[sarahtheresa02]

This topic really has me going...

I am an unlicensed care provider. I am "allowed" by our state to care for 6 or less children without being required to obtain a license. I have 6 children in my care. They are not all here at the same time so I don't feel that I am in a position to be overwhelmed or taking on too much.

I do believe that licensed or unlicensed should not be an issue between providers. I do however believe that it SHOULD be an issue for parents. I want to share a little story...

I received a phone call from a couple looking for childcare for their 16 mo old daughter. They were conducting multiple interviews with providers and wanted to set up a time to come over. The mom said that she had many questions but wanted to discuss them in person. That I understand as I wouldnt want to waste my time asking questions to find that the person lives in a dump. Anyway... mom and dad and baby arrived at my house. First question they ask is if I was state certified. I said that I was not. She said that was very important to them. However they allowed the interview to continue. They took a tour of my home... not just the daycare portion. They met my husband and children. I gave them a copy of my handbook with references and they left saying they would let me know either way. I didn't expect to see them again.

They called me back a week later and said that if I still had a spot they would like to enroll their daughter. I said I still had a position and they started her the next Monday. Out of curiosity on her first day I asked her parents why they had chosen me over the other providers. Her father said they had interviewed about 15 providers licensed and otherwise and were most satisfied with my home. They said it was cleaner then most of the other places and and our family was very inviting and they felt comfortable and "at home". Licensing became a moot point for them.

Long story short Parents take their kids where they are most comfortable and where they feel that their kids will get the best care.

** One other point... someone said that licensed facilities receive more complaints and have more reported incidents of abuse, neglect blah blah blah than unlicensed facilities... this is true only because you can not report what you are not aware of and since they are unlicensed there is no way to accurately make an estimate**

Anyway.. enough of my rant.

[Unregistered]

unlicensed and licensed

I just had to write a note saying how funny it is that this discussion has been going on for over a year on this board. This will be debated till the end of time. I am a licensed daycare provider but I know and even give out some names of unlicensed providers. I am concerend only for the welfare of the children. I am not in any way mad or upset that someone is not licensed. I go with the its not your concern unless they are breaking the laws in your state. If they are then call the proper authorities and be done with it. Needless bickering is for children and not for grown adults.

[Unregistered]

Massachusetts unlicensed daycares

I just turned in a resident in my town for operating an unlicensed daycare - I inspect daycares in Massachusetts as part of my job. This woman and her husband own a nice home and have two college kids. He, the husband works outside the home, full-time and she has five or six unrelated daycare kids at her house full time, Monday thru Friday. She has a pool, not fenced in and an unfenced yard.

Here in Mass., daycare rules are very strict, for a reason - the state runs Cori and Sori checks, inspects playground equipment - pools, everything! In Mass you also have to carry hefty liability insurance which is expensive. The State promptly came to her house and shut her down. (I knew she was unlicensed because I did my homework and called the State first) I hope she incurred a hefty fine as well. Who in their right mind would run an unlicensed daycare and care for other's children? Full-time daycare in Mass. runs $300 and up per child - I'd like to make about 60 to 70K, tax free, per year.

My son, who is in college, pays 43k per year to go to school - my husband and I have taken out huge loans to help him out and we both work full time and pay huge taxes. It's called greed, plain and simple and a lot of people think they are above the law. Shame on the parents of these children, as well, for not checking to see if this daycare was licensed in the first place. I stewed for about a year about this before I called the state. There is no excuse for this.

[GretasLittleFriends]

Ok, I realize that this person is unregistered and they chose to hide behind that label for a reason. I do find my self frustrated with this post. I am licensed and have mixed feelings about being licensed.

1.I just turned in a resident in my town for operating an unlicensed daycare - I inspect daycares in Massachusetts as part of my job. This woman and her husband own a nice home and have two college kids. He, the husband works outside the home, full-time and she has five or six unrelated daycare kids at her house full time, Monday thru Friday. She has a pool, not fenced in and an unfenced yard. 2.Here in Mass., daycare rules are very strict, for a reason - the state runs Cori and Sori checks, inspects playground equipment - pools, everything! In Mass you also have to carry hefty liability insurance which is expensive. The State promptly came to her house and shut her down. (I knew she was unlicensed because I did my homework and called the State first) 3.I hope she incurred a hefty fine as well. 4.Who in their right mind would run an unlicensed daycare and care for other's children? 5.Full-time daycare in Mass. runs $300 and up per child - I'd like to make about 60 to 70K, tax free, per year. 6.My son, who is in college, pays 43k per year to go to school - my husband and I have taken out huge loans to help him out and we both work full time and pay huge taxes. 7.It's called greed, plain and simple and a lot of people think they are above the law. 8.Shame on the parents of these children, as well, for not checking to see if this daycare was licensed in the first place. 9.I stewed for about a year about this before I called the state. There is no excuse for this.

1.I find it very hard to believe that any person now a days has a pool that is not fenced in an unfenced yard. That is merely a law suit waiting to happen. Not to mention every neighborhood critter would be in that pool. Although, wondering if this is a technicality. I too have a pool and an unfenced yard. My pool at the deepest isn't even 8 inches. We have a yard that is over 5 acres, and the play area is behind the house which is over 100 yards from the road.

2.What are Cori and Sori checks? Most states require you to carry daycare liability insurance in order to be licensed. And honestly it's not that expensive. I paid less than $300 for a very large detailed policy.

3.It is not very nice of you to wish ill against someone else!! As a matter of fact, it seems rather childish.


4.Lots of people run unlicensed day-cares for others' children. When I used to live in Oregon I worked in a different town from where I lived. I had a friend who watched my daughter 3 days a week and I watched her three girls one day a week. It was a great barter. I wasn't licensed and neither was she.


5.How do you know they don't pay taxes? Do you work for the IRS? Have you audited them?

6.First off, congrats to your son for going to college. Lots of people go to college. The woman who's daycare you had shut down had TWO college aged children. There are ways to pay for college without taking out loans, believe me I know. I was a single mom, living on my own and managed to pay my own way through college without ever having to take out a single student loan. There are grants, scholarships, not to mention government/military benefits that are amazing. The military actually PAID me to go to college. When I factored in the GI bill along with the tuition reimbursement if I kept my grades above a C. Not only did it cover my tuition and book costs, I had extra money in my pocket. Plus I had a part-time job one weekend a month and two weeks a year. You shouldn't have to pay huge taxes at the end of the year if you have a good accountant. There should be education credits you qualify for, among other things. No pity from me to you.

7.I wouldn't call making a living greed. Well, maybe you're right, maybe it is greed, but no more so than the next person. It's the want of material items; a house, food, clothing, electricity. If one wasn't greedy and could learn to live without these things then they wouldn't have to work for that $$.

8.Apparently the parents felt their children were safe in this environment, otherwise they wouldn't have left them in that lady's care... I wouldn't shame the parents.


9.I would say shame on you instead. Why did it take you about a year to decide this wasn't a safe place for children. You said in the beginning that you inspect day-cares as part of your job. Wouldn't that require you to notify the state immediately if something was unsafe or there was a problem with a daycare?

Ugh!!!

[Former Teacher]

To Greta:

I TOTALLY agree with your post, (it would just make this reply to long haha).

Anyway I agree with you. However that is why from now on I am REFUSING to respond to people who are not registered. I have said it before, if they can't be bothered to sign in, I can't be bothered to deal with them either.

I think it's people like the OP who like to post things just to get us upset, aggravated, etc...just to see what we will say and how we will react. More or less to get a response from us.

That being said, I too have my own opinions and thoughts about that poster. However going back to my refusing to respond policy, I am keeping my mouth shut.

It's people like the OP that want to get a wile up our noses. Well they won't get one from me!

[GretasLittleFriends]

I didn't realize how long my reply was until just now when I scrolled back up.

[jen]

I didn't realize how long my reply was until just now when I scrolled back up.

LOL! Good for you! Well written! I was just going to say "get a life..."

Yours was much better!

[seashell]

CORI - Criminal Offender Record Information
SORI - Sex Offender Registry

[Chickenhauler]

I just turned in a resident in my town for operating an unlicensed daycare - I inspect daycares in Massachusetts as part of my job. This woman and her husband own a nice home and have two college kids. He, the husband works outside the home, full-time and she has five or six unrelated daycare kids at her house full time, Monday thru Friday. She has a pool, not fenced in and an unfenced yard.

Here in Mass., daycare rules are very strict, for a reason - the state runs Cori and Sori checks, inspects playground equipment - pools, everything! In Mass you also have to carry hefty liability insurance which is expensive. The State promptly came to her house and shut her down. (I knew she was unlicensed because I did my homework and called the State first) I hope she incurred a hefty fine as well. Who in their right mind would run an unlicensed daycare and care for other's children? Full-time daycare in Mass. runs $300 and up per child - I'd like to make about 60 to 70K, tax free, per year.

My son, who is in college, pays 43k per year to go to school - my husband and I have taken out huge loans to help him out and we both work full time and pay huge taxes. It's called greed, plain and simple and a lot of people think they are above the law. Shame on the parents of these children, as well, for not checking to see if this daycare was licensed in the first place. I stewed for about a year about this before I called the state. There is no excuse for this.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you did this for job security purposes.

You inspect licensed daycares for a living, and you narced on an unlicensed daycare?

Yup, selfish personal interest.

And as far as you taking out huge loans to pay for your kids $43k per year schooling.....that's a personal problem. I don't see how that relates the the safety of an unlicensed daycare. Once again, selfish personal interest/jealousy.

The un-fenced pool.....that's not cool....but then again, even in our extremely rural area, we have laws regarding pools and restricting access, even if you don't have a daycare.

[tinytotzdaycare]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you did this for job security purposes.

You inspect licensed daycares for a living, and you narced on an unlicensed daycare?

Yup, selfish personal interest.

And as far as you taking out huge loans to pay for your kids $43k per year schooling.....that's a personal problem. I don't see how that relates the the safety of an unlicensed daycare. Once again, selfish personal interest/jealousy.

The un-fenced pool.....that's not cool....but then again, even in our extremely rural area, we have laws regarding pools and restricting access, even if you don't have a daycare.

very well said chickenhauler!!

[Unregistered]

I was wondering if someone could help me find out what the regulations are for an unlicensed childcare provider in the state of NY. I've been trying to figure it out and keep coming to dead ends because everything I've found is about licensed care! I already do childcare but I've gotten so many contradictory answers from people on another site that I'm really confused now! I don't know where to turn. I want to be sure that I'm following my state's regulations properly.

I live in NY. The law says that if you are unlisenced you may not care for more than 2 unrelated children at one time. If you have 3 children in care, but only 2 at one time, that is legal. If it is family then you are allowed more, but need to apply as a legally exempt provider. I was unlisenced for many years and just recently became registered. I now can be a part of CACFP, where I get a large check per month to reimburse me for serving healthy meals. Call the child care council and they will give it to you straight. They are employed by OCFS.

[Unregistered]

My next door neighbor appears to be operating an unlicensed daycare in a residential area of our sub-division. I know that unlicensed daycare operations can be legal under certain Indiana law requirements. Can you tell me what the law says about operating an unlicensed daycare in a residential area in the state of Indiana. Thank you.

Are the children at risk? If not, mind your own business.

What goes around comes around, it always comes back.